2005 model Ford trucks

cowboydoc · Oct 19, 2004

The only Cummins anyone will see in a Ford is if they get the small cummins from them. 

In the bigger Fords, actual trucks, like a dumptruck, from Ford you have a choice of the cummins, powerstroke or cat motor.

RobertN · Oct 19, 2004

The Cat 3208 was/is found in a lot of the older 7xxx and 8xxx series Ford Cab/Chassis. I wonder if it was designed for that specifically, and then spilled over to other applications?

You know about me and local fire engines /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif A number of them have turbo 3208's, as the Ford "7" and "8" series chassis was a popular buildup. There was some thought of upgrades, but the 3208's are the only thing that would fit in the available room of the engine bay. It's like it was made just to fit in there.

that Chassis series has been around for a long time; there must be a bazillion of them out there.

curiously, what could CAT bring to the table for a pickup truck? I know they make big engines, and are popular in big-rigs. The trucks/engines I have driven have had Cat 3208's, an older engine. Others have had Cummins 8.9l 350hp(nice!) in E28, or a White with a 350 Cummins. The Water Tender here in Shingle has a 2-stroke Detriot V8 in it; it was interesting to drive with the 10spd Road Ranger.

Robert_in_NY · Oct 19, 2004

Your right, I forgot about them /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rozett · Oct 19, 2004

Ford issues with International aren't about the 6.0 PS, but with the V6 diesel for the F150 (and Expedition). The lighter trucks have much stricter EPA emissions requirements. International (and all other diesel manufacturers) has not been able to even come close to meeting them. The first auto manufacturer that can get a light truck into the market with a diesel will make a killing.

kevincook · Oct 19, 2004

( The first auto manufacturer that can get a light truck into the market with a diesel will make a killing. )

My bet is the new Toyota pickup as a 2007 Model. How would that be seen with Toyota beating the three domestic makers to the market /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BTW, built in Texas.....I'd buy one.

Kevin

v8dave · Oct 20, 2004

What would Cat bring to a pick up? How about Caterpillar owns Perkins Engines? The newer Perkins engines are fairly decent. Here is an article that describes Army contractors using a variety of Cat/Perkins engines in their vehicular products.

The old Ford Cab Over truck used the Cat 3208 engines and that dates from the 60s, which is when Ford was making a BIG truck line. And, is around the time Ford helped Caterpillar with the engine design. Here is a picture set of a guy's real heavy duty Ford trucks .

Birdhunter1 · Oct 20, 2004

V8Dave,
There is a local hot rodder/piddler that swapped out a 300 I-6 in an old F-150 for a Perkins out of a MF 165. It was strange to hear it go down the road but the guy claimed 26 mpg's and more pulling power.
If Ford and Perkins got together to put a diesel in an F-150, or 250 for that matter I think I'd have to have one. I am a Ford Truck man anyway and a Massey Ferguson nut so a perkins diesel in a Ford would be awesome IMO.

1bush2hog · Oct 20, 2004

Volkswagen didn't do too good with their light diesel truck back in the early 80's/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowboydoc · Oct 20, 2004

There is a local hot rodder/piddler that swapped out a 300 I-6 in an old F-150 for a Perkins out of a MF 165. It was strange to hear it go down the road but the guy claimed 26 mpg's and more pulling power.


That engine out of that mf was only around 65 hp. Torque was around 125. How in the world could that engine even compare to the first international or cummins that went into pickups that were at 165 hp and 250 torque? It wouldn't. There is absolutely no way that truck produced more pulling power because it would be impossible to get a transmission with low enough to take advantage of the long stroke and still go down the road at more than 20 mph.

I'm not saying he couldnt' have hooked it up to a Ford drive train but the costs and fabrication to do it and make it last would have had to have been very high even if he did it himself. Plus what did they do with the suspension for the weight? The MF engine is going to weigh as much or more as a 6.9 or 5.9 cummins. I'd sure like to know what kind of suspension was put under that thing. And if he was going down the road at more than 40 mph and keeping that thing on the road I'm sure some light truck engineers would like to see how that was accomplished.

wroughtn_harv · Oct 20, 2004

Back in the seventies Richard there were some off road magazines. One of my heroes was a salty old stinker named Granville King. He wrote articles about stuff like field repairing a broken frame with a tractor jack and driving back to civilzation. Walker Evans was kicking class eight truck butt with an almost stock Ford pickup. One year in fact he blew a motor in practice for the Baja 500 and pulled the motor out of his toter and won with it.

There was also a how to on replacing the Ford six with a Perkins in a van. The old boy traveled Mexico and diesel was cheaper and more consistant in quality than gasoline. The end result was unbelievable fuel mileage and according to him, fantastic pulling ability. He said he didn't have the acceleration of the six but where before he had to downshift for hills with the diesel he didn't.

If memory serves me right the motor was rated at fifty horsepower. I don't remember the torque. I do remember the biggest obstacle was the cost of the motor. At that time, again, if I can remember correctly, you could buy three gas motors for the price of one diesel.

I put a brush guard on a local's eighty something Toyota four by four that had a factory diesel. It was peppy and he loved it more'n family. I don't recall how or where he got it. But he was prouder'n than having a full head of hair having that truck.

JerryG · Oct 20, 2004

These was a farmer here that did the exact same thing as Birdhunters guy did. He loved it and said the miles was great.

Richard, that is a smaller 4 cylinder engine that I don't think weighted as much as a big block. Weight wasn't a problem.

bgott · Oct 20, 2004

I ran across a guy who stuck a 108 c.i. Mercedes diesel in a '40s IH pickup once. He adapted the engine to the stock granny box 4 speed and then ran a 3 speed trans behind that. If I remember correctly it was an overdrive. It wasn't a hot rod, heck, the Mercedes diesel car back then with that motor was a total pig, but with triple reduction and the granny gear in the four speed it could pull the frame apart if you weren't careful.I remember him telling me that he tore it up something fierce before he realized how heavy the crossmembers had to be to mount the three speed. Those trucks had super low rear axle gears in them anyway so compound low was really low. I haven't done the math but I figure it was geared lower than a tractor when you figure in the smaller tire size. Overdrive would have made it easier to drive at highway speeds than with the stock engine.

cowboydoc · Oct 20, 2004

Ok I believe you guys but how in the world do you get a 50 hp motor in a pickup, which is pretty heavy, to go much over 30 or 40? And then you say it had more power for not shifting down which equates to torque so how could it have more torque than an inline six? We had several of those inline sixes on the ranches. As far as torque they had about everything beat. I've rebuilt alot of 4 cylinder tractor motors and that inline six a couple times. Every 4 cyclinder diesel I ever worked on was ALOT heavier than those six cylinders no contest.

wroughtn_harv · Oct 20, 2004

Richard all of us old guys at one time or another has known someone like Bgott described. I used to have a neighbor in California who had a Ford with two three speed transmissions hooked up together. Low low was not moving more'n a mile a month. High high had the motor motor barely turning at freeway speeds.

Around town it was the back transmission in second and you used the one on the tree like normal. He used low in the rear transmission for moving his travel trailer when parking etc. And he only used high in the rear one when cruising down the interstate.

Some of the old guys had some neat stuff. I once had an old boy with a sixty five Malibu come in to use my welding equipment to do a repair. This was about 1975. It was a two door Chevelle with a ball hitch located between the rear window and the trunk. He'd built a gooseneck kind of hitch for his travel trailer. The Chevelle was his toter.

What he repaired was a trailer locator. It had two wheelbarrow type wheels driven by a briggs motor about two or three horsepower. The way it worked was he had a handle like the tongue of a kid's wagon for steering. He also had a forward and reverse transmission and hand throttle. He'd disconnect the trailer from the car. And then he'd get out his locator and put the trailer in it's place.

He was probably the most ingenious man I've ever known. I only got to talk to him for a couple of hours that day but it was a treat. He claimed to have been the one who invented thr process for cast aluminum race car wheels, said he worked for Cragar.

Thinking of him reminds me of the time I'd went to a yard sale with my dad to pick up a skillsaw. The fella had died and the family was cleaning out his stuff. In the garage was a frame of a motor home in the process of coming together. What fascinated me about it was he'd found the front drive train and motor from an Olds Toronado. They had only been out a year or so at the time but he was already on top of it.

I'm sure there are still some birds like that out there these days. But I'm just as sure there are teams of people in white suits with nets searching for them high and low. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Oct 20, 2004

( He'd built a gooseneck kind of hitch for his travel trailer. The Chevelle was his toter. )

Quite a few years ago, in one of my RV magazines, there were pictures and a story about a Cadillac with a fifth-wheel hitch on the roof for his trailer.

( a trailer locator )

I don't recall seeing a gasoline powered one, but it sounds much like the electric Power Caster.

( motor home in the process of coming together. What fascinated me about it was he'd found the front drive train and motor from an Olds Toronado )

I guess you know that was the drivetrain used by the GMC motorhomes in the mid-70s.

ScottAR · Oct 20, 2004

Tractor motors in trucks is not a far fetched idea. AMC made half a dozen Jeeps with perkins 4cyl. There's a guy at another forum I go to that has one. They were prototypes and Jeep denys even making them but....

There's an older feller around here with a 63-64?? Ford F250 dually with a 453 detroit in it. I forgot to ask him what he pulled it out of. Can hear him comin' too... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edit: Ooh ooh I forgot, There's a guy on my bronco mailing list that took a 3.9 cummins from a Case forklift, bolted in a dodge truck trans. and now has a diesel Early bronco. That's an easy one...

BigDave · Oct 20, 2004

Doc,

I had a Suzuki SJ410 SUV. Please notice I didn't call it a Jeep. It had 45hp, and 50+lbs of torque from a one liter engine. The suzuki weighed about 2500lbs, so it was about half the weight of a full-size truck, but it could get up to 75mph. I would think a full-size truck with 60hp & 120lbs of torque could go 60 without too much difficulty.

bgott · Oct 20, 2004

The 4- 53 Detroit and the 6- 354 Perkins were very popular conversions back in the days before you could get a diesel in a pickup.

wroughtn_harv · Oct 21, 2004

The first time I looked at the Suzuki it's selling points was it fit in the back of a three quarter ton pickup bed. The motor was a two stroke that pumped out twenty five horses. And there was a trick pipe available that added another three or four at higher rpm's.

A couple of years after that I was given a serious run for my money up a sand dune by one with a Datsun 1600 engine that was built and strong. Supposedly the drive train was stock except for the hot motor.

My ride was was a 59 or 60 CJ5 with a built smallblock and a Super T Ten four speed. She was a getter. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

One of the more fun vehicles was a stock more or less 79 Chevy van. It had a three fifty with a three on the tree. I needed lower gears for hauling a racecar on a trailer. So I installed a Saginaw four speed. It was an instant swap, bolted right in.

Then I noticed the stock linkage for the three speed looked like it would hook up to the new trans. I tried it, had myself a four on the tree. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I drilled a hole in the floorboard and had a rod that shifted reverse.

I'd pull up to some gearhead kid at a light. They knew the three fifty. They knew what I'd done to it. They also knew I only had three on the tree. I'd short shift just to catch fourth gear and see the heads spin. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif