4310 Mid Mount PTO operation

Anonymous Poster · Apr 30, 2003

I am looking to buy a 4310 with ehydro to replace my 15 year old JD 755. The 755 with 60" MMM and FEL has been an excellent tractor. I read through the 4310 owners manual available on-line and was quite disappointed that the rear PTO must be engaged to operate the mid PTO. I have been so very happy with my 755 because it was designed so well. Maybe I have been out of touch all these years but I consider the PTO operation on the 4310 to be a design flaw. There are occasions when I want to use the MMM with a PTO driven attachment on the rear, such as using the bush hog. I do not want the bush hog turning when I want to use the MMM to do a little finish cutting. I also do not like the warnings in the manual that the PTO activation must be done in the proper sequence to avoid damaging the tractor. I an interested in hearing from other current owners on this. Maybe I have been spoiled by my 755 which allows independant operation of the PTOs as well as both together. I have other questions but will start with this one first as it is most likely going to keep from buying the 4310 at this time. Thanks,

Jeff

Anonymous Poster · May 1, 2003

I dont know how to link you to a previous thread, but the one My 4410 is arriving Saturday in the JD pricing forum I agree with your assesment of the mid pto design flaw. Why not detent the selector to safley select mid (click) and then rear (click) to do the same operation its all electronic anyway? Other then this my 4410 is great. The eHydro is a wonder to use . /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MJB · May 1, 2003

That is the way my 4300 works also. The design was most likely changed as a cost reduction. Way back when I was researching my tractor I read somewhere that Deere put together some kind of survey or focus group to decide which features were the most desireable to the consumer. The independent mid and rear PTO ranked low on the list for most users so it was left out of the 4000 series design. The mid PTO needs to be engaged before the rear PTO is started since the mid PTO is coupled to the rear PTO with a sliding coupler in the transmission. Engaging the mid PTO with the rear PTO running would be like trying to change gears in a manual transmission under load without pushing in the clutch. Not good. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 1, 2003

Thanks for the feedback. I was just surprised the JD would design something like this. The lack of independant operation is one thing but not putting some sort of interlock on the mid PTO switch to prevent operation if the rear PTO is engaged is nuts. I guess I will just have to get over this if I want a new tractor bigger than what I have now.

Jeff

hazmat · May 1, 2003

I guess I will just have to get over this if I want a new tractor bigger than what I have now.


Or you could shop a different brand. My New Holland has seperate engagement of the PTO's.

Anonymous Poster · May 1, 2003

Or you could shop a different brand. My New Holland has seperate engagement of the PTO's.

 
Very good point. I researched the market in 1988 when I bought my 755. At the time JD had it all over the competition for HST compacts, at least in my opinion. Ford, which I think now is New Holland was my number 2 choice. The implements (MMM and FEL) were much easier to take off the JD and the differential lock was under the left heel. All other manufacturers had it under the right heel as in a geared tractor. I still remember the Case salesman's response when I asked him how I was supposed to operate the differential lock and still provide pressure against the hydro pedal. He suggested that I could push the lever down with my hand. Not having three hands to steer, operate FEL, and press diff lock, I walked away. I will look at the New Holland line up. Can you recommend a model equivalent to the 4310?

thcri · May 2, 2003

The 4310 is equivalent to the New Holland TC33D. You will find the differential lock under your left heel. I have the 29, kind of wished I would have gone up to the 33 but I had already jumped from the 25 to the 29. And the PTO's are independent of each other and are live with the Hydro version. I will say though that John Deere does have a little better design on removing and installing the MMM. But then New Holland you can pin the MMM up when using your 3 point hitch. As far as removing the loader I like the New Holland over the John Deere.

murph

murph

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2003

I still remember the Case salesman's response when I asked him how I was supposed to operate the differential lock and still provide pressure against the hydro pedal. He suggested that I could push the lever down with my hand. 

What an idiot.... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2003

But then New Holland you can pin the MMM up when using your 3 point hitch. 

I have a JD 4210 with the 72" MMM - the MMM has it's own cylinder, so it raises and lowers independantly of the 3PH. That's one of the reasons I went with JD.

I also went for the JD because of the ease of removing the loader - I can take it off in about 2 minutes. The NH and Kubota seemed to require more effort.

I guess there are pluses and minuses for all of the different brands.

Andy

thcri · May 2, 2003

Andy,

Help me out here because this was discussed in great lenght in another thread but it was my understanding the John Deere 4x00 series you could not pin up the MMM at all and the 4x10 series you had to buy a kit to be able to pin up the MMM. Did you buy some kit or something that gave you an extra valve and control? If you actually have another valve and control I have never seen one before like that on a John Deere. I am not doubting you I just would like to know for my own reference.

murph

JackIL · May 2, 2003

I'm not Andy, but will answer anyway. For the 4100 there is a kit available to hold the mower all the way up. Same kit for the 4010, 4110, and 4115. No independent hydraulic lift for the mower on these tractors. For all other 4X00 and 4X10 tractors, there is a 3rd SCV kit available which can be used to control the MMM. Then the Dual SCV for the loader is free to operate the loader. The rockshaft of course has it's own independent valve and lever.

JackIL

thcri · May 2, 2003

JackIl,

So basically he did purchase an accessory for his tractor right? Do you know roughly how much that kit is?

murph

ps: i deleted my last post if you saw it, I asked some questions that you answered in your post that I did not see.

Anonymous Poster · May 2, 2003

Murph,

See this for my experience with the 3rd SCV issue /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The MMM will "lock" all the way up by turning the height adjustment knob all the way in. That's what I do when I want to use the loader, and have to disconnect the MMM cylinder hoses, since I don't have the 3rd SCV. 3rd SCV is only $200 if you order it with the tractor.

Andy

Anonymous Poster · May 3, 2003

I have a 4310 and have the same issues with the mid PTO both in design and enagaging it. I was wondering why on such a nice tractor is was setup this way. I figured it must have had something to do with cost. I hope down the road it gets raised up on the list a bit on the next series.

Craig

JJC · May 4, 2003

You can just leave the front pto switch pulled up all of the time. If you use something from the rear pto is the only time you would want to shut off the front switch. I think it is a great set up, It is easy to maintain, and lets face it who wants an extra lever and linkage to clutter the operaters area. and poss. lead to a potential problem.

thcri · May 4, 2003

Sooo like you run the mid PTO all the time? I guess to me the whole thing sounds not so much complicated for the owner but if you have a sequence that you have to follow what happens when you loan your tractor out to your neighbor who hasn't read the book and he does the wrong sequence. I think John Deere is better than that and I use to be jealous of my neighbors independent PTO's that he has on his older John Deere's compared to my New Holland Live PTO's. I will keep my live PTO's any day over the new John Deere series. I just push the clutch in and engage the PTO I want or both and that's it. Don't have to stop and remember which has to be engaged first or if at all depending on which PTO I want. My 13 year old daughter handles mine just fine.

just my feeling
murph

Anonymous Poster · May 5, 2003

I'm not sure what potential problem there is by having the extra linkage. The only problem I have had on my 755 is to forget to switch back to mid PTO after I have been doing some work with the rear PTO. The lever is out of the way but accessable and it is detented so it can not be inadvertantly moved in the event the PTO is engaged. John Deere has been making compact tractors with live, independant PTOs for years. I've enjoyed the flexibility on my 755. I was really surprised that JD got rid of something that you would normally expect from them. JD was the manufacturer that set themselves apart from the competition by offering well thought out designs with a focus on ease of operation. I can get over the lack of independant PTOs but I am having a hard time understanding how JD could have a design that can result in expensive damage due to inadvertant action. What if during mowing you hit a bump or or are on a side slope, you reach out to grab the right fender grip for support and hit the mid PTO knob my mistake? What damage will occur? JD has designed Loadmatch, Speedmatch, Motionmatch and an electronic cruise control into this series. I'm sure they could have designed either an electronic or mechanical interlock to prevent mid PTO activation/deactivation when the rear PTO is engaged.

Neophyte · Jul 26, 2003

I realize this is an old post but just in case someone from JD is listening, I wanted to make a comment regarding this design limitation. Even being a newcomer to compact tractors, I could tell it was a significant design flaw and it turned me off.

With the big three being fairly equal, it's the small features or limitations that can steer you one way or another. For me, if I was buying new, I might not buy a JD 4210/4310 for this very reason. It seems like a major design flaw to have the mid PTO dependent upon the rear PTO being engaged. Even their 4110/4115 have independent mid/rear PTO engagement. Why would they take a step backwards in this department with a more advanced machine? Other than this limitation and excessive electronics, I really like the 4210/4310 tractors. But what do I know? ... I'm just a neophyte when it comes to compact tractors!

Does anyone know if they have changed this yet or have any plans to change it?

yellowsocks93 · Jul 26, 2003

I don't know if they have plans to change this for the future but I hate to see the quality of JD going downhill so fast. They spent 160 years getting quality and their reputation to where it is today with a lot of hard work and they should try to keep thier standing as the best tractor maker in the world. I wish JD would make things like they used to with the 300 series garden tractors, 55 & 70 series compacts. These products really stood out, well built and designed. Sure they don't have the flat floor and e-match controls but they were built to last. I will always buy John Deere no matter how bad I complain about things being cheaply made but they need to stick out from the field once again.

Nick

990 4x4 turf, 272 RFM, 430 loader, 25A flail

GreenMtnMan · Jul 26, 2003

I don't know if this is what you're saying, but it seems to me it's a big leap to conclude JD quality is going downhill fast from their design decision to not separate the mid and rear PTOs. I don't like the fact that the air conditioning systems on most current vehicles don't have bi-level functions, but that doesn't mean the quality has tanked. Sometimes simplicity makes for more reliable products.

But, I may be wrong - it's happened before /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif