all in one attachment? is it possible?

[boggen]

3pt hitch rear blade as the basic unit... and building up from there...

TNT (top n tilt) for 3pt hitch, to help feather out blade cutting and angling.

offset = ability to swing blade off to one side.
----hey i have this small size tractor (SCUT / maybe even a CUT), and the width of the unit vs implement i want to use, just don't match up. the implement ends up not as wide as the tractor... i need some help here?

adjust angling more than 3pt hitch allows = digging ditches better

abilty to swing blade around 360 degrees for going forward and dragging stuff, or swinging blade backwards to go in reverse to push stuff
---box blades, they have a front blade, and then some have a rear blade, and then a rear blade that swings up some when going forward.
is there a way to double blade a generic 3pt hitch rear blade?

side wings = like a box blade sides, that attach to edges of a rear blade. to help move dirt/rock, without the dirt/rock falling out the edges of the rear blade.
---is it possible to adjust the side wings angle of attack, so when ya dragging the rear blade at an angle to move dirt or rock from one side to the other side, say making a crown on a drive way?
---is it possible to adjust side wings so there are perpendicular (90 degrees) to the cutting edge of the rear blade, and then adjust them so they are parrallel to the cutting edge, in essence making a 4 foot blade into say a 5 foot 6 foot width blade? might be nice for a little bit of snow on ground, vs large amounts of snow. or doing a little extra width of smoothing out very top 1/2" to 1" of dirt in the yard... (wider blade = less down ward pressure)
---is it possible to flip these wings all the way back, behind the rear blade or something, so when ya don't need them they are pin to the rear blade, but when ya do need them. pull them off a holder and attach to the sides of the rear blade?

sacrificer teeth / rippers on a box blade = you can adjust up and down or completely remove if wanted. used to break up hard compacted dirt / gravel driveway. and then once ripped up using rear blade or box blade or other attachment. to smoothing things out... some of them have a shear bolt. so when ya catch a tree root or pavement or something, the bolt shears away, letting the ripper spin backwards and up and out of the way, vs doing damage to something.
---is it possible to add these rippers to back side of the rear blade? say one side is cutting edge, then spin blade around 180, and drop the teeth? or simply drop the teeth down from the backside of the blade?
---would the be better served in front of the rear blade? so the teeth / rippers break stuff up, and then the rear blade can smooth and shift the dirt around to some degree?

motor grader = a large distance between rear gauge wheels and rear tractor wheels. the long distance allows for removing the bigger dips in dirt lanes / gravel driveways.
---is it possible to undo a few bolts, slip in a longer piece between connection to 3pt hitch, and part of rear blade that allows it to spin and adjust angles... and then add some gauge wheels that stick further back behind the rear blade as in a few plus feet?
---is it possible to say use a regular bumper trailer, or a bumper pull behind sprayer, as the rear gauge wheels? easy adjustable tongue weight (add your own weight) on trailer, for extra weight on the blade, a pull behind sprayer = easy adjustable weight as well just add water. would something like a cheap generic version of a "weight distribution hitch" for bumper pull trailers and like work?

potatoe plow / subsoiler / single large ripper
---can i detach rear blade and insert a subsoiler? or use the middle ripper as in box blade rippers. and install a larger ripper?

york rake = kinda like a long handle manual garden rake but for a tractor...
is it possible to to swap out rear blade, for a set of tines?

dirt scoop = think FEL (front end loader bucket) but for 3pt hitch.
---is it possible to slide on a bottom to turn the rear blade with wings, into a dirt scoop? not real happy moving some dirt from one side of yard across driveway and onto other side. might be nice to move dirt in along trails. or remove dirt without dragging the dirt every were behind you like a box blade.
--- beside FEL (front end loader) bucket/s, backhoe bucket, and a 3pt hitch dirt scoop, there really is nothing else out there to dig into lift the material up so its no dragging all over the place... FEL's cost a pretty penny, not everyone has a FEL on there tractor...let alone a backhoe...
--- err i take above back, i want to say roll over box blade. but that technical name most likely wrong.

gauge wheels or shoes or feet = keeping blade up off a paved driveway or concrete without scratching it up or catching cracks
---beyond the motor grader idea above, just a simple set of guage wheels or like that set on the back side of the rear blade?

