425 or 1430?

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( After giving this additional thought last night, I'm not ready to abandon the PT quite yet. I had a couple of additional thoughts. I could buy a 425 and if I'm really unhappy with the mowing, then I could still buy a ZTR for mowing and have no more invested than I'll have in the VT 4200 series as some have suggested I do. In order to go this route, I really need to be comfortable that the 425 is capable of doing a very good job bush hogging, particuarly tall thick wet grass on some inclines. Can anyone comment in this area.

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Have you seen the Mossroad's videos of his PT425 bush hogging? If not, click the PT icon in his signature and go to his site and check them out... IMO, the PT425 with rough-cut mower is VERY impressive, though I've not used mine very much yet....

You might be best satisfied with a ZTR for finish mowing (if it will handle your slopes) and a PT-425 for everything else. IMO, that would be the best of both worlds...

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue"> " In order to go this route, I really need to be comfortable that the 425 is capable of doing a very good job bush hogging, particuarly tall thick wet grass on some inclines. Can anyone comment in this area." </font>

Frankly, it's terrible. See attached pic, which was taken yesterday after mowing in just the conditions you described. The wheels jam, and the tires end up skidding. Directional control goes haywire, especially on a side slope. What should have been a three hour job took six and a half hours.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to best modify it so that it is usable in these conditions. Power Trac advertises it as a brush mower, which I think is an accurate statement. It does fine in light brush and just OK in long dry grass, but the finish mower is actually a better field mower, as long as you are not trying to cut woody plants or operate on rough ground.

Hopefully, I can come up with some sort of mod, otherwise I am going to have do a lot more mowing than I planned. It will mean not letting the grass ever get long, which will be an unwelcome and unexpected expense.

 

[KentT]

How did the wheels in front of the deck get so jammed? Is that from grass being cut and thrown forward, or is it from grass being caught up in the casters as they push through uncut areas?

Just curious... since I've not experienced it -- but I've mowed primarily weeds and briars with mine.

 

[SnowRidge]

It's some of both, as far as I can tell, but the majority of it seems to be the cut grass being thrown forward. The grass that is thrown forward goes toward the right front, and that wheel jams faster and harder than the left in every instance.

But the left will jam too. I just takes longer.

 

[KentT]

Does it do the same thing when the deck is adjusted lower to cut the grass shorter?

It would seem that the higher the deck setting, the more stuff that gets thown out from under it, without getting chopped up....

 

[SnowRidge]

Yes, it does, just not as quickly. The trouble with having the deck down low is bogging in the long, thick, wet grass. I tried several heights yesterday, none of which worked properly. Having the deck at its highest setting was by far the best for cutting. It was also the worst for jamming. It's a can't win situation. Of course, every change meant getting out the wrenches to "adjust" the rear wheels. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

The brush mower doesn't really chop the grass up like the finish mower does, since the two heavy blades have little or no lift. If it is set too low, it loads up fast, and the mower bogs, opening the relief valve.

 

[gooberjkf]

That's what I was afraid of. I had a feeling I wouldn't get real good reports about it bush hog ability. I'm sure it does fine in dry brush like that it mossroads video, but that isn't a very demanding task like tall wet grass is.

I'm afraid the same problems must exist with the 1430 as well, with the exception of the lack of power. For all that the VT isn't, I've heard that it is very good at bush hogging. So, I'm still leaning that direction.

Thanks again,
Joel

 

[MossRoad]

So why don't you mow on a dry day? Heck, my 50PTO HP IH and 5' brushhog didn't like that stuff that is in my videos after it rained either. And I have brush hogged that same field with the PT425 during a wet, rainy, snowy day. About as wet as you can get and it handled it better than I expected. I realize that weeds and brush are much easier to mow than grass. Grass mowing is the toughest job you can do with these things. It is a constant load on the entire system. However, when I run into tall grass with my mower or brush hog, I slow down. I always have it set on about the 2nd highest level. There is too much stuff under there to hit if I go any lower. I've found that I can mow the lawn well on one pass if I only take about 2-3 inches off at a time. Anything more, such as when I return from vacation, I have to either make two passes or half passes to get it all. Any finish mower on a 25HP tractor will have the same problem. Even ZTRs will complain at taking off 4 inches of thick lawn. I think it was Blackwell that suggested we all buy machines that are sized for the jobs that we have to do. I don't want it to sound like I'm overstating the capabilites of the PT425 in any way. I know what the machine can do on our property(I also know how to break it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). Look at the massive amount of work Paul has done with his. Look at the professionals that make a living with it. The machines are brutally simple, easy to repair from a mechanic's standpoint, and built like a tank. So much so, that we tend to over abuse them for their size.

