Buying Advice 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

[TripleR]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

Very good, well balanced information and advice on which I really can't improve and you've probably come to the conclusion there is no clear "winner" in the gear vs HST debate, one being there are several variations in fears and two or three in HST, standard HST, HST+, eHydro etc.

My brother and I have several properties and about eleven tractors from SCUTs to Ag, from one year to sixty years old and I'm to the point I only use two cab units, L5740HSTC and M8540HDC, so I routinely use an HST as well as gear and the gap between ease of use between these types is pretty narrow. My sons and I often work these tractors side by side and they're really close in speed, but the person on the hydro-shuttle, will be much more fatigued at the end of a long day; been there many times and it makes no difference if you're in your 30s, 40s or 60s. Now I'm talking about the hobbyist/occasional user etc., not professional operator, I've been both.

The size seems about right and you will in all likelihood find more trouble finding that size with a hydraulic shuttle and fully synchronized transmission. I usually recommend that someone new to tractors rent as close to their ideal tractor for a weekend to gt a baseline for comparison. I've found driving around on the dealer's lot more beneficial than looking at brochures, but I've only bought one tractor I really liked based on such a short time, I was very underwhelmed by my L5740HSTC, it took me some time to appreciate all the features and now love it. A few hours will much more easily reveal the advantages, disadvantages of each system.

Be sure to try out a relatively new model in good condition, several years ago I drove an old worn out gray market Kubota HST and would not touch another for years.

These may give you some basic information to use in your research; just a few to get you started, there a lots out there:

TractorData.com - Power Take-Off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX5J5suE-Gs

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/262010-tractor-acronyms.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/owning-operating/262010-tractor-acronyms.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSatF4QoqmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzdqA6NlXO0

 

[fishheadbob]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

I have both HST and shuttle shift tractors. I have no preference on transmission type.

 

[k0ua]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

My left knee likes hydrostat tractors a lot And yes I am 60. My left knee did not care so much when it was newer.

I think anything from 35 to 50 horsepower would be great for you. I also think if you got a grapple you would never be without one again on your property and doing the things you need to do like picking up limbs and clearing brush etc. I have one, and it is dang useful, and I don't have near the amount of work to use it for that you do. A set of pallet forks can be handy too for moving things on pallets. If you don't have a cab, a canopy can be nice to keep the sun from cooking your brains. Mine is steel and handles small limbs pretty well. Just go slow (with all that wonderful control a hydrostatic transmission gives you. ) and watch what you are doing around limbs. You would not believe the difference a canopy makes when mowing out in the sun for hours. I found I could easily work in 100 degree heat with the canopy as long as the sun was not beating down on my body and head all day. here are some pictures of my little Kioti DK35se hydro equipped tractor and some attachments. In my opinion (and yes everyone has one) is that it would work fine for your needs.

 

[TSO]

To the OP: I also think you are on the right track and I would suggest a large framed CUT with HST, around 50 HP. You offered a generous budget ($30k) and that should allow you to get pretty much any 50 HP CUT that you take a shining to.

You can focus on the different things that make one machine standout from another. Things like loader characteristics (lift strength and height), features (remotes, seats, extendable links, etc), layout (lever & button placement, to your liking), advanced features (transmission options like linked throttles, HST+, sensitivity controls, etc), overall machine feel (to your liking), dealer impressions/support, and finally price.

You will be able to get a distinct feel from each machine you test, and you'll find things you like and dislike from all of them. Additionally, each machine will truly have specs and features that will put it ahead of, or behind, competing models. But, most will have features and specs to handle the tasks you'll be performing.

A couple things to point out... LS builds the BOOMER (except cab models) & smaller WorkMaster tractors for NH (as well as the Case twins)... And it's typically cheaper to buy LS right from LS.

Also, 0% isn't always the best "deal" because manufacturers typically build in that finance cost into the price. Paying cash, or financing thru AgriCredit our AgDirect, or even a local bank or credit union, might save you money. Something worth checking into. Just don't necessarily fall for the "0%" BS... You pay for it somehow.

