1430 mini-hoe (Lackender vs PT)

[IrTxRx]

I will finally be purchasing my PT 1430 with the following attachments:
Brushcutter, Grapple, LM bucket,wheel trencher, +/- cement mixer, and mini-hoe. I know there are some who have the Lackender and many who have the PT mini-hoe and feel that this is their most appreciated attachment (with thumb of course!!!)

The Lackender is about $600-$800 more than PT (plus additional shipping vs adding to PT shipping order).

My main uses will be:

1.) digging approx 4 ft down in soft dirt behind Lake house retaining wall X 35 ft

2.) cleaning out ditches beside 1/4 mile dirt drive (e.g. mini-mini-gradall) some soft, but mostly hard packed

3.) used after wheel trencher to clean out trench for conduit or water pipe...very hard soil to rock

4.)With thumb using as a grapple boom (to pick up landscape rocks), moving large pieces of brush, holding large logs for chainsaw, and grubbing out small trees/brush (again mostly hard pack to rock)

How well is the mini-hoe +thumb suited to these tasks? Are there tasks to which one brand will be superior to the other? Will the the additional strength (and weight) of the Lackender be an overall advantage or liability on the 1430 (or other PT 1200# lift machine)? Does anyone know if PT offers a 12" bucket for their minihoe and does it work?

It has been four long years waiting and saving and deciding if this machine (with QC warts and all) is for me. However, it has also been fun reading about all your activities, successes, improvements and fixes for that same time period. I would like to again thank all for the information you have provided and tell you to get ready... I expect to go from a bronze to "poster most high of all posters" AFTER I get the PT and begin doing some work/play with the machine.

Thanks again.

 

[Bob999]

My main uses will be:

1.) digging approx 4 ft down in soft dirt behind Lake house retaining wall X 35 ft

I have the PT mini hoe for the 1845 which I understand is the same as the one for the 1430. In my experience it is a bit short to dig 4 ft.

 

[IrTxRx]

Bob,

Would it be correct to assume that the lower and lower you go the harder and harder it gets to excavate with either brand. but the longer boom of the lackender lets it get difficult after 4-5 ft instead of 2-3 ft???

This particular project is a one time deal...after that I cannot see needing to dig any 4ft holes. Right now the project is planned to be done with a shovel or renting the smallest tracked excavator we can find.

Thanks

 

[ponytug]

If it is a one (or two) time project, it might be much more cost effective just to rent something.

For trenching, you might want to think about something like this;

Hitch-N-Ditch
$285, plus shipping.

Even if it took you a couple of passes, it might be useful.

All the best,

Peter

Bob,

Would it be correct to assume that the lower and lower you go the harder and harder it gets to excavate with either brand. but the longer boom of the lackender lets it get difficult after 4-5 ft instead of 2-3 ft???

This particular project is a one time deal...after that I cannot see needing to dig any 4ft holes. Right now the project is planned to be done with a shovel or renting the smallest tracked excavator we can find.

Thanks

 

[KentT]

PT offers a 12" bucket. I've never seen nor used a Lackender, only the pictures here.

Given that, if you budget can stand the difference, I'd go for it. It's longer and heavier duty. Note that with the PT, you're using the bucket curl cylinder and primarily the cylinder on the minihoe to get your "ripout force," not the lift arms. I don't think the heavier weight would be a big problem with your 1200 lb lift capacity...

 

[SpringHollow]

I needed a greater depth than the PT mini hoe provides (frost line is about 48" deep here). That's why I looked around and found the Lackender site. He had a Baby Boomer Backhoe w/3" cylinder and relief valve. With a 12" bucket, it cost less than $200 more than PT's. The thumb was extra. For my needs, the extra money was well worth the ability to dig deeper. It looks heavier duty than PT's. I have dug 130' of trench with it but I have not used the thumb for lifting stuff yet. Carl probably can tell you if the extra weight caused him problems since he got the same unit.

The Baby Boomer is smaller than the Boomer (6' digging depth vs 7' digging depth), weighs less, and is less expensive. At the time, he only had a couple in stock and it was unclear if he was going to have more of the smaller ones made. You might ask. They were not listed at the time on his web site.

Ken

 

[IrTxRx]

Pony - My ground is too hard, rocky and uneven for the Hitch-N-Ditch. but neat idea... kind of a poor man's vibratory plow. Also, no question that for the one 4 ft digging project renting would be more cost effective... But I'm getting a minihoe anyway, so would be nice if I could help out my Father-in-law with my equipment (the waterfront of the lakehouse is sloping and very tight access---PT perfect!!!!)

Kent - My frost line is about 1" so the wheel trencher will be my main go-to implement for running various lines.

Ksimolo - I think that baby boomer may be the sweet spot...Little more reach, little more heft, little more breakout, but won't overload the PT

Group -- is there any expected difference in "breakout" force between the PT and Lackender hoe... And does it really matter? Thanks

 

[RegL]

I have the 1430 and PT mini hoe. I'm pretty sure I can't dig 4' deep. If I had known about the Lackender hoes when I purchased mine I probably would have gone for it. The one thing I do like about the PT mini hoe, is that it's light enough for me to pick up, so when ever I'm going to do a job with the PT I through the mini hoe on the trailer just in case I need it.

 

[Rip]

IrTxRx,

I have a never-used Lackender BabyBoomer with thumb and hydraulic bucket curl plus 8" and 12" buckets that I bought for my 1845 (same attachment plate as 1430) for sale. I am in the middle of the Rockies and there just is not anyplace I needed to dig that anything less than a full-blown TLB could handle.

It is very stout, but the tractor simply can not apply enough down pressure for my conditions. It is the only attachment out of 9 total that I do not use regularly.

