3-pt vs sub-frame mounted backhoe

[civilrider]

Hi to all! I am planning on putting a backhoe on a Kubota B2710 and am needing input on 3ph vs frame mounted hoes. Some dealers tell me that they hate hitch mounted others say they are no problem. The concern seems to be frame stress. I am also interested in ease of attaching/detaching, compatibility with a mmm, etc. My use will be on a small farm (10 acres) doing general digging with some stump removal. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John

 

[AndyMA]

On a machine of that size you definately want to go with a subframe. I've seen too many small tractors with their cases cracked by using a 3pt hitch backhoe. The twist on the case is very strong. I've had a JD650, ford 1710 and Ford 2120 and they all had subframes. My New Holland TN75D has a 3pt setup with the Woods 1050 backhoe, but it is a much stronger tractor and it has a Cat II 3 pt hitch.

Andy

 

[Dave___in___CT]

Hi...


A frame mount is much better than a 3-point-hitch mount for a backhoe. Rigid... no stress on the 3-point linkage...

Putting backpressure against the 3-point linkage with the backhoe can twist it all up... it may happen without you realizing it... but... a 3-point hoe does work OK... just not the best choice...


Dave...

 

[GregJ]

John,
I have a B7500 w/4672 BH and have been very pleased with it. I don't mow, but I know that with the 3pt there are no restrictions for MMM. As far as installation and removal, it takes me less than 5 minutes to remove and about 10 minutes to reinstall. However, that is after owning it for a year and a lot of practice. Now I don't even hesitate to remove it. As far as durability, I have removed some huge stumps with it and really pushed it very hard. I haven't had a problem with it so far. I do like the fact that it runs on it's own hydraulics. It makes the hookup very simple and there is no chance of cross contamination. Also, I know that the hydraulics on the BH were specifically designed for it. So... as you can see I am happy with my 3pt. model and I am sure that you are going to get lots of feedback from frame mount owners that like theirs better than 3pt's, so it really will come down to your own personal preference. Have fun shopping. BTW, I believe that over a 3rd of my seat time involves my BH. Once you get one, you'll find more uses for it than you ever dreamt of.

Greg

 

[cowboydoc]

I wouldn't go with anything but a subframe. You can find plenty of cases of guys with three point models that have had problems. It's rare to find a subframe problem.

 

[Henro]

Hi,

I have a b2910 with a Kubota 3ph backhoe.

I find it hard to believe that a backhoe designed by the manufacturer of the tractor would be hazardous to the tractor's physical well being. But it MUST be installed as designed to be installed. There are special brackets that are installed when a backhoe 3ph is added, at least to the Kubota B27/2910. Fail to use them and all bets are off!

Chances are if those brackets are not installed, or a third party backhoe is installed and not properly designed for the tractor, the tractor might just crack somewhere.

Personallly, I would prefer a subframe backhoe. It just SEEMS better! Wasn't an option from Kubota for my B2910 however...and I wanted to keep everything from one source since I was buying new.

A subframe may interfere with a MMM. I want to say "probably will" but that would just be a guess.

If it is not a Kubota backhoe, you would probably be safer going with the subframe type if that is possible with the MMM. That is what I would do... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Once you know the sequence, putting on/off a 3ph backhoe is not a big deal at all. Subframe backhoes may be a little easier...never tried one but got that impression from reading posts here.

Saw a L3430 with a BH90 backhoe on it the other day...VERY nice package...time to consider an upgrade, perhaps? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well...we can dream a little now and then, right? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[civilrider]

Thanks much for the info. I believe Henro is right in saying that a munufacturer probably wouldn't make a hoe that would cause damage to a matched tractor. However it also makes sense from reading the replies that a subframe reduces the chance of a problem down the road. Right now i'm leaning towards the subframe with a self-contained pump but I believe I need to answer the question regarding compatibility with a MMM and which is easier to mount.
Further thoughts from the group out there might help.
Thanks again...this forum has been most helpful and informative...most appreciated!!!
John

 

[cbh]

I have the same tractor/backhoe as GregJ. It uses the same type of reinforced top link bracket that Henro mentioned. The backhoe attaches to this bracket with two heavy duty pins. As a further safeguard against the type of failure stvman points out, the backhoe has a motion limiting bracket underneath. If the hitch fails, the backhoe can only move upward about two inches.

Despite these safety features, I agree that a subframe mount is better. But using a subframe mount on the B7500 reduces the ground clearance from 12" to about 8" all of the time. This negates an important benefit of a compact tractor vs. a subcompact. With a 3 pt. mount, when I need the high ground clearance, I can just remove the backhoe.

Ideally, a compact tractor manufacturer would design their own brand of subframe backhoe which doesn't reduce clearance even when removed, like the subcompact BX22. Maybe someday. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Boondox]

Is the loss of ground clearance also an issue for the 27/2910, though? I have a subframe Woods 7500 on my L3010, and with the hoe removed I lose all of...maybe half an inch...of clearance.

With the receivers unique to each tractor, ground clearance might not be an issue here.

Pete

 

[ronjhall]

Before I purchased my B4690 3PH backhoe I checked out the Woods 7500. The only concern I had was MMM interference. I thought the sub frame made a good skid plate for underside of the tractor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[tractorman]

Listen to these guys, the subframe mounted backhoe is a much better solution for you. We were selling the Woods 7500's with their 52999 subframe kit, it made for an excellent match. Woods has since come out with a new subframe kit to replace the 52999 which I do not like. it sticks out very far behind the tractor, takes alot of weight off the front end & reduces ground clearance. We have switched to the Bradco 3375 hoe with their subframe mounting kit. Awesome ground clearance and easy to get on and off. Good Luck with your decision

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Well, I got neither. On my Deere, it is frame mounted. You remove the three point. but the frame structure doesn't affect ground clearance, or mmm operation. It really does go on and off in a flash. I doubt anyone would change color to get it, but for someone deciding, it'd be worth a look.

 

[cowboydoc]

I agree with you Mike. I really like the 48 backhoe for my 4600 too.

 

[chrisjbell]

Well, after reading the thread I'd agree with the general consensus - for that size of a tractor you want a subframe.

I have a Woods hoe (with subframe) on a B7300 (smaller tractor than yours, but same theory). The hoe generates a heck of a lot of downforce and can easily lift the rear of the tractor off the ground. Done smoothly, it isn't too bad, but every now and then something gives (usually the operator fails to be smoooth /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif). The tractor, when it drops fast, sure does get rough in the seat /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif!

Without the subframe, my tractor would look like a pretzel /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

It doesn't affect ground clearance much. I sank my tractor to the frame in a bog (BH off) and the bracket for the subframe was clear, even though the tractor was sitting on the axles and frame /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

I do beleive that the bracket would interfere with an MMM, but I don't have one so could be wrong.

 

[John_Mc]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...doing general digging with some stump removal.)</font>

FWIW... stump removal is one of the tougher jobs you'll do with a backhoe (unless you're just working on really small stumps). I'd recommend the subframe.

Woods has a new subframe style out for their Backhoes. They call it their "4 point hitch". Makes putting it on and off a real breeze, and you do not lose the ground clearance that you do with some subframes. It's available now for some Kubota model tractors (not yet for NH class II CUTs /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

John Mc

 

[PineRidge]

John,
When I was getting estimates for a new TC40D the New Holland dealers wouldn't talk to me about a 3-point backhoe period. I am convinced that it went deeper than just price considerations. They were concerned about my bringing the tractor back for service with a twisted or broken case. Even though they offered frame mounted backhoes cheaper than the NH such as the Bradco line I decided to bite the bullet and go with the New Holland backhoe for peace of mind. Now the dealer has the FEL, BH, pallet forks, canopy, wheel weights, and rear weights but we are patiently awaiting the tractor itself. Man I'm not getting much sleep nights, know what I mean? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[pekabu]

Unfortunatly I do. My dealer had the machine, but couldn't find the BH anywhere. Waited about a month and a half. Came through though. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif