adding external valves?

[Young Ed]

we are going to add 2 hydraulic valves to our old ford 4610
we haven't bought anything yet so far it is just in the planning it in our heads stage

where it gets complicated is that the tractor has a loader, so we need to find somewhere to take the hydraulic power from and really we want to be able to use the 3 point at the same time as these 2 hydraulic lines so as in we don't need to disconnect anything is change any stop cocks or pull in/out the hydraulic flow knob thingy that controls weather the oil goes to the loader, the 3 point or the current single external hydraulic line

we don't need to use the loader with any hydraulics attached


could i take the power from the hydraulics that operate the 3 point linkage? would oil still be fed to the 3 point and the new external lines?

if it makes any difference the new external lines will both be double acting for use with double acting cylinders
Cheers Ed

 

[J_J]

I believe your tractor is open center, so you need open center valve with PB.

If you have a loader valve, with PB, you can add more valve in series with the pump flow.

Don't know if your tractor has a hyd block, but that is one place to interrupt the flow for your new valve.

All valves have to be in series.

Hydraulics:
Type: open
Capacity: 12.1 gal [45.8 L]
Valves: 1
Pump flow: 8.5 gpm [32.2 lpm]
Steering cap.: 3.6 qts [3.4 L]

 

[Young Ed]

sorry to seem like an idiot but i guess that's what i am
What does 'PB' stand for? when you said 'pmp flow' did you mean pump flow? and lastly what does 'open hydraulic system' mean?
Cheers Ed

 

[Tx Jim]

Open center hyd's means pump continually circulates the oil until a hyd valve is opened to divert oil to operate a selected function. PB indicates power beyond which is used to add additional hyd circuits. At this point how is loader hyd controlled by tractor rear remotes or an ind hyd valve?

 

[J_J]

My online speller let me down.

pmp is corrected to pump.

As Jim said plus, you need PB on each valve you add to the series flow path. There is usually a PB port and you have to add the PB adapter to make it a PB valve.

If these valves are for remote valves, you might consider some options for things like T-N-T which are for top link cyl and tilt cyl on the 3pt system.

There is no fluid after the 3pt as it dumps into the tank. It is the last valve in the hyd flow path.

 

[Young Ed]

i think it is currently plumbed in so that it goes from the pump to the loader and then the oil from the loader returns to the sump and then you change the lever to 3 point mode and the oil goes to the 3 point and then returns to the sump

i was thinking if i can find the 3 point hydraulic line and intercept it before the controls for 3 point i could simply fit a T piece and spool valve and couplings and hey presto?

T piece maybe like this
hydraulic T piece | eBay

and spool valve bank like this
51614 MISC Spool Valve Monoblock 1/2" BSP 2 Bank | eBay
(i would PM the seller of the spool valve first to make sure it is dual action)
Cheers Ed

 

[Young Ed]

a very basic diagram knocked up on MS paint
of course all spool valves and 3 point controls have a return to the sump and the pump draws from the pump
anything new is in red

if you're confused just ask
Cheers Ed

 

[J_J]

Nope, can't do that as the flow has to be in series with the pump.

If you can find an external line from the selector switch to the 3pt and interrupt that line, you could add a valve in series.

There is only one way you can operate the new valve inserted in series with the flow, and that is to use half lever/half GPM's on the remote valves and the rest of the pump flow is available to the 3pt.

If your remotes use all the fluid, there is none left for the 3pt,, as remote valve cyl fluid is routed to tank.

If the pump to the switch to the 3pt is internal, there is nothing you can do. .

If that valve is the valve you want, make sure it is open center and has PB port

 

[Young Ed]

:mur:
sorry, it really is a huge ask but is there any chance you could do a simple diagram similar to above? either on paint or similar or by hand and scan in if you prefer

out of interest why must it be in series with the pump? is it because the oil will take the most direct/ eisiest route?
Cheers Ed

 

[Young Ed]

10 minutes talking to the old man and we have a potential idea!
could we cut the line feeding the current single action coupling/external line and then use that to feed it's own double action spool valve and it's two couplings?

feed to current single action external line--->new double action spool valve----->it's 2 feed and return couplings

is this mad or is it a new break through that we should patent?
Cheers Ed

 

[J_J]

Yes, that is correct about the flow..

You can parallel closed center valves but not open center valves.

If the selector switch is the source after the pump, then that hyd fluid will either go to the loader or the 3pt.

You can have fluid going from the selector valve to the remotes, and then the 3pt in series from the pump.

Pump ----selector valve----FEL----tank

Pump----selector valve----remote valve PB----3pt----tank.

 

[Young Ed]

i think that dinner and apple and blackberry crumble did me a world of good!!!

i just understood your last post! even just worked out that FEL means Fore End Loader

i have even figured out what PB does, it lets you add a valve in series whilst the oil then flows on to the 3 point as it is in this case

could i have this

Pump----selector valve----remote valve PB 1----remote valve PB 2-----3pt----tank.

 

[J_J]

FEL = Front End Loader

Yes, you can do that, but,

If you want two different hyd actions, then get a two spool valve.

2 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB21BB5C1 DA VALVE

 

[Young Ed]

rigtht so then, i need:
a double action, 2 bank spool valve with power beyond?

oh and i am in Britain so if i can get it in Britain that is even better!
Cheers Ed

 

[J_J]

Yes, that is correct.

You could even do this.

 

[Young Ed]

cool i will look for a suitable valve then and then post here for you to check it!
we got a cab so routing is a bit more complex then that unless i mounted them just outside the rear window as i saw on a tractor exactly the same as ours at a recent ploughing match
Cheers Ed

 

[Young Ed]

1/2" bsp Hydraulic Two Bank Spool Valve | eBay

how does that look?
it said it has a 'carry over port' is this what we are calling PB?
Cheers Ed

 

[J_J]

Yes, looks OK

 

[J_J]

If your hyd system is open center, you can install valves in series with the flow.

Each valve should have PB.

 

[Young Ed]

cool, awesome thanks! so carry over port means PB?

i think it might almost be time to don my boiler suit and get down and dirty and find a suitable hydraulic line to cut

when we start the build i will post another thread with pics and descriptions all the way if it helps anyone else
Cheers Ed