7018 vs 6013 vs everything else

[R W]

I would argue that for 99% of the jobs on this forum, there is no need for 7018 rod.


View attachment 354446
6013 is fine if someone knows how to use it. It might not be the best, or the strongest, but is still good rod I just get tired of hearing 7018, 7018, 7018 all of the time. yes, it is an excellent rod, and very strong. (not pertaining to this thread).....but a newbie welder that wants to weld a bracket or hook to something to hang a tool or whatnot, certainly dont need 7018. And given the difficulty of running 7018 on AC, for a newbie, look into other rods.

I am in total agreement with you.
7018 is an over kill in many situations

 

[dieselcrawler]

First picture is 7018 run on a AC buzz box. The second pictures is 7018 run on a DC welding machine.
See how the DC weld is much smoother, and more flowing lines to the weld? See how the AC weld is choppy, raged? That what I mean by wetting out.

So judging by your pictures and compairing them to mine... looks like I used DC rod on AC... ?

 

[Arc weld]

Dieselcrawler, your 7018 weld bead looks very good except you didn't allow it to fill in the undercut at the edges. I would run a quick bead with no weave to fill the undercut. That would eliminate the notch effect where a crack could start. For your application, 7018 was absolutely the best rod for the job!:thumbsup: Standard 7018 will work on AC, it's designed as an AC/DC+ rod. What Shield Arc was referring to was the way 7018 flows on AC current not how "DC" 7018 works on AC. That said, AC 7018 is specifically designed to be easier to use on AC current and give similar characteristics to 7018 on DC. Run standard 7018 on an industrial AC welder and it will run better than on a low end buzz box. Also different brands of 7018 can make a big difference.

As Mark said 7014 is a much better choice than 6013 and is usually a lot easier to use. For production you can use 7024 but if you want something strong, experienced welders will grab 7018 and depending on the application, 6010/6011. I think most people can understand that if you're welding something that doesn't need a lot of strength, any rod will work. Instead of people taking the time to practice using 7018, it's a lot easier to knock it as hard to use on AC and then claim it's overkill anyway. Doesn't it seem odd that experienced welders will choose 7018 and inexperienced welders will choose 6013? Sometimes there's no substitute for experience. Shield Arcs break tests certainly prove the difference between 6013 and 7018. I think understanding different loads and metallurgy goes a long way to understanding the different properties of welding rods and the applications for them. Welding is a lot more than just making sparks the easiest way possible. That's why there's a ton of theory involved in welding and if you're good, you can make the big bucks.

 

[R W]

As Mark said 7014 is a much better choice than 6013 and is usually a lot easier to use. .

I agree. In the 1970s, saw a lot of welding performed with a 7014 on bulldozers etc , and it was mostly satisfactory, to-day if I was doing similar jobs , would use a 7016 or 7018.

 

[stuckmotor]

7018 comes in AC rod, (7018AC) the difference is the flux coating.It runs excellent on ac. Don't let the guy at the supply house tell you it's all the same,it's not. Once you use it you will love it.

Even I can run Lincoln 7018 AC DC rods on my AC Tombstone. I get them at Lowes and the box says AC DC.

 

[lilranch2001]

I would argue that for 99% of the jobs on this forum, there is no need for 7018 rod.

Most everything I have done at home, with the stick, certainly isnt 7018. Cause on the old craftsman AC tapped machine, 7018 dont run at all. Flat out wont do it. But that machine has ran several hundred pounds of 6013, 7014.

We arent talking 1" thick plates here. Most of the stuff people on this forum (myself included) are dealing with is 1/8" - 1/4" stock. 6013 and 7014 are more than capable of good penetration on this stuff.

This trailer is about 20 years old now, and dont have a single weld on it that ISNT 6013. And has hauled MANY MANY loads of wood.
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6013 is fine if someone knows how to use it. It might not be the best, or the strongest, but is still good rod.

