Advice would be appreciated

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

RonR (or anyone else feel free to jump in): I looked at the requirements a few days ago on the Bushhog brand heavy duty 6 foot rotary (capable of cutting 4 inches thick) and I think it specified 11 GPM. Don't know much about hydraulics, so would that completely disqualify the J.D. if it has output of 10 GPM, make it marginal, just keep it from maximum performance, or what???

Also (Lord, how I hate to show my ignorance to this degree) does the bushog just run on 3 point hitch and PTO? And if so, does the 3PH and/or PTO detract from the hydraulic output to the FEL? Like I said, I'm a complete novice.

Russ )</font>

Keep the JD if you can.

Buy a good used 75-105 hp used tractor. Will cost $10,000. Maybe $15000 with a loader - tho I'd rather have a loader on the little, JD tractor.

If you don't like it/ doesn't work out for you, you can always resell it for - $10000 - 15000.

Don't waste your money on a slightly undersized new tractor that you will lose money on. A good utility or ag tractor is built to work forever, with $2000 - 5000 rebuilds every 7500 hours of use. Forget the new paint on a real tractor!

You will need to save your money for tires - you will be ripping up $500 tires a lot with your chores. Might want to consider foam-filling. Expensive, but cheaper than replacing constantly.

A rotory mower should run ff the pto, not hydraulics. Hydraulic motors are inefficient. A pto shaft is very efficient. For specialized road ditch maintaining yea they use hydraulic drive, but they are spending govt money. It's a waste.

You can get trailing or 3pt styles. The trialing has wheels & a drawbar, would be like towing a small trailer around. If you have a tractor with 3pt & a heavy enough front end to balance the weight of the mower, 3pt is often a bit better.

A skid steer is very mobile & agile getting around a tight place, but not practical for traveling any distance & is specialized at only loader work, not much else.

If you plan to farm, you need to get rid of the new paint & spend ideas. You must become very efficient, as well as very efficeit tools. Every dollar spent has to return $1.05 or it is wasted. Play with the big boys, waste some money, & you are hurting.

Welcome to farming. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

 

[hudr]

THe one thing I have learned. If you have an old JD (we still have several 2 cylinder models - newest one built in 62) KEEP IT!
I doesn't seem to matter how rough the going gets, they keep going. I will admit I am not fond of the "late model" JDs (say, mid 80's til present) but they do hold their value. Also, any older tractor is going to be extremely overbuilt by todays standards. We have a 62 horse 720JD (built in '57) w/ a narrow front end (tires side by side) that out weighs my new 50 Hp Mahindra by a little over a ton. And I have loaded tires and FEL on the Mahindra.
Keep the JD. Gas burner or not, it is still a workhorse.
Also, on the clearing land thing... a dozer w/ a root rake can get a lot more done than nearly any rubber tired tractor. My .02

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

This post has gone exactly where I hoped it would: a lot of great information and the start of an education for yours truly. I am a little disappointed (though not surprised) to hear that tractors have gone the way of pickup trucks--prettier but not as sturdy but I guess that's the way of the world.

txdon: Glad to be aboard. You folks are tremendous. Not sure whether I mentioned it but my two tracts are about 33 miles north of Victoria in Lavaca County. My GG Grandfather settled there in about 1845, just after we joined the Union. Unfortunately he had about 12 kids, and my GG had, get this, 17. Otherwise, I would be worrying about buying my own tractor company--not just a tractor! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So here are my preliminary conclusions:

1. Await the report on the 1020--if in basically good shape, put some dollars into it. Maybe get a FEL for it depending on estimate/assessment of dealer as to effectiveness/hydraulics and a toothbar if one can be fitted.

2. Have implements checked out and possibly refurbished: rotary motor--will need considerable work or scrapping/box blade--not much can go wrong, I would assume/3 prong cultivator with tires--not much use for it, I would imagine/angle iron disk--may be ok or may replace with a more solid one made of square stock/3 prong 3 PH hay spear (still ok!) and a tip-up trailer for hauling round bales.

3. May add: small bushhog or rhino with 4 inch capability--but only if NOT A TOWED MODEL.

4. Begin researching the possibility of an older John Deere with 100-125 HP with FEL. Rambler: Your points about economics are well taken--in that regard a few questions (for you or anyone else):

a. How old would be about right for solidity/strength as well as full functionality (hydraulic outlets etc.)
b. Could folks recommend some models?
c. 4WD or would 2WD be OK?
d. Could I get a diesel and 4WD for 10-15K or were you thinking of a 2WD gas model?
e. I don't understand much about hitch types. The 1020 has a Type 1--most of the Kubotas from 50-90HP specify Type I/II. I imagine a 100-125 would use a II or III. Are implements upward or downward compatible? I sure wouldn't want to buy a big tractor then find out every implement had to be much higher dollar. Or is that just part of the mix?

