850 Doesnt Start

greenmachine · Apr 9, 2001

1987 850, 2wd, 294 original hours. Have power to the ignition, all lights work, turn the key hear a click and nothing. sometimes it starts right up. i was thinking the solenoid on the starter.. Not sure though, anyone have any thoughts?

DarinRay · Apr 9, 2001

Right now it's late so my head is foggy.....But I am thinking that you don't have enough cranking amps in your battery to turn it over.... eventhough your lights work does'nt mean that your battery is up to snuff I think. But like in the past I could be wrong. O.K. seems to be quit often..LOL I am sure you will find some troubleshooting quides here in the morning from people that actually know something /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Darin

Bird · Apr 9, 2001

Hearing a click would indicate to me that the solenoid is doing its job; opening and closing the circuit. Like Darin said, I'd start by checking voltage at the battery, then I'd check for loose or corroded connections, check voltage at the starter, and with a clamp meter, check amperage draw on the starter cable when the key is turned to the start position. If all that checks out good, I'd remove the starter and check for damage to the bendix drive, and as a last resort, the possibility of damage to the teeth or gears on the flywheel. If it works sometimes and sometimes doesn't, it's possible the starter drive and flywheel teeth just aren't lined up to go together. And I'm not a mechanic, so those are my guesses and opinions; someone else may know better.

Bird

cowboydoc · Apr 9, 2001

I completely agree with Bird. Last year the massey did the same thing. Had brand new batteries and about a week later it started clicking and then after bumping it enough times it would finally catch and start. After a few months of that no matter how many times I clicked it it wouldn't start so went and got a new started solenoid and it started everytime right off.

The skidsteer though one time did the same thing too. On that occasion it was the negative battery terminal connector was loose. I tightened that up and it started right off.

greenmachine · Apr 9, 2001

I was going to test the power to the starter this morning. The clicking does sound like its coming from the starter but a relay underneath the diesel tank, this isnt my tractor so i am not to familiar with it.. I am used to worked on JD farm tractors.. I will check the basics and let you guys know what i find. thanks

greenmachine · Apr 9, 2001

Its not the starter or solenoid.. If i run a hot wire from the battery to the starter solenoid it starts right up.. So i now going to replace the relay in the ignition system. Its a small round relay and it is right next to the tach after u take the access panel off. Hopefully that will solve the problem.. Thanks!

Bird · Apr 9, 2001

Aaah, I assumed the click was coming from the starter solenoid, and of course, I'm not familiar with that model, so it has a relay I didn't know about - nothing too new about me not knowing what I'm talking about./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Glad you got it solved.

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Apr 9, 2001

PC 1876-850 (-016000) AND 950 (-020000) COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS ELECTRICAL

INSTRUMENTS

KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. 0 0 REMARKS

1 CH13574 NUT 1 M6, (SUB FOR CH12382)
2 CH11698 FLASHER 1 (LESS TURN SIGNAL)
3 CH11895 SPACER 1
4 24M7054 WASHER 1 6.400 X 12 X 1.600 MM
5 21M7094 SCREW 1 M6 X 16
6 CH17992 COVER 1
7 CH12037 SCREW 2
8 CH12768 BULB 3 1.7 W
9 CH11893 TURN SIGNAL LAMP 1
10 CH11982 NUT 1
11 CH12209 KNOB 1 013828- X
CH12209 KNOB 1 017641- X
12 CH12210 SCREW 1 013828- X
CH12210 SCREW 1 017641- X
13 CH18036 SWITCH 1 013828- X LIGHT
CH18036 SWITCH 1 017641- X LIGHT
14 CH12200 SWITCH 1 -013827 X LIGHT
CH12200 SWITCH 1 -017640 X LIGHT
15 CH12206 KEY 1
16 CH11696 SWITCH 1
17 CH13720 RELAY 1 009001- X
CH13720 RELAY 1 012001- X
18 14M7229 NUT 2 M5
19 12M7064 LOCK WASHER 2 5.100 MM
20 CH12768 BULB 1 1.7 W
21 CH20169 SPEED-HOUR METER 1 (SUB FOR CH12235)
22 CH12241 CABLE 1

Anonymous Poster · Apr 9, 2001

If not the relay... how about a "safety interlock" device partially hanging up?

greenmachine · Apr 10, 2001

I need a break down of the rear hydraulics, the quick disconnects are leaking, must be a few o-rings inside that are leaking.. Since its not mine i dont have a service manual.. So if anyone could help me out i would appreciate it! Thanks!

