1952 8N water leak?

[deerefan]

I was mowing the other day and when I left the tractor I noticed what looked like water running down the side of the block, just above the starter. I traced it back to the mating surface of the block and head. My first assumption was a faulty head gasket, but the tractor runs well, no water in the oil and does not run hot. Any thoughts as to what it could be?

 

[Soundguy]

lets see..

you see water running from the seam of the head to the block, and you rule out head gasket.... ( WTF!?! )

sorry.. can't help ya..

ps.. ford n is a L head.. there are NO oil passageways in the head.

soundguy

 

[chriscos]

Head Gasket

 

[deerefan]

lets see..

you see water running from the seam of the head to the block, and you rule out head gasket.... ( WTF!?! )

sorry.. can't help ya..

ps.. ford n is a L head.. there are NO oil passageways in the head.

soundguy

I ASSUMED it was not the head gasket as I am used to motors with head gasket problems (mainly cars and trucks) showing signs such as overheating, misfire, oil and water mixed, etc.. I am sorry I am not as knowledgeable as you on the 8N motor. It stumped me b/c the tractor runs fine. I thought that is what these forums were for, to ask questions of folks with more knowledge than what I possess, did not realize my lack of knowledge would get you ruffled. Anyway, from your response and the next it is safe to say the head gasket is the issue. Now, as far as replacing it, I have the tourqe pattern on the bolts, any other info I might need or is it simply remove, replace gasket and reassemble?

 

[RickB]

I ASSUMED it was not the head gasket as I am used to motors with head gasket problems (mainly cars and trucks) showing signs such as overheating, misfire, oil and water mixed, etc..

Now, as far as replacing it, I have the tourqe pattern on the bolts, any other info I might need or is it simply remove, replace gasket and reassemble?

The obvious symptom of coolant running down the side of the block from a point where the head and block meet is a pretty universal indication of head gasket failure. Nothing peculiar to flathead or N series engines. Check the head in several places with a straightedge, or take it to a machine shop and have them check it for being flat and for cracks.

 

[Soundguy]

I ASSUMED it was not the head gasket as I am used to motors with head gasket problems (mainly cars and trucks) showing signs such as overheating, misfire, oil and water mixed, etc..

as Rick said. a leak at the seam of the head and block.. that is almost categorically a head gasket issue. other problems may be underlying like a porus block, cracked block or cracked head.. but you will be pulling the head to check that anyway.. and that means changing the head gasket.. which is the first 20$ test I'd do on it after the visual inspection for flaws and flatness.

and that isn't specific to an N either..

With no oil passages in the head, and an external leak.. and no water in the oil, or combustion byproducts in the water, it makes it an even safer bet on the head gasket, vs a cracked head / cracked block...

I am sorry I am not as knowledgeable as you on the 8N motor.

I make no claim of any special knowledge on an N engine...

did not realize ..would get you ruffled.

I didn't get ruffled

you , in your question, ruled out head gasket as a possibility.. thus i said I couldn't help you...

what use would it have served tellyou it was something you had already decided it could not be?

soundguy

 

[deerefan]

as Rick said. a leak at the seam of the head and block.. that is almost categorically a head gasket issue. other problems may be underlying like a porus block, cracked block or cracked head.. but you will be pulling the head to check that anyway.. and that means changing the head gasket.. which is the first 20$ test I'd do on it after the visual inspection for flaws and flatness.

and that isn't specific to an N either..

With no oil passages in the head, and an external leak.. and no water in the oil, or combustion byproducts in the water, it makes it an even safer bet on the head gasket, vs a cracked head / cracked block...





I make no claim of any special knowledge on an N engine...





I didn't get ruffled

you , in your question, ruled out head gasket as a possibility.. thus i said I couldn't help you...

what use would it have served tellyou it was something you had already decided it could not be?

soundguy

I am hoping it is not a cracked head or worse. It is pretty hard to tell but from the advice given it points at head gasket. The leak is very small so hopefully it can wait until winter. When I get it apart I will take some pics of what is found.

 

[Soundguy]

If you don't fix it now.. don't run it.

if you fix it later, drain the rad and block in case it is leaking into the crankcase minutely, or into a combustion cyl.

if the head is cracked.. no biggie.. it's a flatty.. heads are cheap.. used or new.



with an external leak like that and no oil / radiator involvement apparrent.. I think you got a great chance of it being a 20$ HG and an hour of work.

remember to retorque it after warming.

soundguy

 

[deerefan]

If you don't fix it now.. don't run it.

if you fix it later, drain the rad and block in case it is leaking into the crankcase minutely, or into a combustion cyl.

if the head is cracked.. no biggie.. it's a flatty.. heads are cheap.. used or new.



with an external leak like that and no oil / radiator involvement apparrent.. I think you got a great chance of it being a 20$ HG and an hour of work.

remember to retorque it after warming.

soundguy

Yea, did a little research last night and I think I was making it more complicated than it needed to be. I am used to more modern engines (OHV, DOHC). My dad went through this engine when he first bought the tractor about 10 years ago and emailed me the tourqe pattern for the headbolts. Now that I know it is easier than I thought, I will pull it down this month and replace the headgasket and check the head and block.

 

[jonyyuma]

After planing the 8N head for trueness.You might want to check the headbolts. they are cheap insurance againest pulling one into and stretching, thus another gasket replacement. I went with grade 5 after one of mine felt "soft" on reassembly...It was ready to break..

 

[deerefan]

After planing the 8N head for trueness.You might want to check the headbolts. they are cheap insurance againest pulling one into and stretching, thus another gasket replacement. I went with grade 5 after one of mine felt "soft" on reassembly...It was ready to break..

I will check the ones in place before I do anything. I have heard they can work loose.

 

[Soundguy]

Yea, did a little research last night and I think I was making it more complicated than it needed to be. I am used to more modern engines (OHV, DOHC). My dad went through this engine when he first bought the tractor about 10 years ago and emailed me the tourqe pattern for the headbolts. Now that I know it is easier than I thought, I will pull it down this month and replace the headgasket and check the head and block.

I was wondering why you were so worried about it being a head removal.. it's a 15# slab of cast iron with some water passageds and bolt holes drilled in it essentially.. no oil.. no cam.. no valve train. it's a real easy / fast job. i think the hour I mentioned was an over-exageration.. might do it in half that if none of the studs or bolts give you an issue..

As for modern? ford had an ohv engine out in late 52.. it repalced the N engine we are talking baout.. so the concept of an OHV engine is still 'old' as it is int he same time frame as these flatties.. only head simpler than that N engine head is a lawnmower or air compressor air cooled head..

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I will check the ones in place before I do anything. I have heard they can work loose.

biggest problem with the studs or bolts is waisting.

repalce any fasteners if they look less than perfect. gr5 is fine.

also.. keep in mind many holes are thru and wet, and some holes are blind and dry.. don't let water get into the dry blind holes as you can hydraulically crack the block when the fastener tightens down into there. I've seen corners of blocks cracked out like that.

also.. if you snap a bolt off don't panic. pull the hood and gas tank so you can look down onto it to work and go from there.

in many cases they snap even with the head and onc ethe head is off you have a shank to get a stud puller on.. or can lay a nut over the shank and weld to it and remove.. or lastly, drill out and extract.

if a hole in the block becomes stripped.. again.. there are repair methods.. anything from inserts ( not my favorite ), to drilling oversize for a cast iron plug, then drilling the plug for oem hole size and tapping ( my favorite ).

on the dry blind holes.. no thread pucky needed on the head fasteners.. on the wet holes.. use a thread pucky to seal them.. harvey's or gasoila or something similar...

soundguy