I disagree with the HST, I would never have it on a tractor, shuttle shift all the way.

I disagree with the shuttle shift, I would never have it on a tractor, HST all the way.

Except... If my main uses were ground-engaging tasks (like field plowing or discing).

Second, buy a Kubota. They are the gold standard...

LOL... That's cute.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

Personally, I think the qualifications hills and lots of forward and back make it easy to see that an HST machine will be easier to use, but also more enjoyable to use, safer, and offer longer life than a gear machine. Even the big push-button gear change and push button clutch power shuttle shift Kubota that I just got hired to run clearing snow at the mall is a much bigger pain to operate than my HST machine.

Notably I need to set the parking brake on hills and I cannot feather power with the precision of an HST machine.

The pushback that HST machines lose a little power is lost in the context that HST machines can go infinitely slow. In other words, any power that is lost just means that your operating speed is just a tad slower is all, and again: all with precision and ease of control both which lowers the stress of working the tractor and overall enjoyment of using the tractor.

For me, the gear and HST issue comes down to the same kind of mentality that wonders why anybody would order the tailgate step and tailgate pole on their pickup trucks. Young men do not see the need while older people think a tailgate step is the best pickup truck invention since the heated steering wheel.

Woods wise, ask your dealer about installing belly plates to protect the underside of any tractor venturing out into brush or trees. I lost a gas tank before prioritizing tabbing underside armor.

Rotary cutter wise, I now realize I could have purchased an even heavier cutter than the Woods BB720X using a 60hp HST machine but the guys on this web site had me thinking that I was nearing the top of my capabilities.

 

[varmint]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

I might have missed it, but whatever you go with, get a SSQA loader bucket- other than that, seems like a lot of good advice to sort thru! Nobody mentioned it, but if you will be operating over a lawn type area, a larger tractor will cause a lot of compaction and damage. I learned that the hard way.

 

[k0ua]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

I might have missed it, but whatever you go with, get a SSQA loader bucket- other than that, seems like a lot of good advice to sort thru! Nobody mentioned it, but if you will be operating over a lawn type area, a larger tractor will cause a lot of compaction and damage. I learned that the hard way.

yes, good points varmint. With SSQA on your loader, comes all the other expensive things you can put on later, like the pallet forks, the grapples, etc.

 

[Probity]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

Many thanks to all the TBNers who have passed on their insights! It has been VERY helpful, nothing beats the voices of experience. Wish I had started roaming this site a couple years ago...

Based on all the feedback I am regrouping some on my buying strategy. Here is my rev1 plan now:
*I won't be running out and buying a NH Workmaster 55 until I comparative shop some more. The HST vs shuttle shift geared comments have made me look longer term than just what I want to tackle this winter/spring. Yep my knees seem OK now but who knows if I can say the same 3-5 years out. Running my little 24HP Husqvarna HST riding mower sure is easy when I want to back up and cut at the same time, I am getting convinced I might feel the same way with a tractor rotary cutter after a couple hours of back and forth. I have not 100% given up on the idea of a shuttle shift but it is in my best interest to look hard at HST vehicles before laying down my money.
*I will give a look at LS and Kioti dealers. I never really looked into Kioti tractors before roaming TBN, my 1st thought was Oh, they must be some off-brand Chinese models. But I see they are Korean and have been in US market a number of years, many TBN users have them (mainly with HSTs) and they get pretty high marks overall. Same to a degree with LS. Months ago when I was considering 35-40 HP tractors, I learned LS made New Hollands smaller Workmasters and their Boomers, but I never looked closely at LS because I convinced myself to go bigger, and the WM 55 really caught my eye.
*I will spend a little more time at Kubota dealers also, as initially their 45-55 HP shuttle shift prices put me off (never really looked at their HSTs).
*Dealer support will be important to me, mainly because of the potential for early warranty issues. This hopefully will never happen but it is a form of insurance to me and will make me 'feel better'. NH and Kubota have an edge here because a lot more dealers in a 50 mile radius, but if I do trip the trigger on an HST then NH is pretty much out as I think I can probably get a comparable machine to their Boomer 50 at a better price (we will see). I will have to visit LS and Kioti dealers to get a feel for their market presence in my area. There is an LS dealer within 30 miles. Kioti, I need to check on. There are dealers within 50 miles that say they carry the Kioti line but I have not visited any.
*I am a function-over-form person (that is what appealed to me with the WM 55, simple operation and minimal electronics). But I did test-sit a few difference tractors, and my impression every time regards the controls and ergonomics was Oh, that is different, but I could get used to that. That is a function of me never having operated a tractor before, but I still believe that if I get the basics right (HP, chassis size, TRANSMISSION, 3ph, position control) then I will be OK.
*I will probably have to be a little more flexible on considering new Tier 4 machines, given current new in-stock inventory levels of 50 HP range CUTs (especially with HST and no cab). Have done a little checking since last night, and pretty thin. But as long as price is not a killer then I can bite my tongue if I decide I love a particular model.
*I like k0ua's comment on getting a metal canopy. I have always planned on getting a canopy, but because I am frugal (cheap) I had earlier priced plastic ones. But he is right, the woods work might tear up a plastic cover but not so much a metal one. I have a plastic canopy on my Mule and it has suffered some abuse just cruising around under my landscaping trees. As we used to say when I was working for a living, At the end of the day, it only costs a little more to go with the LOW bid...
*I like erictheoracle's comment on considering a skid pan. The one on my Mule gets used (unfortunately), and I also put one on my motorbike that also came in handy a time or 2.

I will let you know how this plays out for me. FYI, below is a pic of my pride and joy property, click to enlarge (hopefully I did the 'attach image' correctly).

View attachment 408718

 

[nybirdman]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

You are in the right range for your uses.As for additions the SSQA,extentable end links and a rear and front(third function) hydraulics.Heaviest bucket they make for whatever tractor you purchase.

 

[tractorshopper]

Re: 1st Time "Hobby Farm" Tractor Buyer/User - What do experienced users advise?

For the work you mentioned, I second others' opinions that you should seriously look at a grapple. Also if you are doing any of that grapple work and/or loader work, I would agree with most that HST is the way to go.

My biggest comparative experience has been one day that my brother was on his older larger Case tractor and I was on my Kubota L3800 working side by side trying to pop some small trees and stumps and moving dirt piles at his property (45 acres) reclaiming old farming land that had been let go back to nature for probably 10 years or more. His older tractor was much larger and heavier than mine with much more lift capacity, power, and bucket size, but I accomplished about 3/4 or more of the work that day. The difference between the two was that his was a gear tractor and mine was a HST. To be fair, another advantage that I had was a tooth bar that helped me when pushing fully into piles and digging and sticking a tooth under roots. Either way, we both agreed that with HST, you can just run in and out and basically while at it, have much more finite control with placement, speed, etc.

I would feel comfortable recommending a Kubota or whatever color you choose in the MX-5100 size, but honestly I feel like my L3800 would have been a fine tractor and plenty of it for 37 acres doing the type work you described. And you could get a new one with plenty of implements and a trailer easily under your budget.

Plan for a box blade and loaded rear wheels to greatly help with loader work stability and maximizing what you can lift. Box blades are great for counter balance and very useful all around. Some buy rear weight boxes, but for the same $, this way you get a useful implement. Without some weight on the rear, you'll never be able to lift the same amount with the loader. You'll just lift your rear wheels off the ground and lose traction.

Now bush-hogging large fields or lots of ground-engaging work, etc, maybe it would be nice to have a gear tractor to just set it in gear and ride on, but you can get cruise control as an option for most other HST tractors too.