4700 or 5210?

[TREEFARMER2]

I've been "lurking" around this site for a few weeks and have gotten invaluable information. I'm down to the wire on making a decision about a tractor 4700 or 5210. I like the manuverability of the 4700 but am concerned about the durability. Both of the tractor and the FEL. I will be spending a lot of time using a rake and grapple attachment and heavy bush-hogging. I am thinking that the 4700 might work with skid plates for protection and ballast in the tires or should I just forget it and go with the 5210? Any insight on the durability of the FEL would be helpful.

 

[dmccarty]

TreeFarmer2,

If you have not done so, look through the JD forums and you will see a few conversations about 4700s and/vs 5000 series tractors.

I looked at the 4700, 5105, 5205, 5210, and 5310 tractors. For my use the 4700 was the best bang for the buck. I hvae 53 acres all of which was 70ish year old timber. We had parts of it selectivedly timbered. I'm cleaning up the mess from the timber operation and making 5 or so acres of pasture with the 4700. I've used the 4700 to cleanup timber slash, clean up down trees from hurricanes, pull stumps, clean up my road( a never ending chore so far), clear land for a house site as well as a 500 foot long driveway.

I have the 460 FEL with a 4n1 bucket and it is invaluable. I use it constantly. The only problem I had with the FEL was the dealer setup which was not done correctly. I documented this in some other conversations but the bottom line is that the dealer fixed the problems ASAP and to my complete satisfaction. And in the long run, I think the setup problems will work out to my benefit since I built up a good relationship with the dealership.

I have LOTS of brush and timber slash to move. The 4n1 can do this but I think if I had a bucket with the brush grapples it would work better. The problem is I have to push the slash before I can grab it. I'm not sure how well a bucket with the brush grapples would push. If that makes sense. I supposed it would work ok but I think the 4n1 would push the slash easier and the 4n1 certainly can grab the slash it just takes a bit of technique and I don't think it gets as much as a brush bucket would. On the other hand I really don't have to pick up that much slash, just push it up in burn piles.

I have close to 180 hours on the tractor that I bought at the end of October in 2000. Once the FEL was setup correctly I have had no problems. I just works. And I use it HARD. I have dug up oak stumps with a JD48 backhoe and moved them with the tractor. Only one big, huge, heavy 36 inch bad boy really taxed the tractor. I got it out but it took 99% of the capacity of the tractor.

You should ballast the tires. Skid plates would be nice but I don't have them. When I in "bulldoze" mode I have a couple of rules. Keep you head moving. Always look around, keep your situational awareness sharp. DONT allow the tractor to run over to much timber slash. Its unavoidable at times since you cant see it all but I try not to run stuff over. I open the 4n1 bucket up so that the "dozer" blade is used and the rest of the bucket provides some protection to the front of the tractor. When pushing timber slash DONT allow the wood to bend back and touch the tractor. Put the tractor in reverse, back out and push at a different spot.

Another thing I do is to walk through the area to be cleared with a chain saw to cut up downed slash into 6 to 8 foot long lengths. If you don't do this you just end up with a long windrow of timber. Its very hard if not impossible to make small piles since the different lengths of slash will overlap and make a long mess.

A bulldozer would do this quicker but I have seen them make a bigger mess and since I don't have the cash I have to spend the time.... I did see a bulldozer doing some land clearning for a road expansion project. I swear the blade on that thing was 20-30 feet long. It could certainly clear my 5-6 acres ASAP! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Rotary cutters. I have an MX-6 but I have only put a handfull of hours on the implement. It can handle 2 inch thick material. The heavier duty cutters have some high PTO HP requirements. If you need to handle 4 inch material check the PTO HP requirements to see if the 4700 can handle the cutter. Course I have never figured out how you could run over 2 inch saplings much less 4 inch trees........