If you need a great mower that can do a few other things, get a Ventrac. From everything I've read, they are fantastic mowers. If you want a great utility tractor that can do many things very well including a very acceptable job at mowing(keeping in mind it is a 25HP unit), get a PT. If you need to mow such heavy stuff when it is wet, get a larger unit. I'd also suggest test driving the Ventrac at your place in the conditions you expect to operate it in to see if it can handle the job you need to do. That's the only way to do a real world test for your needs.

Does anyone have any links to the Vantrac brush hogging? I'm always interested in this stuff and would like to compare it to a conventional CUT and the PT platforms.

 

[SnowRidge]

<font color="blue"> "Does anyone have any links to the Vantrac brush hogging? I'm always interested in this stuff and would like to compare it to a conventional CUT and the PT platforms." </font>

I looked earlier and found these:

Tough Cut Mower

Field Mower

 

[MossRoad]

Thanks. I wonder what it means by 3 blades with 4 cutting edges, each on the first link you sent? Do you think it is shaped like a +. I bet it would handle tough grasses, but it says it only handles brush up to 1/2 inch while the 48" Pt brush hog has taken down 1.5"-2" stuff for me. Looks like PT should come up with a third mower type.

1. finish mower
2. field mower
3. brush cutter

I wonder if a flail type mower would handle tall grasses better than a blade type? Anyone have experience with those? I don't.

 

[BillCroasmun]

Hey guys I am curious to hear how some of you define some of the words in this thread. I am hearing about "tall" grass being hard to mow when wet. I posted this picture recently which I consider tall grass.

I'll mow an acre like this the day after a hard rain with no problems with the 180 so I am assuming if others are having issues with the 425 their grass is taller, thicker, wetter or something?

Not trying to be argumentative here just trying to understand what others are dealing with that gives them problems. I also do not seem to have grass collecting up front like Snowridge. A little bit but nothing like his picture at all.

 

[pequeajim]

I've used the Ventrac bush cutter and it is a very capable unit. It would also bog down in the thick heavy grass that Snowridge shows in his picture, although I don't know if the grass would get caught in the wheels like he has shown. I don't think I have ever seen that before.

Remember, most of these companies sell BUSH cutters. Look at the picture of the VT cut. It is much like the dry weeds that MossRoad is cutting down with his deck in his videos.

While I'm not saying that the VT is not a good cutter, I would second MR's suggestion and get one out on your property and mow for your self.

I'll tell you a few things:

You'll love the VT on hills.
You'll love the VT cut.
You'll be frustrated with the VT FEL capability.
You'll like the VT maneuverability.

You'll like the PT on Hills.
You'll only like the PT cut.
You'll love the PT FEL capability
You'll love the 425 maneuverability.

Jim!

 

[pequeajim]

Man, that is TALL and THICK stuff! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[blackwell]

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifWe use a 425 and 60" mower on about 3.5 acres, only takes 45 minutes to mow heavy grass with rear discharge and have become the envy of the neighborhood on the quality of the cut. Also use the brush cutter to mow grass and weeds on about 10 acres. Some of the lawn and rough is around 20 deg. with no problems with power.
We use the 1430 at another location to mow 8 acres lawn, max slope 25 deg, with great results. I converted a 74" flex deck with side discharge of another brand to the 1430 and used part of a season. The cut was no better than the PT mower, but I threw small rocks thru 3 windows with the side discharge in about 3 months of use, and the guards were in place. One of the rocks threw glass across the kitchen in front of my wife causing her to cut her foot. I went back to the PT rear discharge and sold the flex deck. We also use the brush cutter on the 1430 to cut tall grass and weeds along with small trees. The 1430 is also used for many other chores around the place, this is my favorite machine.
We also use a 180 with finish mower at another location to mow about an acre, nice cut, plenty of power for a small location. We also use several other attachments for the 180.
It seams my experences with all the PT's mowing have been much different than what you describe. I would never own a side discharge mower again, I dont get grass all over me when I mow, or grass tangled in the wheels, I like the simplicity of the PT mower. The articulated machines with front mowers have cut our weed eating in half and all our maintiance staff loves that. PT's are easy to maintain and require very little training to repair.
I would agree if you only want to mow, buy a mower, but if you have many other jobs to do, PT's are handy and a good mower also.
I'm sure the VT is a good machine, but not as versatile as the PT.
Good luck
EB

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Yep, that's tall. Unfortunately, I sometimes work in "taller" with the 1845. It's been so hot this summer that the PT operator has failed to come to work for almost three weeks. (Cussed myself in the mirror just this morning.) Just did a field with 12-18" tall thick grass, still wet from rain yesterday. It slowed me down. I think my front wheels are fairly standard PT and I've never wrapped one. I've not yet owned a mower that doesn't bog a bit in heavy wet stuff, including 6' bush hog on 50 hp tractor.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red">Looks like PT should come up with a third mower type. </font>
They did, at least when Sedgewood and I bought our 1845s. It's a 72" rough-cut mower, with 3 spindles, stump jumper and two hinged blades on each like a brush hog. I don't know if they've made it in sizes smaller than the 72 and 96.
It is a good field mower, with brush hog capability, and if you get Sedgewood's custom high-lift thin blades and run the deck low and canted slightly forward, it will do a lawn-quality cut.
Stock, it has a rubber rear skirt. I've never gotten directly hit by clippings, but in dry weather it does put out chaff, as any mower will.

 

[marrt]

Dude, I just got a whole lot of new respect for the 180. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[marrt]

Joel, you seem to be fairly concerned about the quality of the grass cut. I would suggest a ZTR for the best possible cut (personally, I really like the Ferris ZTR’s with 4 wheel suspension). I hear the VT gives a great cut but have no personal experience.

That said, a properly set up 425 (with the front of the deck higher than the rear) is an excellent mower in my opinion. I have a neighbor with a Kubota BX2200 (suspended deck) and another with a B2710 and the 425 cut is far better in my opinion. Much less windrowing. However, on hilly property, with tall grass, and a desire to go fast using the “old style wheel motors”, the 425 could feel a little under powered. I believe this is due to the rather low torque of the gas engine at full RPM, the low torque of the old style wheel motors, and the small motor PT puts on the mower. Nevertheless, it’s still a great mower when patient and when set up correctly.

 

[gooberjkf]

Marrt, you're correct, I am concerned about the mower of the PT. I was concerned after reading a number of the posts on this forum and others about the quality of cut and the various tire problems. That's one of the reasons I decided to drive to Tazewell. Unfortunately, the grass in their field was in horrible shape, so it difficult to really see how it mows in an area that is mowed reguarly. Their field had been allowed to grow to a height of 8-10 inches and had been cut wet a day or two before I arrived on the lowest deck setting, so you can imagine what the field looked like. Scott at PT indicated it was gonna be almost impossible to see how it would cut under those conditions. However, that was the only area available for me to demo the unit. From what I'm reading, perhaps if I had an opportunity to see this in action, or better yet use it, on an area that is mowed reguarly, than I might find that the cut isn't so bad after all.

Is there anyone out there within a reasonable distance that I could visit?

Thanks again,
Joel

 

[cqaigy]

<font color="blue"> I posted this picture recently which I consider tall grass. </font>

<font color="red"> I don't mow my grass very often so it gets kinda high, like around 4.5 to 5 feet tall and it's very thick and tough. It's usually wet when it gets that long. With my 422 i can't go full speed because of the terrain but i don't think it would be able to cut at full speed. </font>