3pt hitch and log mover

[HenryIV]

Very helpful looking at other folks ideas. I thought about what I needed which was a pintle hitch, ball hitch, and a way to quickly hook up chains for logs. To establish the optimum ball height, I took measurements of my hitch heights of my two trailers and the height of the lift arms and top link pivot points on the tractor vs. the ground. Take your time and make it so the links remain somewhat parallel to each other. As for materials, I got the hitch at NT for $60. I bough some c-channel scrap from the steel retailer for about 50 cents a lb. Cut the steel with a 4-1/2 grinder and cut off wheels. Squared off my corners on a bench grinder. Drilled the holes in the steel to mount the hitch, lift arm pins, and top link holes using a drill press. My Mrs. added cutting fluid as I drilled at the lowest speed my press can go which was about 25% faster than I wanted. Just a little patience, moderate pressure and a generous amount of fluid cut the holes without any pucker moments. Once all the pieces were ready to weld I did a root pass with 6013 rod and went back over with 7018. The pieces on the sides are set inboard by about a quarter of an inch so I could "cheat" and weld into an angle. I welded hooks on the corners. These hooks made to catch the links on the chain I use, which is a big time saver. It is easy for me to wrap a chain around the end of a log and then into one or both hooks, and lift the log up just a few inches to drag it. So far so good with all welds holding as I drag 12 ft 16 inch dia. oaks from the forest. Trailer hookup is fast, but I am getting spoiled by having a hydraulic height controlled hitch vs. a truck hitch. Thanks to all of you for the inspiration.

 

[CCWKen]

Nice job! And timely post too. I just started a 3-pt Receiver Hitch. I salvaged a hitch off a 73 Cadillac years ago and finally found a use for it. I like the 2" receiver style since I can change to various hitch types by just pulling a pin. And I will be able to use it as a drawbar by inserting a hitch without a ball mounted. I made a 2" insert for my pintle hitch for an old military trailer I plan to use as a water wagon and later a sprayer.

 

[Norm W]

My first thought was, "that hitch is above the rear axle". That type of utility tractor is real easy to flip over if the pull is not below the axle. I've seen them rear up even with the pull on the factory draw bar. The workmanship looks great, and I know it can be raised and lowered, I just don't want to have anyone be a statistic.

 

[HenryIV]

Goes from +10 to -9 inches from the axle axis CL. The only way I'm looping is catching a log on a stump. Go slow. Cover clutch.

 

[SPYDERLK]

My first thought was, "that hitch is above the rear axle". That type of utility tractor is real easy to flip over if the pull is not below the axle. I've seen them rear up even with the pull on the factory draw bar. The workmanship looks great, and I know it can be raised and lowered, I just don't want to have anyone be a statistic.

He can lift with his setup but pull from the fixed drawbar by creative use of chaining. Theres no way OP should pull from the lower arms unless they are restrained downward ... and lower as you say.

 

[SJay]

Sorry, a little lost - why should he not pull from the lower arms???

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sorry, a little lost - why should he not pull from the lower arms???

Its because the arms can rise/pivot freely upward if the tractor tries to tip backward. Looking at where they pivot on the tractor youll see that its quiite close to the axle. So in a tip they can develop negligible resistance to the tip. Here is a post from a thread where we hashed it out:

So you dont see that your setup is more sound and safer than Chillys. Well darn!, were not getting anywhere. ... He is pulling from the 3ph. You are pulling from the tractor drawbar. - - As a tractor back tips the 3ph is free to pivot upward around its pivot points on the tractor. This does nothing to moderate backtip. In contrast, the tractor fixed drawbar moves down as a backtip proceeds. A load pulled from this point loses leverage on the tractor as the backtip proceeds. There comes a point where the tractor can tip no further.
Yes, Chillys goes a step to make his setup safer with the low hang snag guard. That is about as far as you can go pulling from the 3ph and it hasnt addressed the fundamental problem since the guard itself is on the 3point -- a snag of the guard can cause an unmoderated tip. With your setup a guard is not necessary and could turn into a nuisance if not well designed, ... or a danger if placed on the 3point.
larry

,,, If you wish, you can jump to the post in that thread by clicking on the blue box in the quote line.

 

[HenryIV]

Its because the arms can rise/pivot freely upward if the tractor tries to tip backward. Looking at where they pivot on the tractor youll see that its quiite close to the axle. So in a tip they can develop negligible resistance to the tip. Here is a post from a thread where we hashed it out:



,,, If you wish, you can jump to the post in that thread by clicking on the blue box in the quote line.

Or not.

You hashed out manure.
The greater the moment, the higher the torque. Moment (distance to axle axis) x Force (tongue weight) = Torque.
You need torque to lift the front, we are rotating around an axle - remember?.

To anyone interested in making a three point hitch, please consider.

1) None of these experts asked what I pull on that hitch, a M1102 almost exclusively. That hitch is 29" off the deck. the lower bar is -10" vert. from that point. and behind the radius of the rear tire. Yes, I want that much ground clearance. How low will it go? Not low enough to flip a tractor with any load I can put in a M1102. Heavier trailers have a lower hitch height. Then drawbar is a dragbar before you'd flip and only a jackass would load that much tongue weight on those lift arms. If the moment forward of the rear axle is 8 feet and about 2000# force vs. 3 feet of moment behind the axle, it would take a static tongue weight of maybe 5300 lbs. to get the nose up. I think I can handle 500 lbs. dynamic huh? The trailer CG is ten inches forward of the axle with a 3000# max payload. If I strike gold and have to get it out in one load and infront of the trailer axle, I can just lower the tongue on my way to the super yacht dealership. Problem Solved. Some of these armchair engineers have watched too many Punjabi tractor pull showdowns on YouTube, and those crazy Sihks are connected with moments shorter than the tire radius.

2) There is a lot more metal around the lift arms pivot than the threads of the bolts holding on the bracket for the swinging drawbar. Think about it. I've designed machines to assemble the axles for this. I know a little bit about torque and force. I know a little about bolted joints too. The most robust part of the casting is exactly where the lift arms emerge from the rear axle. That's where tractors earn their keep, at least that's how they used to do it. Now its light and cheap and well... don't get me started. The only question mark I had was how good my weld penetration is, for I am a novice welder. So far so good.

3) This rig goes into a forest. The rear tires of the tractor don't easily make contact with the trailer in tight turns, because the pivot point is farther back. This is a huge advantage for me and no oversight.

4) Safety? Know this. Only a fool would operate a tractor perpendicular to a grade with a heavy load or attachment on the back, you're just asking to pulled backwards and sideways while the front tires unload a little. on hard wet, frozen, or loose surfaces the risk is greater. Use some common sense and if it "feels" unsafe, don't do it, or buy a Challenger.

5) I make my stuff for me, not for them. Make your stuff for you. If you still don't know what to do, ask an old Iowa farmer.

 

[Ed of all trades]

Spyderlk I believe you have overstated the problem. There can be problems pulling from the 3ph but to say never is IMHO overkill. Teens should never drive because they could wreck. Every plow pulls from the 3ph and every farmer has something like HenryIV's little invention. Henry enjoy your hitch, know it limits, but enjoy. Ed

 

[LD1]

Nice work on the hitch.

My concern before seeing the pics (but while reading your description) was with the use of channel. But how you have it built now I believe it will be fine. With the chain hooks near the pins, and the pintle/ball part way up the vertical, limits my concerns. A typical hitch that is attached to the lower horizontal piece and pulled from right in the middle with a insert drawbar sticking back a bit.....I could see a piece of channel either twisting or bending in the weak direction. But How you have it currently I dont for see any issues. I think the current weak link is where your pins are attached. Not alot a meat around those threads just going through the channel.

I have built 4 or 5 of these type hitches. You did right by taking the time to figure the height between the lower and toplink mounts so it lifts level. For a trailer mover you dont want the ball traveling in an arc, rather keeping it horizontal is pretty important. And can vary from tractor to tractor. Easiest way to make one of those is to start with a truck hitch, chop the frame mounts off and put your pins on, then attach the vertical. Takes a few hours tops. But I have made a few from scratch, and all are beefier than the $150 pieces you can buy about everywhere.

I am not going to be the safety police, as I skid logs all the time from my 3PH by elevating the butt end of the log. (I do have a FEL for lots of front weight though). Just use caution as flipping is a REAL possibility with this type of arrangement.

Final thought or concern is your hooks. Looks good for pulling, but be careful chaining short and lifting. Not the strong direction of that hook. Looks like they could bend over (downward) with too much lifting and not enough pulling.

 

[SPYDERLK]

He can lift with his setup but pull from the fixed drawbar by creative use of chaining. Theres no way OP should pull from the lower arms unless they are restrained downward ... and lower as you say.

Spyderlk I believe you have overstated the problem. There can be problems pulling from the 3ph but to say never is IMHO overkill. Teens should never drive because they could wreck. Every plow pulls from the 3ph and every farmer has something like HenryIV's little invention. Henry enjoy your hitch, know it limits, but enjoy. Ed

I didnt say never, ... but its hard to determine if a person knows when.

,,, I instead gave an example of the way to make it OK/backtip stable.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Or not.

You hashed out manure.
The greater the moment, the higher the torque. Moment (distance to axle axis) x Force (tongue weight) = Torque.
You need torque to lift the front, we are rotating around an axle - remember?.

To anyone interested in making a three point hitch, please consider.

1) None of these experts asked what I pull on that hitch, a M1102 almost exclusively. That hitch is 29" off the deck. the lower bar is -10" vert. from that point. and behind the radius of the rear tire. Yes, I want that much ground clearance. How low will it go? Not low enough to flip a tractor with any load I can put in a M1102. Heavier trailers have a lower hitch height. Then drawbar is a dragbar before you'd flip and only a jackass would load that much tongue weight on those lift arms. If the moment forward of the rear axle is 8 feet and about 2000# force vs. 3 feet of moment behind the axle, it would take a static tongue weight of maybe 5300 lbs. to get the nose up. I think I can handle 500 lbs. dynamic huh? The trailer CG is ten inches forward of the axle with a 3000# max payload. If I strike gold and have to get it out in one load and infront of the trailer axle, I can just lower the tongue on my way to the super yacht dealership. Problem Solved. Some of these armchair engineers have watched too many Punjabi tractor pull showdowns on YouTube, and those crazy Sihks are connected with moments shorter than the tire radius.

2) There is a lot more metal around the lift arms pivot than the threads of the bolts holding on the bracket for the swinging drawbar. Think about it. I've designed machines to assemble the axles for this. I know a little bit about torque and force. I know a little about bolted joints too. The most robust part of the casting is exactly where the lift arms emerge from the rear axle. That's where tractors earn their keep, at least that's how they used to do it. Now its light and cheap and well... don't get me started. The only question mark I had was how good my weld penetration is, for I am a novice welder. So far so good.

3) This rig goes into a forest. The rear tires of the tractor don't easily make contact with the trailer in tight turns, because the pivot point is farther back. This is a huge advantage for me and no oversight.

4) Safety? Know this. Only a fool would operate a tractor perpendicular to a grade with a heavy load or attachment on the back, you're just asking to pulled backwards and sideways while the front tires unload a little. on hard wet, frozen, or loose surfaces the risk is greater. Use some common sense and if it "feels" unsafe, don't do it, or buy a Challenger.

5) I make my stuff for me, not for them. Make your stuff for you. If you still don't know what to do, ask an old Iowa farmer.

Despite multiple reads of your post I havnt been able to find any evidence that youre addressing the problem of tractor backtip caused by the pull force the tractor exerts.

 

[90cummins]

I built a hitch like HenryIV years ago and welded a hook just below the top link for a chain.
I usually hook my logs at the top link to improve traction due to the down force of the load.
True you need to be careful because the tractor can come up due to the high hitch point but dropping the hitch will bring the front back down.
The high hitch point provides traction that allows me to move very large trees and also keeps the butt from digging in.
I have hauled trees so large the only way I could move them was to raise the hitch fully which jerked the log forward several inches then I lowered the hitch which allowed the tractor to gain some ground, I repeated this until I got to easy going.

90cummins

 

[HenryIV]

I only bring my logs up high enough to clear stumps. Catching a stump with a chained up oak could be pucker moment for me but I put it in 2L and take my time. That is really the most stress I apply to my tractor. I have not pulled on so big that required your solution, but I have a candidate. I'm really surprised my amateur welding held, especially the hooks, they got the least welding as there was the least surface to weld. Welding Tips and Tricks dot com and ChuckE2000 on YouTube helped me figure out the welding technique.

One of the other ideas I considered looked something like a sled with spikes sticking up out of it. This was the method used when logging was done with horses. I decided to be a little more modern after using chains and binders to bring the tractor home and later two M1102s (one loaded upside down and backwards on the other) home. It hit me that I could combine the hitch and log drag requirements with a single attachment. Those hooks fit the chain links and they also fit the trailer chain hooks on the M1102. I saw some designs where the hooks were set like you have them, up high near the top link, so that seems popular too. For the cost of the hooks, you could have both for not so much extra money.

As for the vertical elements , the reason two c-channels were used was to retain the ability of using the attachment with a quick hitch that some fellas are going to. If I had a single vertical element , I would have has to put a pretty big vertical notch in it so the adapter could come up underneath it to catch the pin used at the top link. That would have removed a lot of metal and would have made fabrication more complicated. By using two c-channels I just had to drill two holes and mind the gap There would be no point having a quick hitch if I have to remove it to use my 3pt trailer adapter.

Very fast work hooking up the logs that way, or just lifting them before setting on another log for saw work. I've even considered welding a hitch receiver stub pointing downward in front of the vertical elements to hold a removable subsoiler. First I need to finish the repair of an old bushhog needing a tail wheel attachment, then a box blade but that is what winter is for.