I can put it on a pallet and bring to a truck terminal in next few weeks, otherwise not until after first of year. PM me if interested.

Rip

 

[IrTxRx]

I have the 1430 and PT mini hoe. I'm pretty sure I can't dig 4' deep. If I had known about the Lackender hoes when I purchased mine I probably would have gone for it. .

I'm really not worried about digging depth. Even if mini-hoes only dig 2.5 ft deep, that's still a lot of dirt I don't have to dig by hand. What do you like about the Lackender vs the PT? What would have lead you to purchase Lackender over PT?

 

[SpringHollow]

I think RegL just made the decision easy for you.

I will say there is no way I can lift the Lackender mini hoe.

Ken

 

[Bob999]

Bob,

Would it be correct to assume that the lower and lower you go the harder and harder it gets to excavate with either brand. but the longer boom of the lackender lets it get difficult after 4-5 ft instead of 2-3 ft???

This particular project is a one time deal...after that I cannot see needing to dig any 4ft holes. Right now the project is planned to be done with a shovel or renting the smallest tracked excavator we can find.

Thanks

I have no experience with the Lackender hoe so I can't offer a comparison.

I would characterize the difficulty of digging deeper as having two factors:
1. Reach--with the PT hoe to get down to 3.5 feet the hoe needs to be nearly verticle and the bucket extended;
1. In my soils the shale generally gets harder the deeper I go--hence more difficult digging but in this situation you want the hoe more nearly vertical with excellent breakout force from the cylinder on the hoe because the PT is relatively light for use with a backhoe and has no outriggers to stabilize it. If you use the cylinder with the hoe extended out horizontal it tends to pull the machine around.

 

[IrTxRx]

I think RegL just made the decision easy for you.

I will say there is no way I can lift the Lackender mini hoe.

Ken

BTW -- how does one get a +/- 500# attachment on and off the PT attachment plate when it is lying sideways on the ground?

Rip -- did you find it a useful tool with the thumb, or really to big for the #1200 series?

 

[woodlandfarms]

So, I have used my Back Hoe a bit. Mixed environment. Some digging, some thumb work. In my head it is all brilliant. I would love the thumb to be Hydraulic, and would love to have a true backhoe but that is not in the cards...So this works fine.

I bought this first and foremost because of Ken Simolo. I hold his research level and intelligence in high regards and when he said this is what he was doing I followed like a puppy.

In my head there were a few nice things.. The Lackender is beefy as all get out. PT's looked a little thin. Lacks is heavier, but that is no real deal breaker. I am not trying to lift that heavy of stuff. And the cylinder for the dig part was stouter than PTs.

I have broken the PT over the Hoe. lackenders is long. And even fully up you have to be careful not to put the bucket all the way down cause it will catch... Like this /\... Anyway, I was tooling around the property, decided to go up a steep embankment and POW. Like a gunshot. Caught the head of the bucket on the ridge. I broke the upper ball joint that attaches to my tilt plate. Went to the shop and had a new one welded on for $40 all in...

I think it was JJ who mentioned that the digging force on the hoe is more a function of the scooping than the down force. I can attest to that.

My soil is clay, few rocks....

This video is of my wife using the hoe for the first time. As JJ pointed out she is trying to dig with the arm and not with the head.

Finally, the hoe is a PITA without the mods to the locking lever. If you have a bad back it will scream at you after a day with the hoe...

I also bought the boom attachment from Lackender. In the photo it has my Blackberry rake that broke immediately. But you can see the reach is phenomenal. It is a bit of a pain to take the bucket off then bolt this on, but it still does what it is supposed to....

Video of the wife at work

YouTube - back hoe

 

[SnowRidge]

Good grief! You can work in the next county with that thing.

 

[SnowRidge]

Thanks for posting that video. That's the first time I have seen a mini hoe of any type in action. It looks like it is a lot slower operation than I had anticipated.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Well, it is my wife operating it for the first time... But, IMO, it is slower than a real backhoe. Using the control at your knee to manipulate the bucket is a real PITA. It is going to be one of my winter mods...

As I got more used to it this fall the projects went faster and faster..

Carl

 

[bbabineau]

I have a 1430 with PT minihoe and have dug probably 3 or 4 hundred feet of trenches for drain or water lines. Our property is heavily rocked and I have pulled out some up to six or eight hundred pounds with the minihoe and thumb. While the minihoe is my favorite attachment I would like it to be longer. There is really no way to dig a four foot trench unless you are right on top of it and it is reaching full down exerting no real digging effort. Fortunately I have never found it necessary to go that deep.
From viewing the Lackender video I would like the added reach but I would be troubled by the lack of visibility around the attachment plate. It is hard enough to see around the PT plate to where you are trying to dig without adding the big lackender plate as an additional obstruction.
The visibility is really the downside of the PT minihoe. I compare this to a small mini excavator that I rented to clean out a creek and I would say the reach and visiblity of the excavator made it so much easier to use than the minihoe that I would always go for the excavator at $250 per day for anything that will require more than a few hours of work for the minihoe.

 

[ponytug]

I definitely agree. I went to Tazewell expecting to buy a mini-hoe, but watching an expert dig a 6"x6"x10' ditch in about three minutes with one was not impressive- especially since the trencher cut a 6"x36"x10' trench in the same time.

That said, I have found a few things where a minihoe would have been useful, but for my uses not enough to make it worthwhile. It all depends on your particular conditions.

All the best,

Peter

Thanks for posting that video. That's the first time I have seen a mini hoe of any type in action. It looks like it is a lot slower operation than I had anticipated.

 

[woodlandfarms]

hmmm... trencher..... sounds good. I so want one, it and a Stump Grinder are the two things on top of my list to get (along with a sprayer)....