Hydraulic problem plus PTO John Deere 4200 tractor

[ohiogar]

Kinda long story but I really need advice...I bought a JD 4200 tractor with hydro trans and
420 front loader at auction knowing nothing about it. Itmight havesat for 4 years or more. Torrential rains when
I picked it up so no testing it there.
Got it home cleaned the diesel system, changed oil and she purrs like a kitten.
Topped off the hydraulic and steering and hydro worked for a few minutes then steering stuttered and hydro quit.
Jumped off and noticed the rubber manifold sucked in at the implement pump. After draining the hydraulic fluid
twice and cleaning the pickup filter the hydro now works fine.
The loader will not raise but the tilt function works really really slowly

Problem #2 The 3 point will not work at all. The lever moves freely but nothing. The3 point arms are most of
way up. You can lift the3 point arms the maybe 2 inches of upward travel but trying to push the arms down it is a solid stop.

Problem 3 It seems the PTO will not disengage. The lever works as it should and the dash light comes on when lever is
engaged but PTO shaft keeps spinning with motor on. The clutches might be stuck but I do not know how to unstick them.
Thought about a pipe wrench but would rather not.
The hydraulics are the big thing but your thoughts on any would be appreciated.
OH I have the Curtis cab taken apart except for the cab heater and I have no use for it.
regards gary

 

[dfkrug]

First, the PTO. Open the back cover and see what is in the bottom of the sump. Good chance the PTO brake has come apart. If so, the PTO shaft may turn even if the PTO clutch is disengaged. The PTO brake is optional.

RE the 3-point cylinder, I assume the rate-of-drop knob is all the way out. You are going to have to remove the seat and check the hardlines and 3-point cylinder valve if the pump is OK.

Of course, the implement pump could be worn out, but check all plumbing first. Do you have an AUX valve?

 

[ohiogar]

Thanks for your reply. I forget if the PTO was engaged or not when i started farting with the tractor but I worked on a ford truck with a double disc clutch that the discs were stuck to the flywheel and PP. I figure maybe that happened here.
I have the cab and back fenders and seat off now. Figured on power washing it all real good then starting with the control valve to see if there is a stuck relief valve. It turned cold here so that is on hold for a few days.
I do not want to put any money into it until I figure what all is wrong here cause it still needs some plastics and a drawbar and floor and heel pan, headlight bulbs, a hyd hose and fittings.
It has not been butchered at all though...All of the harnesses and tubes and brackets are unmolested and the motor is sweet and the trans seems fine with NEW 8 ply traction tires on rear.
again thanks

 

[dfkrug]

I like to pressure-wash everything first, too.

Your PTO clutch is a wet multiplate unit, and they do not tend to stick like a dry plate clutch can. They do have drag, however.

I have rebuilt two 4300s and both had broken PTO brake. On one, I replaced broken plates, and on the other, I went without the brake.

The sump is very easy to access from the back, and will tell you a lot.

 

[ohiogar]

The picture is the 3 point valve correct? Thanks I am gonna need to get into that.
About how much can I get into with the PTO?
I am trying to figure whether to fix or part out.
thanks

 

[dfkrug]

That is the Hema 3-point valve.

A working tractor is worth a lot. Parting it out will be a lot of shipping work.

You could have just a worn-out implement pump, which is not a hard fix. More investigating is called for, IMO.

 

[ohiogar]

Well thanks for the advice. I tore into the left side first after stripping the fenders and roll bar.
They had the brakes so far out of whack that they were never operable and all of the joints need
freed up.
The 3 point valve was just stuck about mid travel. a couple times gentle working it back and forth with lube freed it up. Still no pressure. Am going for the pump next.
The PTO I removed the shield and put a 24" pipe wrench gently on the output shaft and now the pto brake seems to work fine... 2 problems hopefully fixed.
2 questions:
The oil line from the scv to the rear of the 3 point housing. is it right hand or left hand thread? the adapter has that notch around the middle which indicates left hand thread. The tube nut is on really tight but the adapter is loose . Is one right hand and the other left hand?
Also You show that inline fitting with the screen ... where is that fitting located?
Again thanks Gary in Ohio

 

[dfkrug]

The oil line from the scv to the rear of the 3 point housing. is it right hand or left hand thread? the adapter has that notch around the middle which indicates left hand thread. The tube nut is on really tight but the adapter is loose . Is one right hand and the other left hand?
Also You show that inline fitting with the screen ... where is that fitting located?

No left-hand threads anywhere that I found.

The inline screen is on one of the hardlines behind and below the seat. JD added it after the 4x00s came out, apparently hoping that there would be fewer issues with the 3-pt cyl valve. Didn't help. The screens just blow out. You may not have it on an early unit.

 

[ohiogar]

Ok I think it is figured out. Will not know for sure until I get a hose and a steel line for the loader.
On top of the loader valve scv are 3 nuts take them off and they are check valves. Hollow nuts with a spring and a plunger. It is like those plastic plungers expanded and they were stuck up in the nuts fully open. A couple hours with a dremel honing out the nuts and a file fitting the plungers and they all work freely now. They are a hundred and some bucks apiece. Oh Well it seems to work now. The tilt works both ways but has a leaky hose and a rusted out steel line on the lift but it works.
Thanks for getting with me. Gary