If you need to hang a 10 pound sign on the wall, and have the choice of using 1/4" x 3/4" fastners or 1/2" x 2" fastners, what would you do?? Sure the 1/2 x 2" fastners would penetrate more and hold more. But given that the sign will bend and tear and crumple long before the 1/4 x 3/4 fastners fail, is it really any better??

I have said my piece, and I will leave this thread alone now. I am by no means a "pro" weldor. I just get tired of hearing 7018, 7018, 7018 all of the time. yes, it is an excellent rod, and very strong. (not pertaining to this thread).....but a newbie welder that wants to weld a bracket or hook to something to hang a tool or whatnot, certainly dont need 7018. And given the difficulty of running 7018 on AC, for a newbie, look into other rods.

I agree, it is not the best nor the strongest.......
:thumbsup:

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I've used 6013 to weld the replacement lift ball ends on lift arms on Ford industrial and agricultural tractors with 6013. Works great as long as you chip and remove the slag between each pass, and take your time and not try to over fill each pass in the V groove. Also welded cutting edges in too (all that was provided at the time by the business owner I worked for). Never had a come back.

 

[lilranch2001]

You all may be right, 7018 is in many cased overkill.

I like it because I am comfortable with it
It is the rod I grew up with
It is the rod I know how it is going to act
I love watching the slag peel up as I run a perfect bead

The point is, everyone has what they like, some of us simply LIKE 7018

Atom Arc 7018 is my brand of choice

If you eat pizza, do you have cheese pizza because it is cheaper or easier to eat?
Or do you order meat lovers because you like it?

 

[Shield Arc]

I think for the majority of the members here 6013, and 7014 will work great for anything they're going to do. I never seen 7014, or 6013 on a structural job. When I worked in a fab shop we had 6013 on hand, but we never used it because we had Mig machines. I never heard of 7014 until joining these tractor sites, so I bought some. WOW! Childs play to run, that stuff is cool! I'm not impressed with 6013 just because it has no impact quality.
But I did bend tests with both 6013, and 7014. Not a flaw in either one, for most of us here do we need anything more? I say use what ever works best for you, but I'm a 7018 guy, but that comes from spending my whole life on structural jobs, and that's all they will buy for you. True 7018 is over kill for just about everything, even on the job. I guess the reason engineers require it is because it is over kill, but I really don't know why, but I can't remember ever seeing a set of drawing where at least 7018 was called for.

 

[Arc weld]

I guess it all depends on what you're welding and the reason they make so many different rods. I was thinking a lot people would be repairing things that broke or making their own implements and stuff where you don't want the welds and/or repairs to break. If you didn't have your own welder and had to call a guy out with his truck, you can be sure he wouldn't be using 6013. His reputation is on the line. 7018/AC7018 isn't some exotic rod with a fancy name that costs 10 times more than other rods. It's a little more expensive but the benefits certainly outweigh the slightly higher cost.

 

[Shield Arc]

What amazes me is, 6013 is widely used for high pressure pipe welding through out Europe. Not that I know anything about pipe welding, but I would guess if you used 6013 here in the states for pipe welding they would run you off!

 

[Arc weld]

I don't think any shops would meet ASME requirements. I much prefer welding with 7018 over 6013. It's predictable, you can see exactly what the puddle is doing and the slag doesn't get in the way. In certain tight area's you can still get a proper weld using an odd rod angle, including pushing. It takes some practice but you can make 7018 fingernail on purpose to keep the slag out of the way. 7018 even works for blind welds where you can't even see what you're doing.

 

[Shield Arc]

I never ran much 6013, never really gave it much thought until joining these tractor forums. So I bought some to give it a try. My first pass I ran it like I would 7018. Whoa! That was a mistake!:shocked: I learned right away you have to give it more angle. Once you do that, it's really easy to run.

 

[CNC Dan]

What amazes me is, 6013 is widely used for high pressure pipe welding through out Europe. Not that I know anything about pipe welding, but I would guess if you used 6013 here in the states for pipe welding they would run you off!

Somewhere I read that in europe they have several kinds of 6013. So I think that that explains why they use that rod for everything.

 

[Shield Arc]

You know Dan I was wonder about that! There is a guy on a lot of the welding forums who lives in Northern Ireland. The guy is amazing with 6013, he works in a pipe fabrication shop. His welds are nothing short of inspirational to say the least.

 

[rankrank1]

I actually like 6013 for some things. It is one of my favorites for parts build up that I will then be free hand shaping with handheld power tools such as 4.5 grinder or even more so when using a rotary carbide burr in a die grinder. 6013 cuts much more similar to virgin mild steel compared to other rods (or mig)which makes backyard hack machining operations much easier when working with primitive tools.

I imagine I would use 6013 even more than I do now if I did not have my mig unit. I think I could easily get by using 5/64" 6013 for thinner metals if no wire feeder available. I typically keep both 6013 in 5/64" and 7014 1/16" for just those occasions when I might run out wire. If my wire feeder ever dies then I might not even replace it since I rarely weld on anything less than 1/16" anyhow.

 

[EMB5530]

Where have you ran across 1/16" 7014? The only 1/16" rod I have ever found is 6013. The welding store I go to (Matheson) does not keep any 1/16" rod in stock. The only place I have found 1/16" is Harbor Freight and Home Depot.

 

[rankrank1]

Menard's carries 7014 in both 1/16" and 5/64" diameters in US Forge Brand (US Forge is Messer which is good stuff).
Menard's also carries 6013 in 5/64"

TSC and Rural King also carry 1/16" diameters in Hobart.

Some Ace Hardware may carry 1/16" in 7014 in Forney which is now made by ???? since Forney closed their rod plant a couple years ago. Quality could be hit-n-miss.

I have also used the Horrible Freight 7014 in 1/16" and it is usable but that is about all I can say for it. I do not care for the HF 6013 at all.

In reality, I hate all 1/16" diameter rods, but the ease of 7014 makes it borderline tolerable. I actually do not mind the 5/64" rods. They are typically shorter than standard and have just enough diameter to not flex all over the place.

I pretty much buy my rods at either Menard's or Rural King now as they have best selection as well as decent prices.

 

[LD1]

But I did bend tests with both 6013, and 7014. Not a flaw in either one, for most of us here do we need anything more?

That has been my experience too. When the rod is stronger than the base metal, who cares if its 1.5x's stronger, 2x's, or 10x's. the added strength dont really gain a whole lot. And while I dont hang heavy structural iron for a living, I have made lots of things with 6013 and 7014 and not one failure.

I have also ran alot of 7018 from several different welders. Stuff runs great too. But on the old craftsman tapped buzzbox at home, 7018 just flat out wont run. Even the AC variety. Dont know what it is about the welder, but I know it isnt me cause any other welder I can run 7018 beautifully. But all of those have been DC machines. So I guess if given a choice, and was on a DC machine, I'd likely opt for the 7018, and use 7014 or 6013 for tacking things, mainly due to ease of restart. But for home, its 7014 as my go-to rod.

What amazes me is, 6013 is widely used for high pressure pipe welding through out Europe. Not that I know anything about pipe welding, but I would guess if you used 6013 here in the states for pipe welding they would run you off!

Well, if it is strong enough for pipes in europe....I am sure it is fine for what most of us here do.

That statement though kinda makes me think of those disclaimers that read something like "This product is known to the state of CA to cause cancer in lab rats":laughing:

Well, since I aint a rat and I live in Ohio, I got nothin' to worry about:thumbsup:

 

[bdog]

Kind of off topic but why do people typically do a first pass with a 6010 and then cover it up with a 7018? Why not just use a 7018?

For me the cost of rods is negligible compared to my time and the down time if something breaks. I weld pretty much everything with 6010 (5P+) but would consider 7018 if it was all purpose but I am not familiar with it enough to know if there are certain situations where you shouldn't use it or if the first pass of a 6010 is always required. As to the 6013 if it is inferior why buy it? Is it that much cheaper? Sounds like it is adequate so I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I had some but I wouldn't go buy some if I knew something better for the sAme cost was out there.