I have also had a question kicking around in my head about disking on a field with some rough stuff still left in it. Let's suppose I shredded and chainsawed a bunch of mesquite about 2 inches above ground level and treated them with chemicals to kill the trees. Could I run a disk over that field without damaging it? Will it just bounce up over the very low stumps or will it be liable to hang up?

Thanks again.

Russ

 

[RonR]

Suggest you be cautious of anyone that suggests "dump the little JD and buy __________". Their motives might not be in your best interest.

When you are looking for a larger tractor, age and hours (to me) are not as important as maintenance. Say a JD 4020D might have 5000 hours, but if its had a motor overhaul recently, it might outlast you.

Up/Down compatible has some limits. You wouldn't want to put a 6 ft disk behind a 100HP tractor, just like you wouldn't put a 16ft disk behind a 20HP tractor. Also, larger tractors have 1000RPM PTOs while smaller have 540RPM with different shaft sizes, so the implements will be different.

If you plan to take all your stuff to a dealer for service, that's going to take some $$$$. If you can find a local reputable person to assist or train you on the implements, that probably would be better. Some stuff, like ground engaging implements, just need grease, worn parts replaced, and eyeballing for bent parts or broken welds.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've always stayed on top of tractor prices, in terms of 40 to 150 HP AG tractors. Now, more than ever before, I'm interested in the prices of 75 to 100 HP, later model, with a cab, and MAYBE 4WD. I'm needing one myself.

With certain brands (i.e. John Deere) you pay more for certain sizes than other brands. Any Deere in the 100 HP range is 25 to 100% higher than some. The later the year/model, the more you'll pay (as would be expected)

A typical 100 HP Deere (i.e. 4020, 4230, 4240) in the $10,000 range will be 25 to 40 years old. They were built before MFWD became popular. If you go to a Deere 100(+) HP, with MFWD, say a 4250, you're looking at something nearer to $20,000

Also, a GOOD loader built for a 100 HP tractor can (and usually does) add in excess of $5000 to the purchase price.

This is a price range/size range of tractor that doesn't see too many real bargains. They're very popular ON FARMS.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

redlevel and JoeR: I had figured the Deere might go for more and will certainly remain open to others. As to the perfect hog rifle, I let an old boy hunt my places and he uses a .340 Weatherby--killed one that was between 400 and 500 pounds. I've got to where I carry a .44 special on my hip, just walking through the woods and won't let my grandchildren fish unaccompanied.

RonR: I hadn't thought about the RPM differences. Good point.

I got to looking at the J.D. (just as a starting point) 4030, 4230, 4430, 4630, 4020, and 4320. These all were late 60's to early 70's and available in diesel. They range from 75-150 HP. Have not found out about their hydraulics yet, but most of them specify "closed", so that could be slower I guess. I'm pretty impressed about the prices and if you could make one like new for another 2-5 grand, they would be great. I THINK most of them are 2WD but I guess if you get over a hundred HP that doesn't make quite as much difference.

One interesting note I found was to the effect that older equipment has gone down in value somewhat due to the claimed greater fuel efficiency of newer tractors. I don't think in my case that would make too much diff. and you could pay for a lot of diesel for what a new, more delicate tractor would cost.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

I should add the question with regard to the older tractors (of all brands--say between late '60 s and whenever you would have to stop to avoid less well built models

Are parts generally still available?

What if you need new sheet metal for say, the 1020?

 

[hudr]

parts availability on older tractors: My experience is mainly w/ JDs on older iron. We have several. Our newest JD is a 4320 built in '67? I believe? We did have to wait on the overhaul kit for the motor but only a few days. Believe it or not, our local Greenline dealer has a lot of the parts for our 2 cylinder fleet (build dates from the 1940's up to our newest 830 built in '62) IN STOCK! But I believe this may just be leftovers from the days before "just in time delivery" when places actually had an inventory.
The more poplular farm tractors (4020, 5020, 4320, 4440, 4230) would still have a large parts availability.
And let me tell you, that 4320 we just overhauled is one SWEET tractor. And other than maintenance and barring any abuse, I don't expect me or my 5 year old son to have to do anything major w/ it.
Sheet metal - well, don't know that we have ever replaced anything larger than a side panel or two, but they are available from Greenline and some aftermarket places. Also, ou might find a nearby Ag Auction like Brinkley's in Oklahoma. Lots of stuff can be found on their "Salvage lines".

I am like one of the other posters on clearing the mesquite. Chemicals may be the way to go for long term control. But to make a quick showing, you will need to rip them out by the roots. I'll say it again, dozer and a root rake. Mesquite can be very hard on $500 rubber tires.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Hello Russ and welcome to the board!

I've been busy so I'm chiming in kinda late here. We are practically neighbors. I grew up in Victoria and drive past your place on Hwy 77. Also, I work in Austin so like I said above....

Anyway, there's been lots of good advice given so far. Let your needs and advice here help guide your decisions. 1st, take your time. There may be a few extra tractors for sale during the winter as some farmers/ranchers move up. My buddy's dad just bought (6 months ago) a super clean fresh 4440 (I believe) in Halletsville for a pretty penny. $29K It looks factory new inside and out.

Like the others said I'd divide and conquer. Consider the mesquite as a job all in itself. There are 2 ways to handle it that I know of. Chemically(slow) and mechanically(fast but $$$). It takes a big dozer to pull a good root rake. I'd figure 65-90 $ per hour. A D7 or D8 can pull a 6-8 foot rake and can knock out maybe an acre or more an hour if not too much in the way. This is the best way to destroy them. However, they usually won't quote a job as total amount. They just say $XXX to deliver and $XX per hour, you tell them when to stop.
A tracked skid steer with a tree sheer can easily sheer them above ground and you can easily see your progress. At least the thorns stay on the trunks and you can carefully haul brush with a grapple to a burn pile. Then you need to squirt chemical on the stump.
Chemicals are not cheap. I think Remedy is about $100/gallon. Mix it 1qt with 3 qts diesel for a gallon of mix. Then just put a small amount of chemical on the crown of trunks near the base. When you get out there and figure that you have 50-100 trees per acre or so, well it takes a lot of time and a lot of chemical. You should keep a gallon handy anyway if you want to control. I would recommend that you don't sign up your city wife for this duty as it is very boring and hard to see any progress. You never know she might be a trooper.

If your 1020 is worth fixing, do it. Get yourself a post hole digger, box blade, and FEL to start. Your angle iron disc will work OK but the stumps might be hard on it if they stick up too far. Your 1020 can pull a 6 foot disc with scalloped edges easy enough. Don't add any weight to it while you have stumps.

If money was no object, I'd recommend a 100 HP cab tractor and a modern 4wd utility but it is so here's what I'd do.

Look for clean used equipment to do the tasks at hand. A 2wd 100 hp machine will pull just about anything you'll need. There are many dealers in the area. Some will back a used unit for 30 days or so. If you get something and decide you don't need it, you can sell it if it's not a pink elephant and get your money back.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The 4320 was built/sold in 1971 and 1972. It was Deere's second entry into the turbo engine market. The 4520 was the first. (1969 and 1970) At the same time as the 4320 was in production, a larger model, the 4620 was also sold. (4520 was 120HP, the 4320 was 116 HP, and the 4620 was 135 if memory is correct)

 

[hudr]

Farmw/junk... Thanks for the info, 67 and 72 popped in my head when I wrote that post... had a 50/50 chance at geting it right /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Hard for me to remember those dates as they are right at or right before I was born (i'm a 71 model myself).
By the way, we actually have a 5020 (Pretty rough, don't use it any more) and we have the JD dozer blade for it. And lots and lots of wheel weights. Seven U Bar ... in the mood for a "project" 133 HP tractor? It used to pull our 12'7" JD disc fast enough to dig a ditch. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MMM]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I should add the question with regard to the older tractors (of all brands--say between late '60 s and whenever you would have to stop to avoid less well built models )</font>

This is where you have to do your homework and study features with each model, besides the general condition of tractor. Some features I'd consider:

Personally, I don't trust powershift, Torque Amp or the like on old tractors unless I see a recent rebuild receipt.
Synchro, instead of sliding gear which are very awkward shifting and inefficient.
Dual pto shafts for versatility
Hydraulic flow
Minimal electronic gadgetry.
ROPS canopy or cab

100hp range tractors that are real bargains are out there, but not many are green, save Olivers. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Keep an eye out and the right one will come along.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

hudr: That's good news on parts. I knew you could buy some of the stuff but that really is encouraging. I have been doing a little research and the 4320 is one that looks like a possibility. I notice it (as well as a lot of these older J.D. s, has both 1020 and 540 RPM, and I believe RonR earlier said that the two shafts ran different implements. Am I correct in assuming that the two shafts on the 4320 are of the two different shaft sizes? Does the turbo feature introduce any maintenance issues?

