25 HP vs 35 HP

[searcyfarms]

with another tractor pushing on the other end LOL - or with tipping it up and putting logs underneath to roll it on.

my neighbor used his 706 farmall at 75ish HP and his was 20foot vs 40 and it handled it but a 40 footer would have been a different story

id just make friends with a big tractor and invite him over when you need to move it and offer him some sort of bartering :drink:

 

[Geotech]

I was able to tug around a 20 footer with open side doors with my Toyota Tundra after putting some wood skids under it. Never even broke traction. The 20 ft open side containers weigh almost as much as a 40 footer. I guess the tractor will just have to clear room for the pickup cause I certainly am not upgrading to a 75+ hp tractor to do what I can do with no tractor at all. Just dont like risking scratches on my pretty truck. Surprising that a 75 horse tractor can barely do what a half ton pickup can do without even a tiny bit of struggle. Maybe you were picking the entire box up? Not using skids or rollers?

 

[AndyMA]

I was able to tug around a 20 footer with open side doors with my Toyota Tundra after putting some wood skids under it. Never even broke traction. The 20 ft open side containers weigh almost as much as a 40 footer. I guess the tractor will just have to clear room for the pickup cause I certainly am not upgrading to a 75+ hp tractor to do what I can do with no tractor at all. Just dont like risking scratches on my pretty truck. Surprising that a 75 horse tractor can barely do what a half ton pickup can do without even a tiny bit of struggle. Maybe you were picking the entire box up? Not using skids or rollers?

No I can pull them around ok. I could also pick up one end

Andy

 

[Gale Hawkins]

How about some videos of these container moving feats?
Sounds interesting to watch.

 

[4570Man]

I moved an old semi trailer without a semi. I picked up the front end with my skid steer and set it on my rollback and then picked up the back and we drove it about a hundred yards. The CTL couldn’t push it with one end on the ground and the back axel was buried when we started so pulling it wasn’t an option. That trailer was heavy. I’d guess at least 2 tons at each end.

 

[Geotech]

Sounds like neither 25 or 35 hp tractor is ideal for moving shipping containers. Neither is a pickup, for that matter. That's okay. Not a deal killer. I can handle moving a shipping container around a few times with less than ideal equipment. There are lots of vids on YouTube showing people moving containers around.

 

[prof fate]

To be 100% honest we can only go on what WE PERSONALLY know and have experienced.
SO..is kioti good? I've owned one for 57 hours..been perfect.
Had an older Kubota for about 100 hours..again, perfect.

I've had 2 subarus - a '14 that has been very very good and an 07 that had all sorts of issues by 66k miles that most cars never have.

Are subarus good cars? Should you buy one? Is there any fact out there to say one way or another? Maybe 'would YOU buy another one?' - i'd certainly consider it.

But if YOU don't have any experience with using/owning/buying/ something (brand, tractor, wine, mattresses) it's typical to ask around. And the internet lets that question go to a very broad audience - is that good or bad?

Do you trust your mom? Brother? boss? BFF? Sure, so you ask them for advice on things. Would you stand on a street corner and ask complete strangers for advice? No. Yet that's essentially what the internet allows us to do.

tehy say there is a collective intelligence to crowds and the web...so maybe it does work?

OK, thanks for staying with the fact vs opinion subject. I'll drop it now; the point seems to have beeen made.
Using the definitions from the original post those statements in the quote above look to fit the definition of hear-say opinion rather than facts.

As in: " ...hear-say (my buddy, dad, I read, heard, saw in a tv show, guy on the next barstool said...)

rScotty

 

[Handloader109]

I'll throw in, go with the 35hp. I've got the 25 hp cabelas/tym built and definitely while using pto I would want more hp if I were cutting down scrub. I've only a belly mower and it bogs down if I let grass get to hay size. I'd like a bit more umph if I could get it. My neighbor has had a kioti 35hp for 5 yrs or so, and it's been good tractor. But she does baby it. An alternative is to get a 25hp and find a 50 to 75 hp old running tractor and use it for grunt work......

 

[prof fate]

mowing grass, yard grass anyway, takes HP. Or it's nice to have.

My zero turn is 26hp..weight 550 lbs and cuts 42" like a beast. I wouldn't expect a 3000lb tractor with less HP overall to do better, would you?

My Kubota 17hp/15hp pto had a 59" woods deck finish mower and as long as yuo only too 2" max off the grass, preferably less, it was fine. Push it to cut more and it would get hot. My zero turn routinely cuts tall grass and even hay size grass once or twice a year. So did my snapper before that (42" cut 18 hp). I had a 19hp sears 48" cut that would do it, but would complain. I have a 14hp zero turn and forget high grass...just won't do it at all (38" cut).

25 to 35hp is what, a 30-35% jump in power? With no penalty in size/weight...yeah, sounds good.

