6010 vs 6011

[Shield Arc]

Here is the inside of a 2-inch open root pipe welded with 3/32-inch 10P, (6010).

Here are some open root pipe test coupons I did with Hobart's 335A 6011. I don't run much 6011, but I really like this Hobart rod.

 

[gauthier]

They are still kinda goldish

 

[rjmack]

one rod is sodium cellulose flux, and the other is sodium potassium, or something like that (it's been a while)

i find that 6010 is actually easier to run because it burns cleaner, the likelihood of slag inclusion is lower. that's why it is a better rod to run downhill.

in sawmills there is a lot of chuting, underneath equipment, that is designed to direct/contain waste wood/chips etc into conveyors. this is generally welded using 6011, even though it doesn't run quite as clean downhill, because it is more ductile than 6010 and better suited for vibration/shock loading.

 

[EddieWalker]

Gonna jump in here and expose my ignorance.

I have an older AC/DC arc welder that I use for repairs and modifictions of impliments. Lately I've been welding up sopports and fixing cracks on my rotary cutter.

For some reason that I can't explain, I've been using 6013 for everything that I do.

Would I be better off with 6010, 6011 or the 6013?

Thank you,
Edide

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

The 13 is the best for that type work. Its smooth and easy welding.

 

[rjmack]

I have an older AC/DC arc welder that I use for repairs and modifictions of impliments. Lately I've been welding up sopports and fixing cracks on my rotary cutter.

i would agree that, if you only have a/c weld current, 6013 would probably be the best.

if you have d/c current, and can reasonably clean the area to be welded, then 7018 is probably the best answer. it is more durable than any of the other mentioned rods.

unfortunately, 7018 is a slower running rod that imparts more heat into the parent metal, and it requires a fairly high skill level (and a lot of heat) to run downhill... this leads to problems welding relatively thin metals.

depending on how thin the metal is, you may be able to take a 3/32 7018 rod and smack it against something solid and break the flux off, then place it along the crack in the same way you would lay a rod to tig or gas weld or braze. you then weave another 7018 3/32 with the flux on it, running between 80-100 dc amps, over top. this technique basically substitutes the burning 7018 rod for the gas or tig torch. as well it results in a larger weld deposit with a lower heat input than would normally be possible using this rod.

it may sound kind of tricky but once you get used to it, it's really a very handy solution to a wide range of problems.

it's really hard to beat the ductility of 7018, and when you pile it on large and wide you can really strengthen an otherwise weak area.

i'm not saying that it won't just crack next to the repair weld at some point, but if it does you can just pile on another layer next to the one that's already there and eventually the whole area will be built up to a larger thickness and subsequent strength.

 

[gauthier]

Best thing for you to do eddy,is get you a few of each and try them,,you can use dc electrode positive with all three,even though some rods can be used on ac,dcep is the way to go as opposed to ac,if you have the choice.If one don't want to run as good on dc,than don't use that rod,use dcep if you can.

I only have 6010 5p +,,most anything you will be welding on they will do in my opinion,a better job than 7018,,better all round rod,,[plus you don't need to worry about a rod oven],on most steel,,only time a 7018 might be needed is if you was fabing something thicker,say 1/2 inch thick and up,,and even than most would run root and hot with 6010 and out with 7018,,reason is a 6010 is a deeper penatrating rod than 7018,,and if its an open root as opposed to a fillit,7018 don't work to well,,also 7018 won't work very good downhill either[on your vertical welds].

As far as ductility[which is more ductile] that ain't an issue.All the rods you mentioned will beat the steel you would be welding on.

 

[rjmack]

As far as ductility[which is more ductile] that ain't an issue.All the rods you mentioned will beat the steel you would be welding on.

actually, i think that's highly unlikely. the odds are that the deck is more ductile than any of the rods mentioned, including 7018.

i realize it is a generalization, and there are always exceptions, but the lower the tensile strength, the more ductile a metal usually is (with the exception of metals that readily work harden like aluminum and copper). the deck is probably much lower tensile strength than any of the rods.

far as needing a rod oven for 7018, that really isn't the case. i have gone on many jobs where the contractor left the rods from the last job in the c-can over the winter and trotted them out for us to use as-is. the structural steel on many industrial facilities have been welding using rods that were 'crusty' to say the least.

the main thing with 7018 for home use is to keep it at or above the ambient room temperature in order to avoid a situation where the rods are cold enough to draw condensation out of the air. basically, just keep them in the house somewhere that stays warm and dry and you should be fine.

i have always been taught to avoid ac weld current unless it is a last resort, so my experience with 6013 is limited, but i assume it is a more ductile rod than 6010 or 6011.

the main difference between 6010 and 7018 is that when you weld over a crack on thin metal, when the crack re-emerges with 6010, it will probably split along the centerline of the weld, assuming the weld runs along the centerline of the crack. 7018 will crack along the edge of the weld.

using the trick of breaking the flux off a 7018 rod and using it for a filler rod also works with any of the other mentioned rods as well.

the problem most guys have is that they don't understand the metallurgy behind the problems that they are trying to solve. there is a triangle that signifies the relationship between properties of metals. again, it has been many years, but i think the corners are labelled hardness, ductility, and strength (tensile). any metal can be placed somewhere within that triangle, the point being that if you move closer to one corner, you move further away from the other two.

 

[gauthier]

That may be true,the deck is more ductile than 6010 or 7018,bet it is,,but what does that mean really? who cares if the mower deck is more ductile than weld in this case? And I'll bet both 7018 and 6010 are about the same as far as ductility,,,,,remember,you are the one who brought up ductility,not me,saying 7018 was more ductile than 6010,,sounds like you are making my case for me,,,which is,,for your average backyard welder using a stick machine,a 6010,a 7018 a 6011 a 6013 weld will be stronger than the base metal if made correctly,,Ductility,,who cares in this case.?

I can think of many reasons I don't want to use a 7018 rod,[as opposed to a 6010 ],,ductility ain't one of them.

 

[rjmack]

That may be true,the deck is more ductile than 6010 or 7018,bet it is,,but what does that mean really? who cares if the mower deck is more ductile than weld in this case?

what i'm getting at is that you have to try to identify the properties of the parent metal before you can make an intelligent choice with regard to selection of electrode or weld process.

And I'll bet both 7018 and 6010 are about the same as far as ductility

that's a poor bet. there's a reason you don't use 6010 for tacking. (at least structural steel) and if you use 6010 root tacks on a pipe joint, most codes require that you complete the root (6010) and hot pass (7018) before you take a break or allow it to cool.

I can think of many reasons I don't want to use a 7018 rod,[as opposed to a 6010 ],,ductility ain't one of them.

i'm not sure i understand exactly what you mean. basically, i always reach for 7018 first (if i have a stick machine handy- i'm usually working outside), if circumstances dictate that something else has to be done then i'll go with that.

6010 and 6011 are also very handy where you can't get all the grease/rust etc off the weld zone. often times it is better to burn a 6010 first, just to clean off the debris.

the bottom line is that eddie can probably goop that mower deck together with just about anything but, for me at least, it's always nicer to sort of understand what you are doing rather than guessing blindly and hoping for the best.:thumbsup: