Oil & Fuel 0% Sulfur in diesel

[Richardb]

Yesterdays local newspaper reported that the EPA is planning on cutting the sulfur out of diesel fuel incrementally till it is at 0% in 2007. What does this mean to us who own older Kubota diesel tractors? Why is the sulfur important? Are there additives that do the same job? Are newer engines specifically designed for low sulfur?

 

[Bird]

Richardb, I watched that story on the NBC national news last night and wondered myself. And we're getting into a topic that I know next to nothing about, but it's my understanding that the sulfur is a lubricant, so I would expect that some additive would do the job instead, but don't really know. My 1999 B2710 manual specifies a "maximum" sulfur content of .50%, but says nothing about a "minimum". Does that mean 0% is OK? I guess we'll have some time to find out anyway.

Bird

 

[Mryan]

I have not seen this story yet, but I will be curios to see the impact on prices. The cost of purifying diesel further is likely to be significant and I'm not sure that current production methods are capable. Of course we will all end up footing the bill.

I am fairly certain that the lubricating properties of the sulfur will be replaced by another, less harmful /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif, additive.

Mike.

 

[_RaT_]

I can tell you this much about the topic of cleaner diesel. Back in about 1995, California went to a very low polluting low sulphur (no sulphur?)formula of diesel. At first the only thing we noticed about it was the extra cost of the fuel, which, by the way, is $1.49/gal.as I write. (not the red fuel) It wasn't long before the trucking companys had engine failures, or should I say, injection pump failures. Apparently, the lessened lubricating quality in the fuel was compromising the O rings that were already on their last legs. For about a year, stories continued croping up about this problem, and its associated costs. I havent read about these failure story now for years. Stanadyne makes an additive for all diesels that corrects the problem with the "new California diesel" by restoring the lubricating qualities. It does other things as well, it become a hot item to have when this new fuel hit. To me, here in CA, the diesels I see on the road today run so much cleaner, but not necessarily as a result of the fuel, but rather from improved combustion techniques. Fords PowerStroke is computer controlled, adjusting fuel amounts for altitude, temperature, RPM, etc. Cummins I believe, in addition to adding 2 more valves per cylinder, increased pump pressures to better atomize the fuel. The big trucks as well as the light trucks like Ford and Dodge, have decreased emissions demonstrably. I no longer see the soot pouring out of diesels like I once saw. Buses in this state are converting to LPG in the cities. In the end, I believe the biggest thing this new diesel will do is cost you more. Isn't that nice! Rat...

JimBin, I noticed in the KUBOTA brochure that it is the first diesel engine manufactuer to meet the CARB (California Air Resources Board) requirements. Where do the New Holland compacts stand on this, oh, thats right, they don't make their engines, never mind.

 

[Mryan]

Ouch.....That was a shot and a half...

 

[MChalkley]

Um, it wasn't you who poked fun at me, for making jokes at Jim's expense, was it? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Mark

 

[W5FL]

Since Kubota was made to meet the CARB (and I know what state wrote them) standards, does that mean they will run reliably on zero sulphur fuel?

 

[JimBinMI]

Not sure, but I bet they burn cleaner than your '74 International! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

JimBinMI

 

[_RaT_]

Jim, my International 454D with "Lightening Shift Transmission", part of the mammoth Case/International, New Holland family, makers of the #1 French Blue tractors etc. etc., owned by the parent company FIAT of Italy, burns so inefficiently, that by merely directing the exhaust at the weeds they give up and go to seed right then and there. It saves on the RoundUp, but is hard on the fuel bill. Rat...

 

[Billc]

Not to worry about the new fuel. I wait for Mark to tell us about a new Amsoil product to take care of our diesel woes.

Actually I did buy an Amsoil diesel fuel supplement a few months back.

And what's this? Fiat owns Long....err....I mean New Holland? And this is a good thing? My brother had a Fiat years ago. Thus the term "Fix It Again Tony".

 

[MChalkley]

Billc - Well, since you brought it up... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Did you get the HD fuel modifier in the metal screwtop can or the standard version in the clear bottle?

Mark

 

[Billc]

Mark, I know this isn't the lubricants (Amsoil) board, but since some of these fellas have not been to that board this is a real treat for them.

I got the metal can. Think it was an 1/8 per tank full.

 

[MChalkley]

Billc, I think that's the best of the two. I don't run it all the time, because I don't always have some on hand, but I have noticed better mileage and less smoke when I use it.

Mark

 

[gordon]

Delaware is starting a pilot project the the state owned equipment will burn whats called soydiesel its a 20%soy and 80%petroleum product. They say no changes need to be done to the engines. We will see what happens with this.
Sulfer content in diesl is directly related to the injector pump failure. Older models are more prone to have problems with the lower numbers the new pumps are more tolerant of the low sulfer fuel. I use a fuel conditioner in mine can't really say how much it helps but it does burn cleaner with it than when I run out and don't use it.
I'm not sure if anything was added to replace the sulfer I would venture to say they added something but I'm not sure on this I will look into it though and let you know
Gordon

 

[_RaT_]

Gordon, we currently have trace amounts of sulphur in our diesel in CA. Its been like that since about 95. I have yet to replace my injectors in my Navistar and after talking to a local diesel pump/injector rebuilder, (Marc Becker Diesel) he said nada, nothing more then the normal amounts coming in be it pumps or injectors. Rat... By the way, do you guys have a color to your diesel? Out here its almost clear with the exception of off road which is the typical red. Rat...

 

[gordon]

Fuel onroad is almost clear and offroad is red. What about in 1996 and 1997 when they first reduced the sulfer rates?
Seems the older units had more problems than the newer mabe its just me.
Gordon

 

[_RaT_]

Gordan, there were a lot of trucking companys reporting problems with the new reduced sulfur diesel fuel. The problem was in the fuel injector pump, not the injectors. It appears that older pumps had o ring failures. They (truckers) concluded that the new fuel was bad. My feeling is that the pumps were on their last legs, this new fuel gave them the push they needed to get rebuilt. I no longer hear anything bad about the reformulated diesel other then the cost. Rat...

 

[gordon]

Thats what my first post said injector pumps not the injectors---the older pumps relied on the sulfer as a lube thus the problem the newer pumps are manufactured to withstand no sulfer. They are using different seals to combat the loss of the sulfer.
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Rat, the low-sulfur diesel did cause o-ring failures in injection pumps. The fuel manufacturers put in something else to compensate and that's why they don't still have a problem with it.

Mark