I'll throw in, go with the 35hp. I've got the 25 hp cabelas/tym built and definitely while using pto I would want more hp if I were cutting down scrub. I've only a belly mower and it bogs down if I let grass get to hay size. I'd like a bit more umph if I could get it. My neighbor has had a kioti 35hp for 5 yrs or so, and it's been good tractor. But she does baby it. An alternative is to get a 25hp and find a 50 to 75 hp old running tractor and use it for grunt work......

 

[rScotty]

Regarding RPM operating range, I've just always preferred running engines at lower RPM's. It's just psychological as it seems like running higher RPM's is harder on the engine (more friction with more movements within a given period of time), but I understand that is not necessarily the case. It's also just less stressful to hear the engine lugging around that screaming. but, I will operate at whatever the recommended range is, and get used to it. This was something I had a hard time with riding 2 stroke dirt bikes. They really like to be wrung out. I always felt like I was about to melt the engine. Probably both are true!

Geotech, did you decide on a tractor yet? It sounded like you were getting close.

I've been thinking on some of the things that you mentioned as concerns and comparing them with my own experience.

On dealers, I'd feel more comfortable with a dealer who had a good parts inventory and an active, well-equipped service department. How far away he was wouldn't matter if he was within an hour or so driving time. But that's from the perspective of being a guy who likes to fiddle with mechanical things as a hobby. One of the things I like about tractors is working on them, adding things, experimenting with implements....that sort of thing. If I wasn't a mechanical guy I might feel differently about dealerships; just don't know. I might add that I like to support old established small businesses over big corps.... but that's just a personal thing.
So all in all, any advice on dealerships seems like a personal thing.

On 25 vs 35 hp.... That's more mechanical knowledge than opinion. Other than the ability to lift more weight at either end, I feel that both machines will do the same job. It just takes less time with the larger machine and you can run lower RPM doing it.

On operating RPM..... This is a biggie for me because I've always liked to work with a machine at the lower end of the RPM range. It's just how I like to work, other people can differ all they want. The good thing is that with tractors it doesn't make much difference what RPM you start doing a job at because either you naturally advance the throttle as needed, or else the load-sensitive governor does it for you. Every tractor I've ever been on - even the old 195-s 30 HP JD I started with had a decent load sensitive governor and convenient throttle as well. So if you want to set a low base RPM and just advance the throttle as needed to match the load, that works fine. Just don't lug it; lugging it can overheat engine or tranny, but of course that's no different whether it is a car, tractor, or horse.

Just be aware that when a diesel runs at low RPM - especially at idle - it puts more soot in the engine oil. Soot in diesel oil is inevitable and too much is harmful. So extended idle at low RPM means more frequent oil & filter changes are an absolute necessity. And if you pick a tractor with some sort of soot extractor on the exhaust, then extended low RPM is going to make the soot extraction system work harder. So those are the tradeoffs for low RPM work & idle.

I accept the increased maintenance costs of low RPM because running that way also increases how much I enjoy tractoring. The bigger the engine, the better it runs slow.
Tractors don't wear very much. Basically the older the tractor gets, the more I trust it.
rScotty

 

[cphilip]

Except that diesels like to run in the higher end of the RPM range to keep clean. Most recommend running at 1800 to 2000 rpm most of the tme. And if you go over 25 HP your going to inherit the EPA. And there are tractors that have 25 HP and the same weight and size as their 35 HP cousins for a reason and thats the main reason. And a 25 HP tractor is geared completely different than a lawn mower at 25hp. Plus the shear mass size of the engine as well. There is a lot of torque difference between a 1.6L 3 cylinder 25 HP Diesel motor than a 25 HP 800 cc V twin gas motor and both have the same HP ratings. Lets face it, a 25 HP motor ran an 8N ford for all its life too. With gearing. There are some reasons one would get by with and then chose a 25HP and it do what you want almost all the time and at least well enough to live with one to eliminate some headaches of going bigger. And people do downsize to them given the right implements and accessories and application. They work for a lot of people if they fit the application. Playing devils advocate here...

 

[prof fate]

no diesel smoke and fumes - a BIG plus for me.
More hp? always a good thing..what is the downside to it? Maybe more fuel consumption but most folks don't use the tractor enough that it will be noticeable or a concern. More HP when you need it - nothting wrong wtih getting yoru work done sooner..better than wishing you had more power for a job. And you'll work it less hard - nice if yoy like low RPM I suppose. And you'll likely get your most of your money back on resale shoudl that ever be needed.
Since frame size is the same on 25/35 I see no downside to 10 more hp.

 

[Handloader109]

Cphilip, I agree about the 8N, but you don't see any 8Ns that had a fel. At least not OEM. No hydraulics except the 3pt hitch. Major difference in today's vs 80 year old tractor. Get the 35.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Almost every new tractor is delivered with a glitch or two that requires correction. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment. Dealer proximity is less important to those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

Amen to this. I am a neophyte. I could not be happier that I went with a dealer who has been responsive to service needs as well as general questions. While I felt MF was a solid brand, as a newbie, I was a bit nervous not going orange or green. I am very happy with decision I made. No looking back

 

[Geotech]

Thanks for the great comments. I was pretty much settled on the Kioti CK3510HST...BUT, I'm also now considering the LS XG3140H. For about $1,200 more than the Kioti, it has 5 more HP, and about 300 lbs more lift capacity. Dealers for each tractor are relatively close to my property and they're both pretty good from what I can infer. The LS dealer is closed on Saturdays, but would meet me on a Saturday to make a sale. The Kioti dealer is open half a day Saturdays. I am typically only going to be at my property on the weekends, so those Saturday hours might be the deal maker/breaker since I'd like to have some tech support part of the time I'm using the tractor. I need to get a third function and grapple, a box blade and a rotary cutter. So there will be some room for the dealers to be creative with package deal pricing.

 

[cphilip]

If your looking at the Kioti 3510 you certainly should look at the SE model. You get a lot of extras for just a few more dollars. Probably worth the extra once you've decided on the 3510. Its about as much more as you are considering paying for the Kubota for example. Look at it anyway.

 

[ch1ch2]

agreed, I have a skid steer for the log work, much less dangerous, more stable, less stress on equip, if you are looking for one machine to do it all get the heaviest/most lift weight/most HP you can afford - versatility is one thing, trying to use something to its marginal limits is when we get into trouble and more dangerous as well. We have NO pine in my parts, oak/hickory/walnut/hedge/locust so when u grab a log u have weight, for logs when my skid steer is not available and I need to move some distance I use a 706 Farmall w/loader - it weighs 13K with the loader and cab so be sure you have enough tractor - I cut my logs 8 to 14 feet to get them out of the timber/to the road and on a trailer or road them to my house - they are heavy - the saw mill I take them to sometimes has its own lift arms on it, u roll the log up to it and it loads the log on the track to feed it on the mill - a friend of mine just sold his Montana mill and I think it was manual load

be sure you have ballast, that is crucial when working with this stuff out on the front of the tractor, I have had my skid steer on its nose a few times due to uneven ground - I was even going extra SLOW and knew it was uneven, even subtle dips can be dangerous when you are handling more than 75% of capacity because when weight shifts you don't have a lot of options and the wheels are off the ground!!!!

what you are doing is NOT small so thinking small is out of the question

This can not be emphasized enough!

 

[Geotech]

@cphilip, that's a good idea. The goodies on the SE model might well be worth the trade-off of the HP and FEL lift capacity on the LS (LS Tractor, not LS series Kubota). Especially when evaluating the against the LS dealer not being open on Saturdays...I have a feeling that if a better price can be negotiated, it would be more possible to work with whatever is on the lot and not a special order. One thing I have noticed is that the dealers around here don't seem to stock the SE models. That may change toward the end of the year when I plan to make the purchase.

 

[prof fate]

I'm sure price varies - dealer told me the SE is $2500 upgrade...seemed high.
MOST of that I got for $600..rear remotes, link pedal, cruise, horn, floor mat, wires over the hoses. Didn't get tele 3 pt but not sure I'd want them...you can't get exactly tight I"m sure and with an 850 lb brush hog or when discing I want solid tight. Most of my implements are cat 1 (width) but I have 1 that is 0 and another (the big brushog) that is 2, so both take an extra minute to wind the stabilizers in/out. But it's a no-flex final setup. and since I use them constantly (and well, they're new) they move like butter.

I'm not sure what else you get...I had LED worklights from my last tractor, $40 on amazon. I added a tool box..1/2 hour no cost as I had it.


Teh saturday morning hours are GREAT - it's when I usually hit the dealer as all close at 5 during the week.

For 1200 more you could probably get the CK40. I was quoted 1800..but I wasn't getting other implements. I also got free delivery, free filled tires.

Extra lift...my rear lifts long before the front is at capacity. Only once have I had 'the issue' of can't lift it, unloading a bundle of green rought cut maple..so I did it in stages. Once..no big deal. Weekly? Yeah, it'd get annoying.

Haven't lifted a round bale yet (come fall i will) but ti's 1/2 or less the lift capacity. I don't plan to stack automobiles...LOL

Might come down to the ergonomics of each tractor, what you like/dislike on a personal level.

I don't know (but suspect) the price jumps I was quoted for SE and 40hp were higher becausae they had the ck35 in stock and wanted it moved to my farm LOL

If your looking at the Kioti 3510 you certainly should look at the SE model. You get a lot of extras for just a few more dollars. Probably worth the extra once you've decided on the 3510. Its about as much more as you are considering paying for the Kubota for example. Look at it anyway.

 

[NYCheese]

Having just purchased a ck3510se, I can tell you the price difference I was given between the 2 models was 1600 dollars. The dealer had both models on the lot, if that's the difference.