single gang disc harrow
---might be nice, have some ugly hills and ditchs i really can't drive up or down them and only along the side of them. might be nice to set the offset clear out. and drop the disc. to stir up the couple inches of soil, toss some grass seed down, then run back over with disc harrow, to get the seeds a little bit below the dirt.

drag harrow (think chain link fence)
---i get in trouble running over larger areas of yard, that does not include immediate area that i am trying to smooth and clear the large clumps out of.... can i toss a couple chains or perhaps bolt or pin, the front part of the drag harrow to the rear blade some how. and have a little extension off back, so when 3pt hitch raises up. it raises entire drag harrow / chain link fence up off the ground?
--- it might be nice to be able to angle the blade. so instead of having say a 6 foot wide drag harrow, after angling the rear blade it turns it into 4 foot.

adding extra weight....
---box blades tend to have more of a "shelf" on top of them to add concrete blocks, or a log across the top of it. even discs have some what of an arrow to add some extra weight.
---is there a way to add water? say, plug up all the ends of metal tubes/pipes that make this up, and weld in some bushings were holes for bolts or pins that may need to go through. and then weld on a garden hose adapter (one spot low to drain, one spot high to fill / allow air to escape).
---is there a metal pipe or rod. i could drop some concrete blocks over?
---is there a receiving hitch in the back, so i could slip in a hitch for some sort of carrier for a regular pickup truck, but add some weight that way?

============
nickle and dimed. vs quick hitch setups....
i pay for basic 3pt hitch connection, and a basic implement attached to connection points (rear blade, box blade, rake, etc...)
--- is it possible to have a "multi tool" style tool bar. that accepts generic doings? with minimal extra fuss? it may not be quick attach, but a few hundred bucks here and there for basic cheap implement, vs spending that hundred bucks, for say offset ability, multi angling ability. and can be re-purposed fairly easily, (undo some bolts / pins) and ready to go with next thing... *shrugs* i guess get a more expensive multi tool, that can be used on a wider variety of basic implements....
--- if i could buy some hyd cylinders... for just one multi tool. (hyd to raise/lower gauge wheels, angle everything like wanted... i could pull off rear blade for a york rake, and still have all my hyd cylinders to do all the fine tuning on the go. or adjust cultipaker, or disk harrow, or what not... ya it takes a little longer to change things out, but how much extra time would be saved, with the extra hydraulic cylinders that you could adjust everything on the fly? or perhaps some cash saved on basic multi tool without the hyd cylinders.

can i buy some "farm jacks" instead of hyd cylinders to use to adjust things? *ok that is far out there*

adding extra rear remotes to back of tractor....
---can i use a PTO hyd pump or like, and some electrical over hyd valves. on this multi tool, and then run what amounts to a corded remote control box up to the tractor seat? that has some dip switches on it?
--- perhaps only needing a standard rear remote on rear of tractor, with valve lever with detent position or bungie cord valve to on, and setting the extra electronic over hyd valves on the unit itself?

 

[boggen]

Everything Attachments XTreme Duty 6 way Tractor Scrape Blade
---side wings to turn rear blade into kinda of a box blade,
---offset blade, to toss blade clear out to one side
below image is from...Everything Attachments XTreme Duty 6 way Tractor Scrape Blade

see above link for extra pictures / videos

motor grader, errr bumper pull trailer with rear blade.
http://roadgradingschool.com/files/ROAD_GRADING_SCHOOL.pdf
below image is from...Trail'grader-The Portable Road Grader
View attachment 383079
below image is from...Trail'grader-The Portable Road Grader

below image is from...Trail'grader-The Portable Road Grader

see image from, for text that goes along with the diagrams/pictures.

some pictures of old and new motor garders / to pull behind graders
below image is from... http://honorsun.en.alibaba.com/prod...trailer_fixed_on_tractor_or_wheel_loader.html

below image is from...http://www.russianscalemodels.com/news.php?id=1100

below image is from...http://www.russianscalemodels.com/news.php?id=1100

below image is from...http://www.russianscalemodels.com/news.php?id=1078

below image is from... http://www.catmodels.com/products/K...oy-trailer-and-Cat-140-Motor-Grader-load.html


rear blade with possibly extending rear gauge wheel further back?
below image is from... http://www.landpride.com/products/128/rbt60-series-rear-blades


single gang disc harrow (flip over) if a bumper pull hitch could be used for attachment point...
below image is from...http://www.everythingattachments.com/King-Kutter-Flip-Over-Disc-p/kk-flip-over-disc.htm


cultipacker (for 4 wheeler) if a bumper pull hitch could be used for attachment point...
below image is from....https://www.kingkutter.com/store-product.aspx?id=3535


pull behind box scraper, can the wheels be extended further back for a motor grader effect?
below image is from...http://www.fastline.com/v100/2011-S...ail-42f67da7-a638-4cb0-b1a5-77e904c9a58a.aspx

