8N solenoid issue

[driverdbk]

just purchased a 1950-52 side mount dist, ford 8n from a friend. had no battery, (still a 6v system), he would jump start with 12v batt, leave the wires dangling and off he went. The tractor would run for an hour or so and quit.

I installed a new 6v battery the tractor started and ran for about 15 mins and quit. At this point there was no reaction at all when the start button was pushed. I tapped the solenoid and got it to turn over, next try nothing again.

I bought a new 6v three post solenoid from Napa, the new solenoid was set up backwards the batt side was switched and there was an S post instead of a I post. I installed with the S post out instead of toward the engine.

The tractor started but would only run with the stock start button held down, as soon as I would let go of the start button the engine would stall. I went to this forum and found out china sometimes makes these solenoids bass ackwards, so instead of messing with it I ordered a new one online that looked the same as the original.

I installed the newest solenoid and the same condition exists, (only runs with the start button held down),. This new solenoid had the I post and looked exactly like the original solenoid so I installed it with the I post towards the engine. The new solenoid was also made in china.

The only other thing I did to the electrical system was replace the 6v coil with 6v coil, I made sure the wires were connected exactly as they were on the original. I also set the points to .0025. with the start button held down the tractor runs smooth when I let go it stalls.

HELP!!!

 

[jonyyuma]

Ooopps sounds like a job for Soundman, he will be by shortly. He has more old Fords than most others, i believe.

 

[J_J]

Does your tractor have an on/off switch? Put a meter on the coil and see if you have 6 v to the coil with the switch on. You may have 6 v to the starter and not to the coil. Try using a jumper and feed the coil with 6 v from the batt.

 

[Soundguy]

1, incorrect solenoid.

hit a tsc.

also.. you put the power wire tot he dash on the starter side of the solenoid.. not the battery side.

that's the common cause of running only when starter is engaged.

classic misswireing and wrong parts...

soundguy

just purchased a 1950-52 side mount dist, ford 8n from a friend. had no battery, (still a 6v system), he would jump start with 12v batt, leave the wires dangling and off he went. The tractor would run for an hour or so and quit.

I installed a new 6v battery the tractor started and ran for about 15 mins and quit. At this point there was no reaction at all when the start button was pushed. I tapped the solenoid and got it to turn over, next try nothing again.

I bought a new 6v three post solenoid from Napa, the new solenoid was set up backwards the batt side was switched and there was an S post instead of a I post. I installed with the S post out instead of toward the engine.

The tractor started but would only run with the stock start button held down, as soon as I would let go of the start button the engine would stall. I went to this forum and found out china sometimes makes these solenoids bass ackwards, so instead of messing with it I ordered a new one online that looked the same as the original.

I installed the newest solenoid and the same condition exists, (only runs with the start button held down),. This new solenoid had the I post and looked exactly like the original solenoid so I installed it with the I post towards the engine. The new solenoid was also made in china.

The only other thing I did to the electrical system was replace the 6v coil with 6v coil, I made sure the wires were connected exactly as they were on the original. I also set the points to .0025. with the start button held down the tractor runs smooth when I let go it stalls.

HELP!!!

 

[driverdbk]

Thanks for the input. Do you have a diagram of the wiring? I am baffled because there is only one way to wire the solenoid, (small red wire to the I post/larger yellow wire to the starter side/battery cable to the battery side), and I did it exactly the way it came off the old solenoid. I tried turning the solenoid around, with the battery connected to the opposite side and starter on the other when I did this there was no power to the starter when I pushed the start button. Sorry but I am not a good electrician, I am however very good with the details and putting things back together the way they came apart. Is there a way to test the solenoid? Or can you lead me to a parts house that will give me the correct part? First solenoid bought at Napa, Second bought online at Yesterdays Tractor Co. Thanks for the help.....bk ps not sure what tsc is.

 

[Soundguy]

you just confirmed your problem.

NOTHIN goes ont he starter side except the connection to the starter.. the small yellow wire goes on the BATTERY side.

remember.. the old solenoid was turned around so the small terminal faced the block....

any wires on the starter side only get energized when the solenoid is energized.

that's why it only runs when starting...

like i said/... common problem with wrong aprts and misswireing....

it takes about 4' of wire and a handfull of wire connectors to wire an N...

soundguy

soundguy

 

[driverdbk]

Is the connection to the starter the copper L shaped bracket? and confirming that is the only connection on that side. You know I may have just put this error together in my head.