Keoke · Apr 10, 2001

John's right about the interlock safety switches possibly interposing high resistance in the solenoid trigger circuit. Also, the start contacts in the ignition may also have high resistance. Starting at the ign. sw put a volmeter across the bat and start terminals, turn to start and measure voltage drop across these two terminals. It should no more then .3 of a volt under full circuit draw. If ok on ign sw go to next switch in this series circuit. The next sw may be either the clicking relay, neutral safety or the PTO safety sw.
All of these sw's are typicaly in series between the ignition sw and the starter solenoid. Just check then out one at the time. None of them should have more then .3 of a volt drop across their in and out terminals. Overall, you should not have more then .7 of a volt drop from the bat pos. post to the trigger terminal of the solenoid. A drop of .3 volt across a switch is not a good number, it is the max number allowed before canning the sw.

If you have no meter, simply put a 10/12 gauge jumper wire across the above relay and safety sw's and try starter each time. Just make sure tranny is in neutral and PTO out.
Note, the clicking relay may have a series instead of shunt coil in it. This means that the safety switches will be used to provide a ground path for this coil while the ign sw provides the hot. However, the fact that the relay clicks means that the needed ground path is being provided. Thus, the safety switches are ok. Look at safety switches, if they have only ONE wire going to them then they are ground providers for the relay coil. If they have two wires (in & out) then they are in series between the ign sw and the solenoid.
Sorry, but this post turned out to be more long winded then I wanted. I just hope it helps.

later,
george

Anonymous Poster · Apr 10, 2001

PC 1876-850 (-016000) AND 950 (-020000) COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS
HYDRAULICS QUIK-COUPLER

TRACTOR
KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

1 R26448 O-RING 4
2 T42285 ADAPTER 2
3 AR92069 FITTING 2
4 R459R O-RING 4
5 AM37982 HYD. QUICK-CONNECT COUPLE 4
6 AM37983 INTERNAL HALF COUPLER 4
7A AM31275 PLUG 4 (SUB M85099)
7B M85099 CAP 4

Anonymous Poster · Apr 10, 2001

PC 1876-850 (-016000) AND 950 (-020000) COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS HYDRAULICS

QUIK-CONNECT COUPLERS

TRACTOR
KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

1 AM37983 INTERNAL HALF COUPLER 1 1/4"
2 T41225 ADAPTER 1
3 AA36957 HYDRAULIC HOSE 1 3/4" X 152 MM (6") X 3/4", (SUB FOR AB34902)
4 R59343 RING 1
5 R26485 BACK-UP RING 1
6 L32513 SEALING WASHER 1
7 R33282 SNAP RING 1
8 AL27026 HYD. QUICK-CONNECT COUPLE 1 1/2"

Keoke · Apr 10, 2001

CORRECTION: I my earlier post I may have given the mistaken impression that a safety switch with two leads is NEVER a grounding sw. Although not often, two or more double lead safety switches wired in SERIES, with the final one going to ground, may also be used to provide ground for a relay coil. EG, a starter circuit may have the neutral safety sw wired in series to the pto safety sw and then finally to ground. Consequently, tractors got to be in neutral and pto off (both sw's on) for relay coil to see it's ground and latch. When relay coil latches solenoid will then get it's B+ from bat and power up.

my apologies,
george

GaryK · Apr 10, 2001

Does your tractor have safety switches on the trans and PTO that stop the engine (dead man) or will not let it start in gear? sometimes these can be defective or a wire can come lose. i know, had to jump start my tracotr in the middle of the woods to find out a wire came off a safety switch while bush hogging.

greenmachine · Apr 10, 2001

yeah it has the safety switches, they all check out okay.. relay should be in tomorrow, along with the hydraulic seals..
By the way this machine is forsale.. located in Rockford, illinois. 295 original hours, loader, jd bushhog, sprayer, aerator,rear blade and one other attachment i cant think of.. 15,975 is what the owner is looking for.. oh yeah its 2wd drive, always shedded. If you want pics i can get them