 

[texasjohn]

Hard to have a multi purpose tool do any one job as well as a single purpose designed one. Doubtless, you could do all the things you mention given the design talent, mechanical capability, funds and time. It might meet your needs.... as a commercial venture, I doubt that people would be interested in it's complexity and flexibility. People generally want to keep things simple. This idea lets you hook up a 3pt implement once, then reconfigure, manually to meet the task at hand, lifting heavy components, redoing bolts, etc.....doing so likely would take more time than unhooking and reattaching a 3 pt implement. Just my thoughts.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Buy the right implements for each job, get a 3pt quick hitch and have all implements compatible. Done, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Texasmark]

Just remember that if you are going with a 3 pt, don't forget about ft-lbs. Farther it is from the lifting arms hookup sockets, the more the weight affects tractor handling, aka front tires off the ground or too light to be safe to control. 1# 10' out =10# 1' out sort of thing.

Quite a list of ideas. Your box blade comment will solve several of them that the plain blade won't. Other thing on operating a blade, like is used on commercial 6 wheel maintainers, is that the lateral forces on the blade at high angles especially, will work hard on your front end's ability to maintain steerability. The lighter the tractor and heaver the aggrigate against the blade, the worse is the effect. Adding weights out front will go a long way in mitigating these undesirable effects. I have made a skeleton frame attached to the front of the tractor and filled it with concrete (not cinder) blocks effectively. Cheap counter balance.

Mark

 

[bcp]

Would you like your only tool to be a Swiss Army knife?

It can do many things, but none of them well.

Swiss Army knife

Bruce

 

[boggen]

to lazy to copy past pictures and give references to each picture... so just giving links..
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ating-rock-rake-post2720950.html?#post2720950
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ll-type-scraper-post1349272.html?#post1349272
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...r-dirt-pan-towed-post3131619.html#post3131619
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...r-dirt-pan-towed-post3132070.html#post3132070
DR Power Grader
http://www.liveoutdoors.com/motorsports/109699-atv-accessories/

ok what the heck?!?!?
http://www.abiattachments.com/infield-groomer/infield-rascal-mvp/

metal matress spring
http://youtuberepeat.org/?videoId=Np0ku2r8GqI

home made hot water heater scrapper
http://youtuberepeat.org/?videoId=P9VDrGVOIlI

home made drag grader
http://youtuberepeat.org/?videoId=l3xfRwXBD4U

Yard Tuff Landscape Drag
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200418177_200418177

old rear tractor tire as a grader, then a couple other manufactured graders
http://gardentractortalk.com/forums...roomer-pics-or-build-plans/page-2#entry152011

flip over 3pt hitch box blade
http://gardentractortalk.com/forums...roomer-pics-or-build-plans/page-2#entry152176


driveway grader-groomer (looks to have an engine on it.
http://www.infield-drag.com/Driveways-Yards/driveways-yards.htm

land plane / grader different style yet
http://www.countrymanufacturing.com/land_plane.htm


2nd to 3rd post down diy grader L shape angle iron
http://www.michaelstractors.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5076

grooomer driveway
https://www.drivewaygroomer.com/Driveway-Groomers/

Jack Sawyer built pull-type 途oad grader hyd lift.
super duty width / length!
http://www.schowauction.com/101110.html

wagon running gear (other words a hay wagon, but without the actual lumber for a deck on it.
more intrested in how most running gear of this type you can adjust length between front and rear wheels, ((done before deck is put on))
http://www.americanlisted.com/kentu...on_running_gear_550_harrodsburg_15675939.html
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=implment&th=221939
http://shop.woodwardcrossingscountr...unning-Gears-w-60-w-570-8-4-Ply-Tires-260.htm
https://www.machinefinder.com/ww/en-US/machine/2244137
http://www.americanlisted.com/kentu...on_running_gear_450_harrodsburg_15678601.html

