Advice from tractor gurus

[Farmwithjunk]

It's true...I did sleep with this tractor for a while

Say it ain't so Roy! Say it ain't so.....

I'll spend the rest of the day trying to block that visual out of my brain

 

[tpevoto]

Bigsky355,
I went through all of this a few years ago. The one piece of advice that I was always given but didn't take was this, "Get more tractor / horsepower than you think you need".
At the time I was going to maintain 4 acres and I was going to have a lot of ground / dirt work to be done in preparation for our new house. I went with the Kubota L2800 HST 4wd, FEL, 5' shredder and 5' BB. This was exactly what I needed for my place and I couldn't have been happier with this machine. The price was right.
I thought a side job or two would be nice to help pay for the tractor. I was fortunate enough to find a couple of jobs that more than made my note. One of those jobs was an 8 acre mowing job, I didn't think it would be that big a deal. I realized about an hour into the job that a bigger tractor would really be nice.
I now have 8 steady mowing jobs and not one of them is as big as your property. I have since gone with the Kubota L4240HST, 4wd, 6' Bushhog and 6'BB, FEL. I got the entire package for around 26000. That's about 10000 more than I paid for my L2800 package.
I apologize for the long winded story, my point is, just make sure you get enough tractor the first time. My wife actually suggested that I get a bigger tractor so I wasn't gone all weekend on these side jobs. I told her a thought that was a great idea. Within, 72 hours of her making that statement my L2800 was sold and my new machine was being prepped at my local Kubota dealer.
18 acres is a lot of seat time, as several of the members have suggested. The change from a 5' mower on my L2800 to the 6' mower on my L4240 has made a big difference. You're definatly want a 6' mower at a minimum. I now take about a third less time than I used to with the 5' mower. I'm sure this can be debated but my dealer said that the hp min for a 6' mower was 40 hp. I'm not sure.
Good luck, again sorry about the long reply. I've been very happy with Kubota. Check with your dealer to see what size mower your can turn with that L3400 HST.
Tpevoto

 

[machmeter62]

"BIG SKY:" I would re-read N80's opinion and take a serious look at the Kubota L4400; in my judgement it is the most capable tractor for 20K or less with a loader, and gives you a lot of options for implements for that Montana environment. It is one tough rugged tractor with Kubotas quality, and the added horsepower won't be wasted!

 

[N80]

I did sleep with this tractor for a while

That aint right.

 

[sandman2234]

I can't imagine tackling 18 acres with a 30 hp tractor, but then I am almost as bad as Soundguy when it comes to being a horsepower junkie. If the hydrostat, loader, cup holder, etc can be put off, get a bigger tractor and bush hog. A loader can be added later, if need be.
I did a job where I mowed a 10 acre field with a Ford 1100 4x4 (13hp) with a 4' bush hog. It took forever and there weren't any trees or bushes to dodge, just open flat ground. Can it be done, yes. Can it be done a better way, yes!
David from jax

 

[daTeacha]

My first question is where are you in Montana? I drove through there from Billings to Big Sky and down into Yellowstone and then out through Miles City this summer -- there is a lot of variety in the terrain and plant communities.

For most of us east of the big river, grass is a whole different thing than out in the arid plains. We can raise a cow on a lot less space than out in your area just because the grass is so much thicker and faster growing. Take the locations of the advice givers into consideration as you work through this decision.

Secondly, are you on flat ground, slanted ground, or the side of a mountain? Terrain matters, too. Steeper ground means more hp to pull implements up the hills, stability issues, and so on.

Third -- what altitude are you? The hotel in Big Sky is at 7500 feet and there were lots of homes up the mountain from there. Altitude will sap horsepower, and the higher you are the faster it will go away. Your dealers and your buddy are much more familiar with your area's conditions than those of us here in ethernet-land. Listen to them carefully.

Regarding the gear vs. hst issue, I would go gear unless you plan to mow flat ground a lot or need to use the precision maneuvering you can get from hst. I have hst now, had gear in the previous tractor. The gear seems to pull harder, but the hst allows me to move the bucket an inch or less with accuracy. The cruise control feature is handy if you mow a lot, but mine only gets used for the novelty effect and then only for a few minutes.

I have a Case DX29, basically the lower hp version of the 33. Mine has the mid PTO only because it came with the tractor as it sat on the lot. We looked into taking it off since I was concerned about hanging the shaft on a branch running around in my woods, but finally decided to leave it on since it's pretty substantial and protected. Based on that experience with manuals and such, a dealer should be able to add a mid-PTO to that machine, but check with them to be sure if it's an important issue.

To finish up -- presuming your land is typical Western sparse and thin vegation, is not on the side of a mountain, and is somewhere below 7000 feet, I think the 33 is the way to go. If you are higher, steeper, or have thicker growth than most of what I saw out there from Big Sky to Miles City, you might want something bigger.

 

[BarryinMN]

I've been watching this thread for awhile. Lots of good advise as always. How about a longer term plan?

I might suggest thinking outside the box a little more and spending a lot less: get a machine that will mow the field quickly, strength to lift stuff: dirt, machinery, fallen trees, whatever - with less drama - wheel spin, tipping forward, etc.

John deere Tractor 3020

Take the bulk of the budget & build a shed to hide it, or add a small skid steer, they are hydrostatic, faster & more precise, (you can see the entire front tool edge) stronger loader for the HP, and have the landscaping universe of attachments available.

Then buy a diesel lawnmower to maintain the landscaping. Same fuel as the others & without a roll bar gets up to and under that landscaping as it grows.

The benefit is you still own your weekends, downside is a little more maintenance. Each machine probably runs less than 100 hours/yr.

There is a theraputic benefit to bouncing around a field strapped to a tractor mowing. Question is how much therapy do you need?

 

[SkunkWerX]

There is a lot of very good advice on tractor size and features here in this thread, so I don't need to add to it, I agree with Roy, N80, and the rest, bigger will be better.

Instead, let's look at OverAll cost.
All of us get sticker shock. But your overall cost goes well beyond the day it's delivered/picked-up.

Adding fuel to the larger is better crowd, are operating costs.
A smaller machine will run much longer to get that mowing done, which can add to fuel costs and most certainly to maintenance intervals. Take into consideration things like oil changes being done more often on the smaller machine, due to the greater run-time per week. All those costs add up over time, the longer span of time you consider, the greater the case can be made for the larger mower driven by the larger tractor.

So, besides the sticker price, also consider operating costs. Every year you run the larger beast versus the smaller beast, your savings grow due to less hours, fewer oil changes, and less overall run-time.

there is also your personal hourly worth. We all enjoy tractoring around, but, there is a point where there is not enough sunlight to get all the tasks accomplished without going bigger. First it will just be the mowing, then it will be something else, and something on top of that, and before you know it you will wonder why you don't have the time to get everything done. Time is Money.

My suggestion is to consider 3 things:
-Your initial cost.
-The first two years of service and fuel.
-Total time per month for various size cutters/tractor combinations.

What may seem affordable and look like a good deal on the sticker, may end up working you a lot of extra hours, or costing you enough operating money and time to actually afford the larger machine in the first place.

Another reason to go bigger rather than smaller. (Within reason).

 

[tpevoto]

That's some very sound advice Skunk. Time is money and the way you brake that down makes a lot of sense.
tpevoto

 

[bigsky355]

Bigsky355,
I went through all of this a few years ago. The one piece of advice that I was always given but didn't take was this, "Get more tractor / horsepower than you think you need".
At the time I was going to maintain 4 acres and I was going to have a lot of ground / dirt work to be done in preparation for our new house. I went with the Kubota L2800 HST 4wd, FEL, 5' shredder and 5' BB. This was exactly what I needed for my place and I couldn't have been happier with this machine. The price was right.
I thought a side job or two would be nice to help pay for the tractor. I was fortunate enough to find a couple of jobs that more than made my note. One of those jobs was an 8 acre mowing job, I didn't think it would be that big a deal. I realized about an hour into the job that a bigger tractor would really be nice.
I now have 8 steady mowing jobs and not one of them is as big as your property. I have since gone with the Kubota L4240HST, 4wd, 6' Bushhog and 6'BB, FEL. I got the entire package for around 26000. That's about 10000 more than I paid for my L2800 package.
I apologize for the long winded story, my point is, just make sure you get enough tractor the first time. My wife actually suggested that I get a bigger tractor so I wasn't gone all weekend on these side jobs. I told her a thought that was a great idea. Within, 72 hours of her making that statement my L2800 was sold and my new machine was being prepped at my local Kubota dealer.
18 acres is a lot of seat time, as several of the members have suggested. The change from a 5' mower on my L2800 to the 6' mower on my L4240 has made a big difference. You're definatly want a 6' mower at a minimum. I now take about a third less time than I used to with the 5' mower. I'm sure this can be debated but my dealer said that the hp min for a 6' mower was 40 hp. I'm not sure.
Good luck, again sorry about the long reply. I've been very happy with Kubota. Check with your dealer to see what size mower your can turn with that L3400 HST.
Tpevoto

Tpevoto,

When I was first starting to look into all of this I was thinking 4 foot mower- now I am up to 6 feet!!!!!!!! You guys are good... real good. I will have to do some research on the Kubota lines. Is that accurate- 40 hp for a 6 foot mower? Is that pto hp?