 

[farm boy00]

I only bring my logs up high enough to clear stumps. Catching a stump with a chained up oak could be pucker moment for me but I put it in 2L and take my time. That is really the most stress I apply to my tractor. I have not pulled on so big that required your solution, but I have a candidate. I'm really surprised my amateur welding held, especially the hooks, they got the least welding as there was the least surface to weld. Welding Tips and Tricks dot com and ChuckE2000 on YouTube helped me figure out the welding technique.

One of the other ideas I considered looked something like a sled with spikes sticking up out of it. This was the method used when logging was done with horses. I decided to be a little more modern after using chains and binders to bring the tractor home and later two M1102s (one loaded upside down and backwards on the other) home. It hit me that I could combine the hitch and log drag requirements with a single attachment. Those hooks fit the chain links and they also fit the trailer chain hooks on the M1102. I saw some designs where the hooks were set like you have them, up high near the top link, so that seems popular too. For the cost of the hooks, you could have both for not so much extra money.

As for the vertical elements , the reason two c-channels were used was to retain the ability of using the attachment with a quick hitch that some fellas are going to. If I had a single vertical element , I would have has to put a pretty big vertical notch in it so the adapter could come up underneath it to catch the pin used at the top link. That would have removed a lot of metal and would have made fabrication more complicated. By using two c-channels I just had to drill two holes and mind the gap There would be no point having a quick hitch if I have to remove it to use my 3pt trailer adapter.

Very fast work hooking up the logs that way, or just lifting them before setting on another log for saw work. I've even considered welding a hitch receiver stub pointing downward in front of the vertical elements to hold a removable subsoiler. First I need to finish the repair of an old bushhog needing a tail wheel attachment, then a box blade but that is what winter is for.

Do mean by chance ChuckE2009?? I follow him. He's got alot of great projects.

I could be wrong I didnt go to YouTube and search ChuckE2000

 

[stuckmotor]

Teens should never drive because they could wreck. Ed

Sometimes when safety of teens driving tractors comes up, I think about a story in one of my jr. high literature books. It was about a kid around 12 or 13 driving a cultivator tractor. I remember thinking how much nicer it would be to be driving the tractor than sitting in school. Views on safety have changed since those days.

 

[stuckmotor]

The hitch is purdy and that looks like a mighty good old dog, too.

 

[arrow]

I've skidded logs out of the woods for 35 years. I use nothing but the 3 pt. I've also seen a guy killed when his tractor flipped and broke his neck. Details make all the difference and blanket statements may be ok but their application may be meaningless or spot on depending on the myriad of things differentiated from one person's situation to the next. Why have I never come even close to flipping my tractors pulling stems from the 3 pt w/o front loading the bucket? Why did the guy get killed that day when using his 3 pt just as I have? Accidents usually happen with a lapse of clear thinking.

Now please do not say I'm an accident waiting to happen or else you could say the same thing that because I've driven cars for over 50 years, I'm an accident waiting to happen. If I happen to get dead skidding like this, I'll check in an tell you how I did it.

Personally, I enjoy seeing how others may do stuff and I applaud the resourcefulness evident in engineering as Henry4 shows.. That's all it is for me.

 

[HenryIV]

Yes, you are right. ChuckE2009 - YeeHaW!

 

[HenryIV]

Yes I thought about those hooks, especially because I couldn稚 get a good bead on the inside of the eye. However on the outside I got in with 7018 pretty good.

So I took the tractor into the woods and tried to break the hooks off by putting one hooks at a time under a tilted pine stump and tried to lift it. and the tires started to compress under the load and I decided to spare the hydraulics and stop. Oh ..yeah, Im still not dead, and don't tell child protective services but I decided to put the wife and son and dog in the back of the trailer connected to the Pintle Hitch of Certain Death for an Autumn ride.

I suggested to my wife that she "move rear of the trailer axle as to not overload the tongue weight capacity of the tractor."

Then it happened....




When I was again able to stand upright again, I realized that my 5'10" Swede wife born on the plains of Nebraska and raised on a cattle ranch was not interested in my mansplaining about weights and measures. Obviously she had some experience with her two older brother's body bag in the barn too. Sleeping on the couch only has made it harder for my ribs to heal, and the coffee she gives me makes my gums bleed and I sometimes go blind for a little while. I'm sure it will blow over.

But seriously, since then I learned to weld into corners with 7018 using AC not DCEN. Seems the magnetic forces in the inside corners make it hard to lay in a good bead. Switching to AC on recent projects for inside corners gives me a better bead. I have a short winter down south so a repaint and a ROPS to attach a radio, beverage gimble , fire extinguisher and light bar is required

Going for something like this, that guy is in a ZZ Top cover band in Mumbai.