6 wheel running gear, 4 tires in rear, 1 set of turning tires in front...hhmsss
http://www.knowlesmfgco.com/products/tandems/tandems.htm
http://www.iowafarmequipment.com/horst_6wheel_rungear.html

extension for turning a 3pt hitch rear blade, into more of a "motor grader" were wheels are far spaced apart form the blade itself...
Small LogRite arch (dolly to lift logs up some, and drag them out of woods or onto a trailer)
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/moving-logs.103727/

**** ya, gauge wheel per say, fits between bumper hitch, and ball that goes to trailer, helps deal with extra loading i guess.
http://mrtrailer.com/hellya.htm

a few different builds / pictures of "extension hitches" to stick a bumper pull ball further out behind a truck. (possibly to jack knife a trailer into a tight fitting spot inside a garage? to other???
long initial page scroll down for a variety of pictures.
http://forums.woodalls.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/17969841/print/true.cfm
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/22234028/print/true.cfm

multi scrapper pan doings including some DIY
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/266836-diy-home-built-scraper-pan.html

grade master land plane scraper grader,,, looks like 1 blade, and a drag chain harow behind it.
a way to lift and lower drag chain harrow, has my intrest
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...veling-implement-post2314929.html#post2314929

home made ripper tooth
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/191377-homemade-bx25-ripper-tooth.html

rachet rakes (straps and tooth bar for FEL bucket) to snow blode edge, to
http://www.ratchetrake.com/

DIY Lightweight log dolly, welded with 120volt MIG
post 1 and 5 for pictures
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/315789-lightweight-log-dolly-welded-120volt.html

Inderesting rear blade attachment for "gradering"
metal bar out behind 3pt hitch grader blade
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...eresting-rear-blade-attachment-gradering.html

===============
not searching for....extenda hoe (dipper stick on backhoe extends out 1 to 3 feet longer)

need to look at more pull behind and 3pt hitch "scoop pans"

===============
thoughts of using rear backhoe, pulling off bucket, and dipper stick.. so just the boom & cylinder for it, along with swing clinders (left and right motion) and levers stay. and redo a minture dipper stick for attachment to rear blades, box blades, etc...

my scratch and dents, drawings trying to figure something out.

 

[boggen]

Hard to have a multi purpose tool do any one job as well as a single purpose designed one. Doubtless, you could do all the things you mention given the design talent, mechanical capability, funds and time. It might meet your needs.... as a commercial venture, I doubt that people would be interested in it's complexity and flexibility. People generally want to keep things simple. This idea lets you hook up a 3pt implement once, then reconfigure, manually to meet the task at hand, lifting heavy components, redoing bolts, etc.....doing so likely would take more time than unhooking and reattaching a 3 pt implement. Just my thoughts.

took your statement to heart

Buy the right implements for each job, get a 3pt quick hitch and have all implements compatible. Done, no reason to reinvent the wheel.

not a fan of quick hitch to some degree just not all there, just to basic.

Just remember that if you are going with a 3 pt, don't forget about ft-lbs. Farther it is from the lifting arms hookup sockets, the more the weight affects tractor handling, aka front tires off the ground or too light to be safe to control. 1# 10' out =10# 1' out sort of thing.

Quite a list of ideas. Your box blade comment will solve several of them that the plain blade won't. Other thing on operating a blade, like is used on commercial 6 wheel maintainers, is that the lateral forces on the blade at high angles especially, will work hard on your front end's ability to maintain steerability. The lighter the tractor and heaver the aggrigate against the blade, the worse is the effect. Adding weights out front will go a long way in mitigating these undesirable effects. I have made a skeleton frame attached to the front of the tractor and filled it with concrete (not cinder) blocks effectively. Cheap counter balance.

Mark

*cringes* ya i know ballast stinks. and there are limits to things...

looking at a few more things, it might be easier to start at a 3pt hitch scoop pan, and then working my way back, to a box blade, then to a rear blade.

Would you like your only tool to be a Swiss Army knife?

It can do many things, but none of them well.

Swiss Army knife

Bruce

*laughing hard*

 

[boggen]

the kid in me... sega, nes, playstation, the old gaming consoles, and more so the gaming pads, more specifically, the D button, (up arrow, down arrow, left, right) and then on new game pads. more of a minture joystick you operate with thumb for left,right,up,down, and then able to press down the bottom to do an action in the game. other words a miniture joystick, with a button on top.

how to get multi degrees of rotation and angling of a 3pt hitch rear blade.... from tilting angle left to right so dirt/snow goes off to one side... to tilt up / down to say dig a ditch or put a crown on driveway, to tilting the blade cutting edge itself for different aggressiveness of how much it cut down into the dirt/gravel. along with "offset" option. to swing blade out to one side.

a backhoe (remove bucket, and dipper) and ya have something there. but the boom is rather heavy and long, and doesn't really short up, and lots of extra weight behind the tractor.

i remember looking at various hyd motors, that used internal small size pistons, to convert hyd fluid coming form a pump, into rotation. i think one of them hyd motors might work out nicely, and doing a little bit of change with some ring valve plates, and maybe a worm gear. for final result, of 2 hoses (one pressure from pump, one to return to tank), 3 smallish solenoid valves, or 3 smallish electrical motors. vs 3 to 5 hyd cylinders, and 2 hoses and a valve for each cylinder. hmmsss wonder how much a motor torque / ft lbs a hyd motor creates at each piston, (been a while)

 

[texasjohn]

Ryan, as much worrying you are doing about this, it won't be long before you are cutting, drilling, welding, bolting stuff together. Don't forget photos!

 

[boggen]

see attach image first...

i have the basics of a hyd axial piston motor already. is there a way to use a clutch? and let things rotate as if it was an actual motor?
the issue is not causing the other axis of angle adjustment get completely out of whack by wanting to rotate the blade up/down (like adjust side link on 3pt hitch) to allow rear blade to put crown on road or dig a ditch.

as much as i would like to have things strong enough (create enough pressure / torque / and like) to use this thing to actually pickup rear end of tractor like a backhoe can. i would most likely settle for raising implement up off ground and rotating it. and then in idea locking the rotation in. to some degree as valves return to neutral position. and keep a hyd cylinder from either extending or contracting. it is that "holding" position thing that has me worried.

side note: thinking of calling it the "dog tail" that has a mind of its own!

 

[boggen]

scratch padding around, in paint. trying to get general ideas down...

===============


took me a while to figure out a multi function joystick, would most likly be a better option.

a joystick with up/down/left/right pending on direction you moved it, then maybe a twist of handle for a rotation.

perhaps a secondary thumb button, to allow movement of another joint, or a dial selector to switch between different joints.

to using a newer cellphone with touch screen. to control things. this idea kinda went out the window rather quickly....

=================
need to find the limited rotation hyd unit i remember finding last year or so... it might create enough torque to adjust things on the go.

 

[boggen]

googing "rotary double vane actuator" i think might fit the bill for the rotation. 45 degrees in each direction, if i place one at 3pt hitch, and another at back end of the tail were rear blades and other attachments would go. 90 degree left to right, if wanted. put on a little roatory sensor for "return to position" or maintain position, to automatically turn hyd on/off to deal with any sort of leakage within the hydraulics. or something way way above my head, and 3D mapping / landscaping software. to auto adjust for crowns placed in dirt/gravel driveways. you drive computer does all the work of adjusting things on rear end. *rolls eyes* i doubt that will happen.

EDIT: i suppose someone could put on a small size bucket from say a backhoe or like. and scoop "dog tail" style stuff up out of the ditch.

this is turning more and more into a "half backhoe" (no dipper stick) geared more for pulling /dragging stuff. hhmsss...

2nd EDIT: then again, might be a way to drag a rotatory cutter, down into a ditch, and then pull it back behind tractor getting around signs / posts etc... along the road way.

 

[boggen]

finally ran across something.

could be 3pt hitch compatible / quick attach compatible.
--either replacing 3pt hitch on rear of tractor all together, most likely would need a sub frame like a backhoe.
--or fit between 3pt hitch on rear of tractor and the 3pt hitch implement, may need stay straps/bars/chains.
--single remote set on rear of tractor. or PTO pump setup.
--one electrical connection plug.
--TNT (top n tilt) hyd cylinders would be a waste.

rear blade
--left and right (moving rock/dirt from one side to the other side)
--back/forth (tilting blade edge for different aggressiveness)
--rotate (angling for crown on road / digging ditch)
--extend/contract (over all length longer/shortening) kinda like "extenda hoe" function on a backhoe
--pending on optional extension, offset (swinging out to one side of the tractor)

optional...4 linear sensors and 1 rotational sensor would give...
--return to position, couple extra memory location buttons perhaps.
--float
--down force (example down force kit on PHD (post hole digger) could possibly lift rear wheels of tractor off ground / loose traction if using rear blade/box blade.
--auto maintain position (dealing with leaks in valves and like. "leak down issues with FEL (front end loader))
--dummy lights, for max extension/contraction of hyd cylinders.
--and/or more with gauges that could denote all the current angles

optional...pressure sensors
--"trip" function. hitting side walk, etc... and allowing blade to angle in such a way to prevent damage hopefully, that or trip springs built into the rear blade.
--down force, and adding a little more weight on implement, and removing pressure off of rear tires, most likely would want 4x4 / MFWD tractor. to keep steering and some sort of traction. hopefully front end doesn't come apart.

self leveling, not sure about this. PHD (post hole digger) might be useful on. or getting a certain slope, not sure on sensors for the leveling part.

1 electrical joystick / multi function knob i should say, for... one hand on steering wheel, one hand on joystick, feet doing what ever.
--move left/right to swing left/right
--move up/down to raise up/down
--rotate joystick like a door handle going into house to rotate
--push joystick into itself to contract all hyd cylinders (contracting hyd cylinder on a extenda hoe)
--pull joystick away from its base to extend all hyd cylinders. (extending hyd cylinder on a extenda hoe)

----------
major issues
--is how much it can angle / rotate
--shock loading of the hyd cylinders.
--how many electrical over hyd valves would be needed.
--extra valves to deal with "power beyond" notations. of say hyd motor on a rotatory cutter, or auger on PHD, or using a second one of these things further back behind the tractor.

 

[boggen]

below 4 pictures are from.... Octahedral Hexapod Mechanism (Parallel Robot) - STEP / IGES, KeyCreator, Autodesk Inventor, STL, Other - 3D CAD model - GrabCAD

playing around some, and it would seem the need for a "U joint" on cylinder end, to keep hyd hoses coming off the cylinder from getting all wrapped up, and then using a "ball joint" on the piston ends, to give a little bit more fluid motion.

==============
i can achieve up to 90 degree left and right (total of 180 degrees), (backhoe swinging left and right to drop spoils) but things get dicey, near that 90 degree mark, were things might get stuck and un-recoverable to swing back opposite direction. also due to placement of hyd cylinders, everything gets extend so much. (i feel more deflection / bounciness) along with total lift capacity does go down a descent amount. (the old "levers" or kids teeter totter or fulcrum comes into effect)

i can spread the hyd cylinders out (longer legs on Y) and obtain reduce degrees, of left/right, and up/down, but gain some additional rotation, and stronger lifting capacity and less chance of things binding up, if at all. some issues with cylinder end (were piston comes out) and hoses, along with sensors that still could get damaged.


the above leading me to possibly setting up extra holes / mounting options for all the hyd cylinders. spread things out far and wide, vs narrow and close to the center of the Y frames.

===============
i have looked at less than 6 cylinder setups, and more than 6 cylinder setups. and the issue always comes back to "extra play" were things would freely float in rotation mode to some extra degree. other words you have rear blade on tractor and trying to put a 5 degree crown on a gravel driveway. and the blade would rotate for example +/-5 degrees with more or less hyd cylinders. pending on setup possibly upwards of 15 +/- degrees of free play rotation.

it comes back down to a "TRIANGLE" and how the 6 cylinders are placed. that helps remove the play/slop in everything. wider the triangle (further out on the Y frames) the less play/slop there is.
the longer the hyd cylinders and pistons are (including extension / contraction of pistons) the more play/slop there is. the shorter they are the less play/slop there is

what bothers me some, is when all or some of the hyd cylinders are fully contracted. or fully extended, there is some slop/play, and additional shock loading changes

===============
i suppose if someone wanted to. they could swap out the hyd cylinders for rigid bars perhaps top/side link turnbuckles on 3pt hitches. and in playing around, i have (by accident) locked things up like a solid bar. for 1 or 2 hyd cylinders. and was interesting to say the least. it did limit my abilities but also firmed some things up. to point a possibly adding a 7th hyd cylinder or adjustable bar directly into the center of everything. possibly ball joints on each end of the center 7th unit. plan was putting a sensor rod there for rotation already, but... beefer setup *shrugs*, might help reduce "shock stress" on hyd cylinders, when dragging some of the beefer stuff, ((think stay straps, sway chains, and like for 3pt hitch, but for this, it would be the central 7th unit))

if i add the additional "positional" holes to adjust hyd cyilnders, possibly doing some chains as well to act like limiters much like sway chains / check chains do.