Thanks
Chris

 

[bigsky355]

My first question is where are you in Montana? I drove through there from Billings to Big Sky and down into Yellowstone and then out through Miles City this summer -- there is a lot of variety in the terrain and plant communities.

For most of us east of the big river, grass is a whole different thing than out in the arid plains. We can raise a cow on a lot less space than out in your area just because the grass is so much thicker and faster growing. Take the locations of the advice givers into consideration as you work through this decision.

Secondly, are you on flat ground, slanted ground, or the side of a mountain? Terrain matters, too. Steeper ground means more hp to pull implements up the hills, stability issues, and so on.

Third -- what altitude are you? The hotel in Big Sky is at 7500 feet and there were lots of homes up the mountain from there. Altitude will sap horsepower, and the higher you are the faster it will go away. Your dealers and your buddy are much more familiar with your area's conditions than those of us here in ethernet-land. Listen to them carefully.

Regarding the gear vs. hst issue, I would go gear unless you plan to mow flat ground a lot or need to use the precision maneuvering you can get from hst. I have hst now, had gear in the previous tractor. The gear seems to pull harder, but the hst allows me to move the bucket an inch or less with accuracy. The cruise control feature is handy if you mow a lot, but mine only gets used for the novelty effect and then only for a few minutes.

I have a Case DX29, basically the lower hp version of the 33. Mine has the mid PTO only because it came with the tractor as it sat on the lot. We looked into taking it off since I was concerned about hanging the shaft on a branch running around in my woods, but finally decided to leave it on since it's pretty substantial and protected. Based on that experience with manuals and such, a dealer should be able to add a mid-PTO to that machine, but check with them to be sure if it's an important issue.

To finish up -- presuming your land is typical Western sparse and thin vegation, is not on the side of a mountain, and is somewhere below 7000 feet, I think the 33 is the way to go. If you are higher, steeper, or have thicker growth than most of what I saw out there from Big Sky to Miles City, you might want something bigger.

daTeacha,

Well I am about 9 miles outside of downtown Billings. Lots of wild grass, sage, weeds etc. Most of the property is flat prairie (about 13 acres?). Many of the people in the neighborhood have horses- I don't. The back side of the property is hilly where the house is with a few trees. Altitute is about 3500-4000 ft. I would agree that the case a good size for the job, mid pto not a big deal but I sure would not mind hst

 

[bigsky355]

Yes, Chris, the prevailing opinion here is pretty much on. If you're looking to try to maintain your entire 18 acres then the tractors you've mentioned so far are on the small side. Could they do it....with a 5' cutter.....and a whole lot of seat time involved........uh, yeah, but you'd be pushing them and yourself to the outer limits to get it all done.

To me, it sounds like a Farmtrac/Mahindra/Zetor no-frills-but-lots-of-metal-and-guts rig is your ticket but as I do searches for dealers anywhere near your area of the woods it's coming up pretty lame. But, many of these tractors can be had brand new in the 35-45hp area for the money you're looking to spend.

It looks like you're going to have to decide between a smaller machine for working around the house and drive (and hiring the larger acreage stuff off) or a bigger rig and maybe a little more work on your part to handle it all.

Hi Joe,
Unfortunately those brands aren't an option around here. Orange, green, blue/red only for dealerships.
Chris

 

[bigsky355]

I'd agree that for 12+ acres, the more tractor the better. This spring I mowed a large area, I won't say how much because I don't know but it took a good part of a day. The picture below shows the area. There is at least as much of this field behind the camera as in front. I used a 45 hp tractor with a 6' mower. If you have all day to ride around in circles then a smaller tractor might be okay, but the bigger the mower you can pull the better.

As far as a loader, just get one. Right now you can't imagine how useful it will be. But once you get one you'll be amazed that you condsidered going without. For your budget I'd consider the Kubota L4400. It is very basic, gear drive, 4wd with FEL and will cost a little less than $20k new. The fanciest feature is the cupholder so you're getting a lot of tractor for the money. Loader specs are okay, not great. Same with the 3 pt hitch specs. For your needs they'd probably be plenty.

But, if you have a reliable mechanic friend recommending the Case, it might be the thing to do.

