6010 vs 6011

[Mark @ Everlast]

6013 is has good ductility. Its a fast fill rod and works great on sheet metal, and anything in general. Some people call it the "sheet metal rod". Its a fine rod for build up and general repair. Its not for bridges, but holds great for welding up to 3/8" steel. For the application, and the price, there is NO better rod. It will weld AC or DC btw.

7018 rods are fine for general repair even if they aren't "heated". Not much concern about underbead cracking on sheet metal. But anything to code should be dry and hot. 6011's work well and are a general "farm" rod. The arc is stable and the rod is fairly easy to use and can even pass for 6010 work when called upon. Farmers are a little lazy when it comes to cleaning a weld properly and is probably why so many are sold. 6010's are just cantankerous enough not to be everyone's cup of tea. Hard starts and sticking are common complaints even with moderately experienced welders. They have penetration and are the standard for root pass welding, but 7018's are what show on top, with the 6010 usually being backgouged to a razor thin layer. Some 6010 is done all the way out...But What I think I see developing here in this discussion is a matter of personal experience, preference and regional practices, not necessarily world wide standards. There are plenty of "books" and literature that discuss the primary application of all these rods. Its easy enough to confirm what is right and standard for use.

 

[rjmack]

Some people call it the "sheet metal rod". Its a fine rod for build up and general repair. Its not for bridges, but holds great for welding up to 3/8" steel. For the application, and the price, there is NO better rod. It will weld AC or DC btw.

i'm sure 6013 is handy for what it is designed for, all the same, i have never seen it on a construction site in my life, and that includes a number of different industries.

i have been without a stick machine since i sold my rig 10 years ago. hopefully i can find an old roundbarrel lincoln to use around the property. when i do i'm going to go buy some 6013 just 'because'. :laughing:

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I was talking to some guys welding in E. Europe and Asia, and they said they never use a 6010, but use a 6013. :laughing:

It would take a lot less backgouging, that's for sure.

I've welded with a lot of different rods, 6013,6011, 6010,7014, 7018, 7018AC, 7028, 309L,NiCast, and a few that were "mystery" rods. All have their place and application. A lot will feel comfortable out of their intended application, but one the one that shines in the application, is the one that was designed for it. There are many subdivisions now in the rod species. They are more fine tuned to special applications, with a little different flux composition, alloy percent or something, but are still within the major definition of the rod species. There is no one size fits all rod, except maybe 6011 does the best job at G.P. use. But it isn't used commonly as it could be in the construction industry. But I doubt there are very few portable repair guys that don't have the 6011 as their back up rod in almost all situations. You can even use 6011 to weld cast iron to steel for wrought iron and decorative fencing. Its best to use a Nickel rod, but the 6011 isn't bad and a whole lot more cheaper.

Personally, I keep 6011, 7018, and 6013 around. I also have a box of 7014's just in case.

 

[Shield Arc]

On a couple other sites there is a member who works as a pipe weldor in Ireland. He says 6013 is used all over Europe for pressure pipe fabrication.
Here is one of his 6013 welds.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

No stringers either!!! Brings a tear to my eye.

Welding schools are teaching students how to run stringers....which work and are "safe"...but it doesn't develop skill level, nor does it promote the aesthetic part of welding. Any one can drag a stick in a straight line. It takes an artist to make a weld like that above.

 

[gauthier]

Rjmack,,Of course you got to know what material your welding,we was talking mower decks or whatever the average guy would be welding on around his house or farm wasn't we?If thats the case all the rods mentioned will work just fine,just depends on what a person has or what kinda machine he's got.

The reason you don't tack with a 6010 on structural stuff is that even if it is just mild steel,code book[d1.1] says you have to use a lo/hi process.And by the way,if a 7018 is not kept properly[oven],it is not lo/hi anymores.

Most codes don't require you to finish hot pass before taking a break,common sense and the welding procedure does,general rule is 1/3 the thickness be done,,and generally you run hot with same process you do root,not always but generally I would say.

What I mean by I prefer using a 6010 type rod for piddleing around with at home is...don't need to worry about a rod oven,,its deeper penatrating than a 7018,can put an open root in with it[yeah,,I know you can with a 7018 too,but 7018 is not made to put open roots in with,,],can run it down hill[yeah I know you can weld down with 7018,,but again,it ain't made for it],,easier restarts,and I started out on gas lines

Always better to clean weld area off by grinding,brushing burning,whatever,than trying to weld it off:laughing:,,speaking of codes,they all say to do this

 

[gauthier]

I believe that was rolled:laughing:,,least its not gold

 

[Shield Arc]

No stringers either!!! Brings a tear to my eye.

Welding schools are teaching students how to run stringers....which work and are "safe"...but it doesn't develop skill level, nor does it promote the aesthetic part of welding. Any one can drag a stick in a straight line. It takes an artist to make a weld like that above.

Mark he is the best with 6013 I have ever seen. Also one of the best at capping I've ever seen.

 

[rjmack]

The reason you don't tack with a 6010 on structural stuff is that even if it is just mild steel,code book[d1.1] says you have to use a lo/hi process.And by the way,if a 7018 is not kept properly[oven],it is not lo/hi anymores.

the reason you don't use 6010 for tacking structural steel is because the tacks break, they won't stand up to the flexing that goes on while you are tacking and moving things around and into position. (they aren't ductile enough)

far as that 6013 cap goes, i can see i'm going to have to take my camera to work:laughing: that weld looks a lot like a 7018 run a few (10-15) amps too cold.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

6013 runs a lot like 7018, but easier. It is a fast deposition rod. All those old school public training videos from the 50's and 60's that show the flux curling up behind the rod were welding with a 6013. But as far as too cold? It looks just right to me.

 

[gauthier]

Rjmack,go get you a copy of the structual welding code aws d1.1,it says to only use a low hi welding process,,,if you wasn't welding to that code than you wouldn't need to,and don't believe that a 6010 weld would be less ductile than a 7018,less tensile strength, but not less ductile,,just looked up something along those lines in an old welding book I got,,according to it and aws A5.1 from which they got it from,the elongation standards,which is measured by a tensile test[how far it streaches before it breaks],is both 22 percent in a 2 inch area measured after section is pulled till it breaks,in other words both have to meet same standards as far as ductility.

 

[Shield Arc]

It looks just right to me.

Me too!

About as close to perfect as it gets.

 

[rjmack]

About as close to perfect as it gets.

i can see we'll have to revisit this

 

[Shield Arc]

i can see we'll have to revisit this

If you can beat that

 

[gauthier]

Rjmack,being the man I am:laughing: I actually went and looked in an old d1.1,and it will let you use 6010 in a few instances,most every thing in the book though calls for lo/hi,and in all cases I've ever been around as far as structual,its lo/hi,,might be cases of welding structual pipe where root could be put in with a non lo/hi....so,,,,,

 

[gauthier]

Thats the way all mine used to look back in the day and I didn't roll it either:laughing: