7018 vs 6013 vs everything else

[Arc weld]

50 years ago there weren't as many options or used machines available. You can buy a new DC inverter which is not only a superior welder with a much higher duty cycle but costs about the same price as a new buzz box, around $300, uses a lot less power and comes with a 5 year warranty. You can even hook up a TIG torch to it. That's a heck of a bargain if you ask me.:thumbsup: DC current has a distinct advantage when doing out of position welding. For a newbie to welding it should be a no brainer. A better machine won't require nearly as much practice in order to make acceptable welds.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Kind of off topic but why do people typically do a first pass with a 6010 and then cover it up with a 7018? Why not just use a 7018?

For me the cost of rods is negligible compared to my time and the down time if something breaks. I weld pretty much everything with 6010 (5P+) but would consider 7018 if it was all purpose but I am not familiar with it enough to know if there are certain situations where you shouldn't use it or if the first pass of a 6010 is always required. As to the 6013 if it is inferior why buy it? Is it that much cheaper? Sounds like it is adequate so I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I had some but I wouldn't go buy some if I knew something better for the sAme cost was out there.

I didn't see anywhere in the thread where this was answered definitively. The reason for a root pass with 6010 or 6011 is because 7018 doesn't run well across a gap. It CAN be used with a gap but it requires some skill at working the puddle to make it jump across the gap whereas a 6010 can bridge a pretty good gap like is necessary with open butt welds for full penetration welds. 6010 also doesn't leave a lot of hard to remove slag in the crevices like a 7018 weld. Overall it is much easier to run a root pass with 60xx rods then fill and cap with 7018. IF you can access the back side of a weldment, then you can run 7018 for first pass, grind out the slag and weld the backside (as in structural steel welds) but this is not possible on pipe unless it is large enough to physically crawl inside and even then with the OSHA confined space process, it is a PITA to get set up to go inside for the backweld.

 

[LD1]

I find it odd that 6010 and 6011 fill gaps so well given that they are a deep penetrating rod.

I never used 6010, but the 6011 don't seem like it would fill well?? I think 7014 fills very well. Is there a reason it isn't used as a root pass since it is a 70 series rod??

 

[k0ua]

I find it odd that 6010 and 6011 fill gaps so well given that they are a deep penetrating rod.

I never used 6010, but the 6011 don't seem like it would fill well?? I think 7014 fills very well. Is there a reason it isn't used as a root pass since it is a 70 series rod??

It is the fast freeze of the 6010 and 6011 that help here.

 

[Shield Arc]

LD1 I understand a lot of places are testing now with open root pipe with 7018. I've played with it some, it is not near as easy as with 6010, but it can be done.
First picture is 7018 open root pipe, second in 6010 open root pipe.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Some places overseas use 6013 for open root...in fact a good bit of Europe and Asia I understand.

 

[LD1]

LD1 I understand a lot of places are testing now with open root pipe with 7018. I've played with it some, it is not near as easy as with 6010, but it can be done.
First picture is 7018 open root pipe, second in 6010 open root pipe.

I understand that 7018 isnt great at filling gaps(open rood).

My question was....why not 7014 instead of 6010?

Again, I havent used 6010, cause I have an AC machine, and when I have used a DC machine (everywhere I have ever worked), it has been 7018, but we arent dealing with pipe or gaps.

Just strictly looking at this from a "on paper" standpoint, and not from "experience", why not open root with 7014? Higher tensile strength. I would think the inspectors or engineers would see it this way. What am I missing?

 

[yomax4]

Man this is a long thread... I like all the general rods but I like to play with the fancy rods just for kicks. Welco 83-88 = 80K tensile 6011, MG rods 80Tand 500 are fancy 6013. MG600 and Super Missile are identical to Stoody Versalloy except Versalloy is only $8.00# instead of $30.00 and yes it's a 312 SS rod. Other cool ones are MG Easy Strike 1/16" = 6013, MG 780=7018, Nickel free synthetic cast rods. Even Silicon Bronze stick rods for welding thicker galvanized. Often times your LWS will give you one or 2 to try. ( or at least I used to give them away back in those days) Try some of these just for fun.

 

[R W]

I understand that 7018 isnt great at filling gaps(open rood).

My question was....why not 7014 instead of 6010?

, why not open root with 7014? Higher tensile strength. . What am I missing?

From memory 7014 was a very easy rod to use and should be an excellent rod for this application. Have never used 6010 in fact can't ever remember seeing a packet of them anywhere.

 

[Reyer Farms]

The open root is really not as much as filling the gap but breaking down the walls and getting complete penetration. 6010 is a good rod for it because it burns in there and gives a good weld on the inside ( wedding ring on pipe ). Outside looks like crap. Any all position rod can do it- you might need different landings and spacing.

 

[Arc weld]

Interesting thread. 7018 can be used for open root butt welds. It's not very common but can do a very nice root. We had to do it on vertical up test plates in school. The instructor couldn't understand why some people had trouble with it. Just go straight up with no whipping, weaving or anything else. Sometimes the heavier slag causes problems, especially if it decides to fingernail. 7014 is higher tensile than 6010 but isn't designed for dynamic loading like 6010 is. 6010 is the most preferred rod for root passes for a several reasons. Here's a few: It has a very thin flux coating allowing you to get deeper in the groove. It does have fast freeze characteristics that gives you better control of penetration and the puddle. You can see and especially HEAR when you're getting the right penetration a lot easier and the lighter slag doesn't cause problems like with other types of rods. 6010 can be whipped and manipulated as needed with little effect on weld quality. Because of its deep penetrating properties and ability to be jammed into the joint without snuffing out, you can still get 100% penetration on a tight fit up. It is much easier to clean up in deep grooves.7018 can be a real PIA to clean the slag off in deep grooves. On pipelines 6010 is ran downhand and is very fast compared to all other rods.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Inverter units with arc force control can be used to help "punch" through the open root. But there are more ways to skin that cat. Don't forget both the land thickness, rod size, root gap, all can be manipulated to get easier penetration even with 6010. Although I haven't read any ones with 7018 with open root, I'd have to assume some allowance and redesign of standard protocols have been made to help improve the penetration with 7018.

 

[Oldpath05]

I find that 6011/6010 works the best for open root or filling in gaps, seems like there's lest slag to get in the way while welding, and is good for dirty rusty mild steel. 7014 is a low penetrating fast rod, but still strong, but I don't like it for filling gaps, slag get's in the way easier, 3/32 works good for tacking, and 3/16 for getting a lot of welding done, and lot less spatter with it. 7018 is a good strong penetrating rod, I like using 6010 to fill the gap, then if I want more strength with less passes, I put some 7018 on it, it will penetrate, and burn out hidden slag.

After reading though this and other threads, I think I'm the only one in this country who welds/makes things with discarded bed frames, and truck springs. This steel is very strong stuff, great for bracing up something, and if I can get it free, I'll take all I can get. The best way to tell if you need 6010, 6013 or 7014, 7018, is to but weld a piece of bed frame and or truck spring on one side with one pass, then whack it against something, it should snap right into if it was welded with a 60XX rod, and usually it will crack while welding it. With 70XX, you will have a harder time to break it.

 

[Arc weld]

Suggesting that anyone uses old bed frames and spring steel for welding anything is not very good advice. Bed frames are higher carbon low grade steel and spring steel is even higher carbon requiring special welding techniques. The best way to tell what rod to use is to figure out if it is dynamically or statically loaded and what type of joint it is. 7018 isn't a good rod for burning out slag. If you have slag you need to weld over, clean it completely out with a wire wheel or grinder before welding over it. 6010 will burn out some slag, that's another reason it's good for root passes. It has a lighter slag and isn't affected by it like other rods. Still best to clean it really good before welding over it.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Haven't checked this thread in a few months... its grown 3 pages! Busy now but am coming back later to read it all in detail...

 

[lilranch2001]

Old timers used to swear 7018 would wash out slag, I didn't believe it back then, and have not seen any evidence of it since

 

[Oldpath05]

What little bit of slag left over from 6010 rod, 7018 DC rod will burn it out, and make the weld stronger. 7018 is a penetrating rod, but I just don like it to fill gaps, I rather fill gap's with mig, but long time ago I didn't have mig, so I use to fill gaps with 6010 or 6011. Also at ship yard's and other place's, you cant do that, you have to grind out every bit of slag before you add more weld, so when it get's Ultrasonic Tested (UT), it has to be a perfect weld. Home welding doesn't need to be perfect, I just shoot for what would be stronger then the steel that I'm welding together. I guess the way I do welding would make me part of the Old Timer club.

 

[lilranch2001]

I bet 95% of the hundreds and hundreds of pounds of rod I have burnt over the years has been 7018.

Filled lots of gaps with it, it just wont fill huge gaps, you needs somewhat good fit ups

 

[Oldpath05]

I bet 95% of the hundreds and hundreds of pounds of rod I have burnt over the years has been 7018.

Filled lots of gaps with it, it just wont fill huge gaps, you needs somewhat good fit ups

Yes, good fit up's, that's where I have the biggest problem, I cut something twice, and it's still to short, that why I like working with steel, I can just add on. It's harder for me to do that working with wood, I don't know how many time's I cut a 2X4 1" too short.