============
with above, it should be easy enough, to take a couple Y base frames, and use solid bars or like. and create cheap longer extensions. that could be added to either side of the unit. to either get larger offset (swing off to side of tractor), to higher lift above ground, or digging depth below ground, to setting rear blade further out behind tractor, to create more of a "motor grader" setup. i would imagine, they would act like 3pt hitches on both sides, with quick attach like ability built into them. run a couple hyd hoses, and wiring that would be needed for the electrical over hyd solenoid valves. ready set go....

================
the overall hyd cylinder bore/piston sizes.....
bore size should be able to be smaller with wall thickness a little bit thicker possibly, along with piston size might go up a little bit, much of it is due to odd angles and bending of the hyd cylinders and pistons possibly. vs your ordinary run of the mill hyd cylinder.

the pressure relief valves will need to be set for both hoses coming off the hyd cylinder.

it is looking like there will need to be 6 solenoid valves (1 per each hyd cylinder), with 1 extra for center 7th, and then 1 or 2 more for power beyond doing / rear remotes per say


==============
trying to decided if i want to just strap a rod linear sensor via pipe clamps to each hyd cylinder. or go with independent connections between the 2 Y frames.
i would need a linear sensor per hyd cylinder. due to some motions 4 cylinders are in full contract mode and 1 is barely extended out while another is some were in between fully extended/contracted,
if i go with 3 independent connections between each Y frame, and a rotation sensor via a 7th central unit. i can reduce number of sensors. from 7or8 down to 4 sensors. most likely sensors would be right at the middle / around the 7th unit if not taking the spot of the 7th unit. making it a pain to get into them (removing hyd cylinders to get at them possibly) as in getting into them to deal with trouble shooting, but more importantly to grease / lubricate things. or to adjust limiting stops.

the other issue is wires for the electrical sensors and dealing with the hyd hoses themselves coming from each hyd cylinder. that alone may play a bigger role.

==============
routing the hyd hoses....and placing electrical over hyd valves i guess i need to look more into that.

i know there is options of directly mounting stuff directly onto the hyd cylinders. but once you start moving and adjusting things about. there is not much room and more likely damage to stuff mounted directly to hyd cylinders.

back off to drawing board, to find valves and what i want for them / need from them.

EDIT: and yes, the attached pictures are misleading, once you start combining all the tilting and angling and rotation.

 

[boggen]

*arghs* and i thought i had a plan for hyd valves... to deal with "over running load" so the hyd cylinders would better behave with on the go adjustment. along with dealing with "leak down" and dealing with pressure relief... but that is not looking to good. the more complex i get the more of an issue becomes were a single failure could result in major damage...

some V notches in a generic 4 way valve (2 position 2 port valve) with A, B, P, T ports. the V notches allowing kinda of a better needle valve like adjustment, and ability to some what control both pressure and velocity / GPM of the hyd oil better.

going with maybe a slightly longer landings of the spool valve. to perhaps reduce some extra leak down. though it would be nice to go with a smaller diameter spool over all to help reduce leak down a little bit more.

generic 3000PSI max relief pressure unit, on each hyd hose coming from a double acting cylinder.

optional electrical pressure gauge for feed back info. on each hyd hose coming from a double acting cylinder.

each hyd cylinder getting its own linear sensor. and then a rotational sensor in the middle of the 6 hyd cylinders.

=======
generic proportional valves is what it looks like what i will be needing...
though thinking of going with a lower GPM setup and in that small inner diameter parts. for a slow / responsive setup. vs a larger setup that might be more sloppy with just a little bit of wear and tear. small internals should not be an issue more so if all 6 hyd cylinders are being adjusted all at same time. the extra back pressure in system, i would like to think would give a better over all response. of equal adjustment of hyd cylinders vs one or 2 hyd cylinders taking full action, before other hyd cylinders began to move. *arghs* the heat would eat things up.

the solenoids of proportional valve.... has me some what worried, to point of thinking about possibly using an adjustable screw / rotational solenoid to obtain linear action. vs a straight rod with some magnets on it. that gets adjusted back and forth.

============
the physical hyd hoses that connect valves to hyd cylinders, has me worried with "min bend radius" along with twisting of the hyd hoses. tempted to use a small diameter hyd hose. for small bend radius, and less of a clutter mess of hoses catching up on each other. granted heat from friction would come up slamming the hoses to cause hyd cylinders to move faster.

=============
the more i look at it, the more things fall to were... all the valves end up in a series vs being in a parallel setup.
pump -> P valve 1 -> T valve 1 -> P valve 2 -> T valve 2 -> etc.. etc... and finally getting to T (tank)
i was hoping to avoid this to get away from all the extra friction / back pressure that would come from it. but... hmmsss...

thinking about it... perhaps doing a combo setup...
pump -> (P valve 1&2) -> (T valve 1&2) -> (P valve 3&4) -> (T valve 3&4) -> (P valve 5&6) -> (T valve 5&6) -> tank
i suppose that would give me an actual parallel setup... but being able to place the valves at different locations. *shakes head no* to easy for an over running load to happen.

i suppose all valves are in series could still allow everything to happen in parallel, if valves are only partially opened. it just means quick fast constant adjustment of the solenoids to adjust the valves till operator lets going of the joystick.

 

[boggen]

on a different note, i came across an interesting cover. for the rod/piston end of a hyd cylinder

cloth with velcro, 2 pipe clamps.

wrap cloth around piston and let velcro stick to itself. then a pipe clamp on cylinder, and then pipe clamp on end of piston. to make in idea a "rubber boot" that you may find on various levers/joysticks. but more geared for hyd cyilnders. to keep dust/dirt/ice/snow/etc... from getting back into the piston seal of the hyd cylinder.

 

[boggen]

my brain getting overloaded, and need to start looking at the actual coding / programming. to actually get things to work it seems. vs twiddling my thumbs.

should be interesting challenge, how do you work out a 6 hyd cylinder parallel robot. to joystick/s...

an attempt to spreed sheet out variables

===============


drawing out and labeling, going to go with 6 linear / rod sensors on each of the main 6 hyd cylinders. KISS (keep it simply stupid) everything gets duplicated. 6 times.

================
6 proportional valves... each with 2 solenoids = 6*2 = 12
6 hyd cylinders each with 1 linear rod sensor = 6* 1 = 6
6 hyd cylinders, each hyd hose has a pressure relief with optional electrical feed back = 6* 2 = 12
--------------
12 + 6 + 12 = 30 connections

or rather 5 wires plus ground per each hyd cylinder. thinking placing all circuitry back to circuit board / computer chip. vs dealing with various mini circuits at each solenoid / sensor / feed back.

================
game pad D button (multi function)

 

[boggen]

trying to rough out things (guess things out) of when D pad on joystick is pressed, and what is extends/contracts and how much (percentage) the vale is open for given hyd cylinder.


swing left (9 oclock) (move D pad button left)
2 = 100% extend
1 = 80% extend
3 = 5% extend
4 = 5% contract
6 = 80% contract
5 = 100% contract

swing right (3 oclock) (move D pad button right)
5 = 100% extend
6 = 80% extend
4 = 5% extend
3 = 5% contract
1 = 80% contract
2 = 100% contract

swing up (12 oclock) (move D pad button up)
1 = 100% contract
5 = 100% contract
2 = 80% contract
5 = 80% contract
3 = 100% extend
4 = 100% extend

swing down (6 oclock) (move D pad button down)
1 = 100% extend
5 = 100% extend
2 = 80% extend
5 = 80% extend
3 = 100% contract
4 = 100% contract

rotate left (counter clock wise) (twist D pad button counter clock wise)
1 = 100% extend
3 = 100% extend
5 = 100% extend
2 = 100% contract
4 = 100% contract
6 = 100% contract

rotate right (clock wise) (twist D pad button clock wise)
1 = 100% contract
3 = 100% contract
5 = 100% contract
2 = 100% extend
4 = 100% extend
6 = 100% extend

contract all cylinders (push D pad button down)
1-6 = 100% contract

extend all cylinders (pull D pad button up)
1-6 = 100% extend

====================
looks like i need to go back to school and break out some grid paper *arghs*

 

[boggen]

earlier attempt at grid paper...


=============
tempted to just have a miniture parral robot turned into a joystick



slap a "door knob" on top of it,
swap out hyd cylinders for linear sensors with some springs. for return to neutral position
toss a central 7th linear sensor/spring into the very middle of it.

and have direct control over it all. with no calculations or anything. person could look at joystick and then look back behind tractor, and say OH, exact same thing.

off to look at linear sensors more. hopefully some R/C (remote control) stuff has something small enough i might be able to mix and match stuff together.