The 5020 sounds incredible. But 13,000 pounds? That might be too much of a real man's tractor. You may be a '71 model, but I'm a '45 model in need of an overhaul, with some sheet metal and pieces of the carburetor missing!

Kyle: We really are neighbors and while I'm at it, let me thank you for anything you might have done to get that new Cabelas built down the road. It's a great source of spare hog rifles, among other things. I hear you and the others loud and clear on the dozer solution, and in fact, may have to have one on both places to repair some minor erosion on stock tank outflows, so with the delivery price being what it is, no time like the present.

MMM: Thanks for the info on features to look for--anything else you think of, let me know. I realize at this point that there will be a price premium on anything Deere--this is just my takeoff point. And you really have to admit that the 1020 would look cute sitting next to one of it's big brothers. Everybody would say "Awwwww." Or not. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ddivinia]

I grew up in the country and just recently moved back too. We started with 20 Acres and I bought a JD 2210. The 2210 is too small for a place this size.

I ended up selling the 2210 and upgrading to a JD 4720 and a JD 757 mower. The 4720 is an excellent tractor, HST trans is very easy to use, FEL, 4wd, etc - it was an good choice for an all around tractor. I probably could have lived with a 4320 or a 4520 but it was not much more money for the higher HP. Oh well, I call it the swiss army knife of tractors - all kinds of implements, tc.

Well, we ended up buying the 160 acres next door. I found myself sweating like Mike Tyson in a spelling bee out there and I wanted a bat wing mower. My 4720 would not handle a batwing, but the MX-6 sure is handy. So, I decided on a 5525 cab with a HX-15 batwing. The 5525 will fit on my trailer I use for my 4720. I kinda wanted a 6415 (not that much more money) full size frame, etc, etc but it would not fit on my trailer, is a lot bigger, and I figured it woudl be total overkill for my needs. Having a cab rocks.

I keep debating a FEL for my 5525 but I have one on my 4720. Moving round bales when it is really cold makes me want to put a FEL on my 5525, but it really cuts down the forward visibility I like to have when mowing, etc.

All in all, I think I have a pretty good combo. The 5525 wont run the largest of roun balers, etc but it should do fine. I don't plan on doing large row crop type stuff (read big disc) or I would have gone bigger. The 4720 gets the most use, but part of that is because the 5525 with the batwing can do jobs in less than half the time.

On the fence row stuff, a skidsteer can be handy. A dozer even more handy. it really depends on what you want to do. I just put in 3 miles of new fence and the tree lines along the fence rows looked so nice after I cleaned them up, I tore down the old fence and moved it over 5'. I have a hard time cutting down really nice trees.

Get you JD up and running. You might want to add a FEL to it. I would run it for awhile and see what you think before you sink the money. The ergonomics of the new tractors is really nice. The price of a FEL for your JD would make a nice downpayment on a new JD. The financing on new tractors is pretty godo these days. Yes, they are more money but from a cash flow perspective (warranty, age, etc) it might make sense to buy new equipment.

There are some good deals on used equipment, but you have to be careful. If you want John Deere tractors, it seems that the resale is so good on them you almost should buy new. When I bought my 5525 i looked at some 20yr old tractors and they were still a lot of money considering they were 20 yrs old, etc. Resale on implements is much lower - used seems to be a good route if they are in good shape.

Let us know how it goes.

D.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

Thanks for the input, ddivinia. I'm kind of like George Washington--I listen to all my generals' advice, then ponder and make a final decision. Oh, wait! He lost all of his battles except 2 or 3.

Seriously, I did tell the dealer I asked to pick the 1020 up to think about what it would take to put either a new or used FEL on the tractor and he pointed out that since it has no power steering, and a lift capacity of 2000 pounds, it would be a real b***h to drive with the bucket loaded. Hadn't though of that one.

Russ

 

[ddivinia]

I think he is right. Adding a FEL migth be good money after bad. Once you use a modern tractor, I doubt that old one will get much use...


You kinda need to look at the one off projects vs. long term stuff. In some cases for the one off sttuff you rent a unit or buy a used one with the intention of dumping it at the end of the project. In some cases - hiring out the off the wall stuff is not a bad call - if the gear breaks - it is their problem.

So many options,
D.

 

[Bird]

Russ, my little B7100 had a front end loader, but did not have power steering. My B2710 had both. If you'd like to build up your arm muscles then a tractor without power steering is the way to go. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif