Advice would be appreciated

[rambler]

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RonR (or anyone else feel free to jump in): I looked at the requirements a few days ago on the Bushhog brand heavy duty 6 foot rotary (capable of cutting 4 inches thick) and I think it specified 11 GPM. Don't know much about hydraulics, so would that completely disqualify the J.D. if it has output of 10 GPM, make it marginal, just keep it from maximum performance, or what???

Also (Lord, how I hate to show my ignorance to this degree) does the bushog just run on 3 point hitch and PTO? And if so, does the 3PH and/or PTO detract from the hydraulic output to the FEL? Like I said, I'm a complete novice.

Russ )</font>

Keep the JD if you can.

Buy a good used 75-105 hp used tractor. Will cost $10,000. Maybe $15000 with a loader - tho I'd rather have a loader on the little, JD tractor.

If you don't like it/ doesn't work out for you, you can always resell it for - $10000 - 15000.

Don't waste your money on a slightly undersized new tractor that you will lose money on. A good utility or ag tractor is built to work forever, with $2000 - 5000 rebuilds every 7500 hours of use. Forget the new paint on a real tractor!

You will need to save your money for tires - you will be ripping up $500 tires a lot with your chores. Might want to consider foam-filling. Expensive, but cheaper than replacing constantly.

A rotory mower should run ff the pto, not hydraulics. Hydraulic motors are inefficient. A pto shaft is very efficient. For specialized road ditch maintaining yea they use hydraulic drive, but they are spending govt money. It's a waste.

You can get trailing or 3pt styles. The trialing has wheels & a drawbar, would be like towing a small trailer around. If you have a tractor with 3pt & a heavy enough front end to balance the weight of the mower, 3pt is often a bit better.

A skid steer is very mobile & agile getting around a tight place, but not practical for traveling any distance & is specialized at only loader work, not much else.

If you plan to farm, you need to get rid of the new paint & spend ideas. You must become very efficient, as well as very efficeit tools. Every dollar spent has to return $1.05 or it is wasted. Play with the big boys, waste some money, & you are hurting.

Welcome to farming. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

 

[redlevel]

The rambler makes some good points. I have seen several late model tractors on dealers' lots that had been trashed by someone using them for things they weren't meant for, usually clearing land. Some of the jobs on your farm might be better done by a backhoe or a dozer. I personally would hate to put a new Kubota, NH, or whatever in a spot where I knew I was going to destroy the paint, sheet metal, and tires in just a year or so. If I was determined to do it myself with a farm tractor, I think I would, as rambler suggested, get a big old 100-125 horse tractor, a chisel plow, a disc harrow, and a FEL. You can pull up a lot of brush with a 100 hp tractor and a chisel. Even two wheel drive.

I was just counting up, and in the last 30 years or so, I have bought about 15-20 used tractors. A couple of them had only 200 or so hours on them, but several were 20+ year old tractors that had long since stopped recording hours on the meter, because it was busted. I can only remember one instance where I really got burned; a 4000 Ford that was originally a DOT tractor. I knew better when I bought it. I still own four of those tractors, and I don't think I lost money on any but the old 4000. Several of them turned a nice profit after I used them a couple of years.

These old workhorses can often be had for a bargain; figure 5-10K for a 100hp, plus 4K for a loader. You'll need a good bushhog, too. I don't know who is telling you all that trash about the old JD being worthless. You'll find it much more efficient working in some of those smaller fields you mentioned.

Whatever you do, keep a rifle handy to take care of those porkers.

 

[hudr]

THe one thing I have learned. If you have an old JD (we still have several 2 cylinder models - newest one built in 62) KEEP IT!
I doesn't seem to matter how rough the going gets, they keep going. I will admit I am not fond of the "late model" JDs (say, mid 80's til present) but they do hold their value. Also, any older tractor is going to be extremely overbuilt by todays standards. We have a 62 horse 720JD (built in '57) w/ a narrow front end (tires side by side) that out weighs my new 50 Hp Mahindra by a little over a ton. And I have loaded tires and FEL on the Mahindra.
Keep the JD. Gas burner or not, it is still a workhorse.
Also, on the clearing land thing... a dozer w/ a root rake can get a lot more done than nearly any rubber tired tractor. My .02

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

This post has gone exactly where I hoped it would: a lot of great information and the start of an education for yours truly. I am a little disappointed (though not surprised) to hear that tractors have gone the way of pickup trucks--prettier but not as sturdy but I guess that's the way of the world.

txdon: Glad to be aboard. You folks are tremendous. Not sure whether I mentioned it but my two tracts are about 33 miles north of Victoria in Lavaca County. My GG Grandfather settled there in about 1845, just after we joined the Union. Unfortunately he had about 12 kids, and my GG had, get this, 17. Otherwise, I would be worrying about buying my own tractor company--not just a tractor! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So here are my preliminary conclusions:

1. Await the report on the 1020--if in basically good shape, put some dollars into it. Maybe get a FEL for it depending on estimate/assessment of dealer as to effectiveness/hydraulics and a toothbar if one can be fitted.

2. Have implements checked out and possibly refurbished: rotary motor--will need considerable work or scrapping/box blade--not much can go wrong, I would assume/3 prong cultivator with tires--not much use for it, I would imagine/angle iron disk--may be ok or may replace with a more solid one made of square stock/3 prong 3 PH hay spear (still ok!) and a tip-up trailer for hauling round bales.

3. May add: small bushhog or rhino with 4 inch capability--but only if NOT A TOWED MODEL.

4. Begin researching the possibility of an older John Deere with 100-125 HP with FEL. Rambler: Your points about economics are well taken--in that regard a few questions (for you or anyone else):

a. How old would be about right for solidity/strength as well as full functionality (hydraulic outlets etc.)
b. Could folks recommend some models?
c. 4WD or would 2WD be OK?
d. Could I get a diesel and 4WD for 10-15K or were you thinking of a 2WD gas model?
e. I don't understand much about hitch types. The 1020 has a Type 1--most of the Kubotas from 50-90HP specify Type I/II. I imagine a 100-125 would use a II or III. Are implements upward or downward compatible? I sure wouldn't want to buy a big tractor then find out every implement had to be much higher dollar. Or is that just part of the mix?

I have also had a question kicking around in my head about disking on a field with some rough stuff still left in it. Let's suppose I shredded and chainsawed a bunch of mesquite about 2 inches above ground level and treated them with chemicals to kill the trees. Could I run a disk over that field without damaging it? Will it just bounce up over the very low stumps or will it be liable to hang up?

Thanks again.

Russ

 

[RonR]

Suggest you be cautious of anyone that suggests "dump the little JD and buy __________". Their motives might not be in your best interest.

When you are looking for a larger tractor, age and hours (to me) are not as important as maintenance. Say a JD 4020D might have 5000 hours, but if its had a motor overhaul recently, it might outlast you.

Up/Down compatible has some limits. You wouldn't want to put a 6 ft disk behind a 100HP tractor, just like you wouldn't put a 16ft disk behind a 20HP tractor. Also, larger tractors have 1000RPM PTOs while smaller have 540RPM with different shaft sizes, so the implements will be different.

If you plan to take all your stuff to a dealer for service, that's going to take some $$$$. If you can find a local reputable person to assist or train you on the implements, that probably would be better. Some stuff, like ground engaging implements, just need grease, worn parts replaced, and eyeballing for bent parts or broken welds.

Good luck in your search.

 

[JoeR]

Hi Russ,

I am coming in a litte late here. My wife was a city girl and couldn't stand to be more than 10 minutes from a mall. After a year in the country, she can't stand the city. She likes falling asleep on the back porch and not worrying. I have horses and chickens, and my kids want to do more 4H projects which means more work for me. Fencing, etc...

Here in Central Florida, my two biggest pasture pests are feral hogs and mole crickets. I have lost almost two acres in one night to those nasty hogs. Ruts were so deep, I thought my L5030 was going to tip over when going through them. My disc and chain are my primary repair tools. Luckily in Florida, I can shoot those hogs day or night since they are considered livestock when they are on your property. And I do hunt them day and night! I too have become very aggressive towards them since I usually end of with lots of work from their damage.

Good luck on your ranch! Sounds like lots of tractor time coming up. Get ready for your wife to complain that you smell like diesel and dirt!

Joe

 

[redlevel]

You ask good questions, so it is easy to keep the thread on-track.

I am from GA, so I don't know much about mesquite. However, a quick google on "mesquite control" tells me that, like some of the invasive species we have in South Georgia, you will probably do better to depend on chemicals to control the stuff rather than trying to get it out mechanically. I'm sure your extension service can give you better reccomendations on this. However, I believe a good dependable sprayer might kill more mesquite than discs and chisels. I know that if I just cut down a chinaberry tree without painting the stump, and then coming back later and spraying it again, a dozen sprouts will come up to replace the one I cut. There are some excellent herbicides out there now; Remedy is one that comes to mind.

You are going to pay a premium for an older JD, and it might be worth it. I have had experience with older MF and Ford tractors, and they come a lot cheaper (dollars per horsepower) than the JD's. I would say a mid-70's MF 1100, 1105, 1080, or maybe an IH in the same hp range. I owned an AC 190XT, and it was a good tractor, except I think they had a reputation for weak transmissions. I have owned two 6610 Fords, about 72 hp, and they were both good units. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I bet they weigh 1000lbs + more than a new Kubota of the same hp. I bought a MF 1100 for $3200 about 10 years ago, replaced the slick rear tires with about $800 for new ones, finally took the fuel tanks off and cleaned them out, and it turned out to be one of the best tractors I have ever owned. I wish I still had it. Someone came along and offered me 5K for it. Anyhow, you can find a bargain on some of that old "big iron". (With apologies to Marty Robins)

Are you familar with the Fastline magazines? They come out monthly, and are region-specific. Many times you can find a dealer who has one of the larger, older units he has taken in trade and offer 10 to 20 percent under what he is asking. I imagine local newspapers in farm country would be a good place to look. I have bought from dealers and individuals, and have rarely got burned. I would say you should be able to find a mid 70's to mid 80's MF, IH, or AC in the 80 to 100 hp range, 2wd, diesel tractor with 4000 to 7000 hours for less than 10K. Maybe much less. I know I could here in S. GA. That would be without a loader.

If you put a disc harrow in the conditions you describe, you can depend on some maintainence. I have snapped a disc in half on a hard oak stump. A chisel plow is good for that kind of work, and should cost you between $500-1000 depending on size.

Don't forget the rifle for the hogs. A 30-30 or 30-06 should be just about right.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've always stayed on top of tractor prices, in terms of 40 to 150 HP AG tractors. Now, more than ever before, I'm interested in the prices of 75 to 100 HP, later model, with a cab, and MAYBE 4WD. I'm needing one myself.

With certain brands (i.e. John Deere) you pay more for certain sizes than other brands. Any Deere in the 100 HP range is 25 to 100% higher than some. The later the year/model, the more you'll pay (as would be expected)

A typical 100 HP Deere (i.e. 4020, 4230, 4240) in the $10,000 range will be 25 to 40 years old. They were built before MFWD became popular. If you go to a Deere 100(+) HP, with MFWD, say a 4250, you're looking at something nearer to $20,000

Also, a GOOD loader built for a 100 HP tractor can (and usually does) add in excess of $5000 to the purchase price.

This is a price range/size range of tractor that doesn't see too many real bargains. They're very popular ON FARMS.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

redlevel and JoeR: I had figured the Deere might go for more and will certainly remain open to others. As to the perfect hog rifle, I let an old boy hunt my places and he uses a .340 Weatherby--killed one that was between 400 and 500 pounds. I've got to where I carry a .44 special on my hip, just walking through the woods and won't let my grandchildren fish unaccompanied.

RonR: I hadn't thought about the RPM differences. Good point.

I got to looking at the J.D. (just as a starting point) 4030, 4230, 4430, 4630, 4020, and 4320. These all were late 60's to early 70's and available in diesel. They range from 75-150 HP. Have not found out about their hydraulics yet, but most of them specify "closed", so that could be slower I guess. I'm pretty impressed about the prices and if you could make one like new for another 2-5 grand, they would be great. I THINK most of them are 2WD but I guess if you get over a hundred HP that doesn't make quite as much difference.

One interesting note I found was to the effect that older equipment has gone down in value somewhat due to the claimed greater fuel efficiency of newer tractors. I don't think in my case that would make too much diff. and you could pay for a lot of diesel for what a new, more delicate tractor would cost.

 

[Seven_U_Bar]

I should add the question with regard to the older tractors (of all brands--say between late '60 s and whenever you would have to stop to avoid less well built models

Are parts generally still available?

What if you need new sheet metal for say, the 1020?