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

 

[TREEFARMER2]

Dan,
Thanks for your reply. I think I've read every post on this forum which has helped a lot. Anyhow, the dealer loaned me a JD 4500 with FEL to try out. I was amazed at what the the little tractor will do. After much agonizing and driving tractors around the dealer's lot I decided to buy a 5210 MFD w/ FEL. I picked up the tractor this past Saturday and drove it to my timberland. Unloaded the tractor and realized just how large it was. I had trouble driving it down the rows of planted pine trees. I just made a very bad mistake. I loaded up the tractor and took back to the dealer who was now closed. First thing Monday I called the dealer and told him I had made a bad mistake and what could I do to work it out. He said it wasn't any problem, he would take it back and give me a price on a 4700. I told him that I would pay whatever it took to get out of the 5210 since he shouldn't have to pay for my mistake. He wouldn't hear of it. I offered to at least pay the labor for putting on the FEL, he wouldn't take it. Anyhow he gave me a good price on the 4700 (I had several other quotes which he beat even though he had me "over a barrell"). I also got a FEL w/ HD bucket, tooth bar and a root rake with a grapple by Anbo manufacturing (www.anbomanufacturing.com). To top it off I asked the dealer about a backhoe. He said he would be glad to sell me one but he had another customer who was trying to get of one (model 48) and to call him. I just got back from picking up the backhoe for $3,500. I couldn't tell it had hardly been used. The seller had a small tracked excavator and didn't need both. Should pick up the tractor in about a week, I'll keep you posted.

 

[cowboydoc]

Treefarmer,
You got a hell of a deal on that backhoe. New those are pretty close to 7k. I've been waiting for a deal like the one you got. 3500 I could justify but 7k is tough.

 

[MJB]

I got a price of $6200 for my 48 backhoe with an 18" bucket when I bought my 4300. The standard bucket width in 12" but it seems to handle the 18" without any trouble. That $3500 price is a steal if the unit is in good condition. One thing to watch however is the mounting brackets. There are different brackets for the hoe to mount on the mid size Deeres (4300, 4400) versus the large ones (4500, 4600, 4700) so you may have to get your dealer to switch the mounting hardware if it doesn't have the right ones. Good luck.

Fugitive from the Cubicle Police

 

[dmccarty]

TreeFarmer2,

WOW and WOW. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I'm very happy that the dealer treated you so well. I have a great dealer. Your dealer seems even better than mine and thats hard to do....

You got a great price on the JD48. The sale price is around 7,000 for a new one. You will need a power beyond kit on the tractor to hook up the JD48. The only problem I have had on the tractor so far is a leak in a quick disconnect on the power beyond kit. I'm looking at a diagram of the power beyond kit at the moment that the dealer faxed me this morning so I can get the part number of the coupler.

I just remembered I did break a bolt on the JD 48 that holds the pin in place which in turn holds the boom and dipper stick togather. Not a big deal considering the work I had done.

I have dug up a lot of stumps with the 48 and I'm impressed with it. Its not a full blown backhoe but that means you just take a bit more time digging things out. Just keep the JD 48 lubed. Its every 10 hours of operation.

I'm glad everything worked out the way it did. Usually one only heres of BAD dealers. Its nice to hear of one doing the right thing....

Good Luck on the new tractor.
Dan McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

{for you Dan...maybe a cleaner diagram}
Power Beyond Kit for 4700

PC 2693-4500/4600/4700 COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS HYDRAULICS
REAR AUXILIARY HYDRAULIC KIT

CHIAVENO.RICAMBIO DESCRIZIONE QTA SERIAL NO. NOTE
DEL RESERVDELSNR.BESKRIVNING ANTA SERIAL NO. ANMERKNINGAR
KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS
POS. NO.PIEZA DESCRIPCION CANT SERIAL NO. NOTAS
REP. REFERENCE DESCRIPTION QUT. SERIAL NO. REMARQUES
TEIL STCK.NR. BEZEICHNUNG STCK SERIAL NO. BEMERKUNGEN

1 T77932 O-RING 5
2 AM126715 OIL LINE 1
3 AM126714 OIL LINE 1
4 14M7396 LOCK NUT 1 M8
5 R115772 CLAMP 2
6 19M8126 SCREW 1 M8 X 45
7 M136408 DECAL 1
8 T80306 NUT 2
9 14M7298 FLANGE NUT 2 M8
10 19M7866 SCREW 2 M8 X 20
11 M135787 PLATE 1
12 AM126987 FITTING 1
13 AW25301 HYD. EXTERNAL HALF COUPLE 1
14 61H1286 ADAPTER 1
15 W42990 CAP 1
16 AM127004 HYDRAULIC HOSE 1
17 61H1005 ELBOW FITTING 1
18 AR94522 HYD. INTERNAL HALF COUPLE 1
19 W42411 CAP 1
20 61M5003 ADAPTER 1 (INCLUDES 38H5003, 51M7043 AND T77857)
21 61H1083 ELBOW FITTING 1
22 AM105467 HYD. INTERNAL HALF COUPLE 1
23 R26375 O-RING 1
.. BM19587 KIT 1 POWER BEYOND (AUXILIARY HYDRAULIC)

 

[TREEFARMER2]

I thought the price on the backhoe was pretty good too, thats why I didn't waste any time getting it. The only thing I didn't like about it is that it has a 24" bucket, I would have preferred to have a 12" for digging stumps. But since I've never used a backhoe before, it may work fine, we'll see. As far as the brackets are concerned it came off a year old 4700 so it should "fit". I'm taking it to the dealer tommorrow to let him set it up. By the way, if anyone wants to know the dealer is Randy Brack at Southside in Milledgeville, GA. Luck would have it I'm leaving for vacation Friday and want get to use it for at least another week. Now if I could take another week off to play with the tractor? We'll see.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: 4700 or 5210? John Miller III

John,
I saw your post (for the 4700 power beyond kit) and have read a number of others and it seems you have access to a vast array of JD diagrams. Perhaps you could answer a question for me. I'd like to add a set of rear remotes on my 1070, activated via a 1 spool valve, to run a hydraulic top link. Do you know if JD makes a power beyond kit that includes a 1 spool valve or is this project going to require some extra plumbing?? Thanks for any help you can pass along.

Russ

 

[patton]

That's funny you should mention his name. I bought my 1050 (used) from him. Only thing I don't like is he doesn't advertise prices in "Tractor Trader". I was very impressed with his knowledge and honesty. I have a real good BS detector when it comes to tractors as the past owner of several and an Ag Engineer by degree.

He put me onto a off brand bush hog from a company called Dale Phillips, that is almost indestructable. He said (IIRC) it was heaver than anything sold by Deere and almost as heavy as the biggest Bush Hog. He tried to steer me to something a bit lighter, but I had seen to many weaker ones destroyed. When I saw the deck was 1/4 plate (with renforcing ribs) and the side were channel iron, I was sold. While I chained the 1050 down as they drove it on the trailer, one of the mechanics discretely double checked the tiedowns when he thought I wasn't looking.

I'll be getting a price from him soon on another tractor. If he were closer, I probally wouldn't even shop arround, but he is a 3 hr drive or so away.

Pat

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: 4700 or 5210? John Miller III

PC 2228-870, 970 AND 1070 COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS HYDRAULICS
REAR AUXILIARY LINK KIT

8 9 0
7 7 7
KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. 0 0 0 REMARKS

1 19M7881 SCREW 1 M8 X 20 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 1 8.100 MM
2 AM876687 CLAMP 1 (INCLUDES M802950)
3 AM877598 HYDRAULIC LINE 1 PRESSURE
4 19M7162 CAP SCREW 2 M8 X 16
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 2 8.100 MM
5 AM108399 BRACKET 1 X
AM108400 BRACKET 1 X X (SUB FOR M804943)
6 M72810 LABEL 1 (E)
M76402 LABEL 1 (F)
M93620 LABEL 1 (G)
7 ........ BRACKET NA (NOT USED THIS APPLICATION)
8 24M7051 WASHER 1 21 X 37 X 3 MM
9 T78716 NUT 1
10 AM105465 HYDRAULIC HOSE 1
11 R26375 O-RING 2
12 AM105467 INTERNAL HALF COUPLER 1
13 AM105466 HYD. QUICK-CONNECT COUPLE 1 (USED ON TRACTOR WITHOUT SCV)
14 M42702 SNAP RING 1
15 T77857 O-RING 1
16 M804944 SUPPORT 1
17 14M7273 NUT 2 M8
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 2 8.100 MM
18 19M7646 CAP SCREW 2 M14 X 25
12M7068 LOCK WASHER 2 14.200 MM
19 AM877599 HYDRAULIC LINE 1
20 M800848 GASKET 4
21 M800853 BOLT 2
22 AM877597 HYDRAULIC LINE 1
23 M802950 CLAMP 1
.. BM18010 KIT 1 REAR AUXILIARY HYDRAULIC, (SUB FOR
AM108271)

(E) ENGLISH/ANGLAIS/ENGLISCH
(F) FRENCH/FRANCAIS/FRANZOESISCH
(G) GERMAN/ALLEMAND/DEUTSCH

{Sorry Russ, not ignoring you… I just saw your post…Ooops}

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: 4700 or 5210? John Miller III

PC 2228-870, 970 AND 1070 COMPACT UTILITY TRACTORS HYDRAULICS
SCV VALVE AND LINES

KEY PART NO. PART NAME QTY SERIAL NO. REMARKS

1 CH11985 KNOB 1
2 AM877617 LEVER 1 SCV CONTROL
3 19M7881 SCREW 3 M8 X 20 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 3 8.100 MM
4 M800853 BOLT 10
5 M800848 GASKET 20
6 12M7065 LOCK WASHER 3 8.100 MM
7 19M7185 CAP SCREW 3 M8 X 60
8 AM877608 VALVE 1 (SUB AM117015, AM117498, M803644, 19M7077,
24M7054, (2) M803681, (2) 11M7076, (4)
19M7560 AND (5) 12M7066)
9 AM877614 LINE 1 PRESSURE
10 AR21839 CLAMP 5 (SUB FOR M800675)
11 M801935 CLAMP 5
12 AM877615 LINE 1
13 AM876687 CLAMP 1
14 19M8425 CAP SCREW 5 M6 X 16 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7006 LOCK WASHER 5 6.100 MM
15 M804968 COVER 1 LEVER GUIDE
16 M804967 SUPPORT 1 CLAMP
17 15H275 PIPE PLUG 1 1/4"
18 AM877610 LINE 1 PRESSURE
19 AM877612 LINE 1 PRESSURE
20 AM877613 LINE 1 PRESSURE
21 AM877611 LINE 1 PRESSURE
22 19M7938 CAP SCREW 5 M10 X 20 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7066 LOCK WASHER 5 10.200 MM
23 AM877616 LINE 1 SUCTION
24 AM877618 BRACKET 1 SCV
25 AM877619 BRACKET 1 SCV COUPLER
AM878210 BRACKET 1 (870 DRAFT SENSING VERSION; 1070 CREEPER
VERSION)
26 14M7273 NUT 2 M8
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 2 8.100 MM
27 M804966 SUPPORT 1 SCV COUPLER
28 19M7881 SCREW 2 M8 X 20 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 2 8.100 MM
24M7055 WASHER 2 8.400 X 16 X 1.600 MM
29 M803679 LABEL 1 SCV COUPLER
30 M90604 LABEL 1 SCV LEVER (SUB FOR M803677)
31 M803678 LABEL 1 SCV LOCK
32 M805108 CLAMP 1
AM877720 CLAMP 1 (W/WELDED NUT)
33 19M7881 SCREW 1 M8 X 20 (HS, HEAD MARKED 10.9)
12M7065 LOCK WASHER 1 8.100 MM
24M7055 WASHER 1 8.400 X 16 X 1.600 MM
34 M42702 SNAP RING 4
35 AM105466 HYD. QUICK-CONNECT COUPLE 4 3/8" FEMALE
36 ET15511 CAP 4
37 R26375 O-RING 4
CH13731 PACKING 4 (870 DRAFT SENSING VERSION; 1070 CREEPER
VERSION)

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: 4700 or 5210? John Miller III

Thanks John,

That ought to be enough to get me in trouble /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Russ

 

[gvw]

Patton - I would appreciate any information that you can share on the "Dale Phillips" brush hog - sounds like what I am looking for. I need to find out if they have a dealer in Colorado. Thanks - Garry