George,
I'll try to check out the Kubotas today if I can. Nice pic.
Chris

 

[bigsky355]

Yeah...we sure do give you a lot of things to think about, don't we?
Have you decided yet?

JCMSEVEN (bless his heart) mentioned the 790. It's true...I did sleep with this tractor for a while (since wifey kicked me out after buying it)...it's a great tractor...but at best, it's at the lower limit of what you'll need for 12-14 acres. I still think the Case would be the better buy for your needs and budget.

Hey Roy,
At the rate I'm going, there will be snow on the ground when I finally figure out what I need.
Chris

 

[Keith_B]

Hi guys,

My name is Chris. I have been doing some research on this forum over the last month or so- VERY informative site. I need some advice at this point on selecting the right tractor given my situation.

I have about 18 acres in Montana with wild grass, sage, cactus, some rock etc. that I will need to keep short (fires out here have been crazy- another one started up last night outside of town). Will be using a bush hog type set up for that. I have a gravel road that will need grading now and then as well. Looking for a loader for misc landscaping jobs.

Three dealerships in town- JD, Kubota, NH/Case

My budget will have to be less than 20, ideally around 16 if possible. I am leaning toward something smaller rather than something bigger. The biggest job will be the mowing so I should not be putting the tractor through too much stress (very much just a weekend warrior)

Models I have been considering JD 2320 (2305 was recommended by the dealership as a possibility as well but I think this may be a bit too low/ small for my needs. Also interested in equivalent Kubota models (7610?).

Have a buddy who is a tractor mechanic and he is VERY biased toward NH/Case. He knows of a DX33 for 16900 with loader, low miles, manual tran. I think this may be too big for my needs. Also I think I would like to have hydrostat, mid pto which this one does not have.

Apologize for the long winded initial post but wanted to give you all as much info as possible up front. I am very much a city boy now living in the country and loving every minute of it.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

18 acres of mowing is going to require a tractor that can handle a 6 or 7 foot cutter, at a minimum.

Given the mowing I would go with a 5103 or 5203 John Deere, but that would be dependent upon the landscaping work you plan to do with the loader.

If you are going to be doing a lot of landscaping work, which means you will want something a bit smaller and more manueverable in a 4WD package I would check out a Kubota L4400, as N80 recommends. The L4400 is the Kubota budget/economy model, and it is available with the 8X4 gear tranny and a live PTO. The PTO is about 38 HP, which means you should be able to power a 7 foot rotary cutter under medium duty cutting situations.

The JD 990 will run about the same money, but you will have a significant difference in PTO HP. The 990's PTO is a bit under powered for a 7 foot rotary cutter if one uses the 5HP per foot rule of thumb.

In the NH/Case lineup the TC40/DX40 will top the $20K mark. $16,900 seems a bit high for the DX33 to me. I'd think a new TC33 wouldn't run much more than $16,900, which is basically a blue DX33. For the amount of acreage you are talking about mowing the 33 seems to be a bit small. They would be more suited for a five foot rotary cutter.

 

[Bird]

I certainly don't disagree with the guys who say to go with a bigger tractor. In fact, I used to always tell people to buy the biggest thing they can afford and have room to maneuver. However, I also know that sometimes some of us can't afford the ultimate, or even optimal, equipment.

I used to have 10 acres and I mowed about 7 of them with a B7100 and a 4' brush hog a few times. Yep, it took the better part of the day, but it did a good job. Then when I had the B2710 and a 5" brush hog, I not only mowed my own, but a neighbor hired me to mow about 30 acres for him on three different occasions. That 30 acres made for two long days; about 21 hours in two days.

Time is money??? Yep, for some folks, but for some of us old retired folks, tain't necessarily true. If you have more time than money, the smaller tractor will do the job.

 

[RoyJackson]

A VERY good post, Bird!!!
DARN...I missed your 20,000th!!!!

 

[Soundguy]

That aint right.

My guess is that there is a support grup for that kind of behavior.

The sad part.. is.. we are it.. and are already here..!

Soundguy

 

[N80]

My guess is that there is a support grup for that kind of behavior.

The sad part.. is.. we are it.. and are already here..!

Soundguy

Yea, leave it to Roy to invent the first new sin in two thousand years. Got to give him credit for creativity! (Just kidding Roy, just a bit of fun.....and Farmwithjunk started it, and you know what they say about dirty minds!)

 

[Farmwithjunk]

....and Farmwithjunk started it, and you know what they say about dirty minds!)

And I thought my wife was the only one that blamed everything on me