The first solenoid had to go on backwards because the battery post was on the wrong side, so when I connected the red wire first the yellow wire naturally fell on the starter side so that is where I made the connection. In the correct orientation that wire would have fallen on the battery side. when I got the solenoid that goes on in the correct orientation I still hooked the yellow wire to the starter side. That is kind of funny considering I just told everyone how much I pay attention to detail. I guess it is true pride comes before the fall :laughing:. And your statement about misswiring was correct.

I really appreciate the help and great information you are giving me and have given many many others. Thank you so much...bk

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. copper buss bar is the only thing that hooks to the starter and stsrter side of the solenoid. anything else there would only get power during starting.

soundguy

 

[driverdbk]

Update, After Soundguy helped solve my solenoid problem the tractor starts perfectly!!! :thumbsup:

I did find another issue, sometimes the starter stays engaged until I tap it with a hammer, I suspect a spring or something in the old starter is probably worn.

Any Ideas

 

[Soundguy]

have you decided if it is an electrical problem.. ie.. solenoid stuck, or a mechanical problem.. easy to test by pulling wire to starter.

if it is mechanical, it could be a bad bendix gear, or the teeth on the gear and ring gear are chewed up a bit.

another possibility is that the shaft is dirty or rusty and not letting hte drive spin back out to the end.

the newer follow thru clutch style drives tend to stick engaged more than the old drives which tend to fly out at the least pop of a cyl.

soundguy

 

[driverdbk]

I searched the site for procedures on testing the starter, I was unsuccessful.

Can you give me direction on this? not sure which wire to pull or what that indicates. Sorry ahead of time for my ignorance on this electrical stuff....bk :confused2:

 

[Soundguy]

your starter is fed by only a single conductor !?!?!?!

I'll give you a hint.

Pull THAT one.

?????

seriously.. one wire from the bat to the solenoid, and one wire or copper xfer bar to the starter.. pop the copper bar or wire on that side loose.

not rocket science her.. this is 30 and 40's era technology.

we use computers.. thius stuff should be super easy.

no 'procedures' needed..

soundguy

 

[driverdbk]

Really? Your going to respond this condescendingly. I came to this site for help, to learn and be helped by people who are here to give that help without making a judgment as you have just done. That is completely arrogant on your part. (arrogant) - having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities. If I knew this 30's/40's technology I wouldn't be asking for help. And what does pulling the copper bar do other that disconnect the starter? Is that testing it? I don't think so. YOU act like I am supposed to know this. Well I don't, that is why I came for help. Don't bother responding.

 

[Soundguy]

wasn't trying to be condescending, letting you know this stuff is easy once you set and think about it a moment. it's not like a modern auto with 30 wires all criss-crossed around here and there. it's a ground activated internally hot solenoid that conencts battery to starter.. starter spins.. bendix travels in towards back of flywheel to engage ring gear.. overspeed by engine starting kicks bendix back out to end of shaft.

testing is what?

testing under load?

testing under no load?

do you have the proper shunt ammeter to test the 100-200a loads we are talking about?

measuring shaft side or end play? ( bushings / bearings ) ?

that's the easy part.. can visually inspect for that. side play will cause binding, and that will cause excessive starter current when spinning / and will make it drag, reducing speed... in extreme cases it lets the brushes excessively wear and can damage the armature and cut the field pieces..

did you want to get into it that far.. or were you looking for a go / no go test? need more info that you provided to go on.

if you want to get it fixed.. post back.

if you don't want to get it fixed???? or already know how to do so???

good luck

soundguy

 

[redmantractor]

Lessons learned this day and a very BIG Thank You to Soundguy. Looks like its been awhile since anyone added to this thread but Soundguy want you to know your advice got my tractor up and running this morning. Got an 8N from a local church that bought a zero turn and didn't need the tractor or brushhog anymore. My first tractor BTW. The second day it wouldn't start, just clicking. Everyone knows the sound of a dying battery. Did some research online and tried to take the cheap route first and replace the solenoid. BAD NEWS. Long story short, miswired the solenoid and ended up buying a new battery anyway. Reading this thread and following soundman's advice, correctly wired the solenoid, reconnected the battery cables and SUCCESS. The tractor is running like a champ.

Lessons Learned:
1. Do it right the first time.
2. Don't believe everything you read online.
3. Go with your gut. It probably knows more than you think.

Thanks again soundman.
redmantractor

 

[Soundguy]

Glad this old post had something in it for ya.