Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[orezok]

You seem slightly triggered that coal still exists. Are you aware that china has around 2000 coal plants. So anything you currently use is contributing to climate change you so feverishly believe in. Are you aware how cheap electricity is in china? Are you aware the US prices have exceeded normal inflation for the past 7 years?

Climate change is not an existential threat. But this narrative has been used to politicize energy here in the states. Politicizing energy is a huge problem.

Solar panels could be placed on warehouses, manufracturing facilities, data centers and other buildings. Yet this doesn't happen. Were still trying to use farm ground. Where it effects a rural community with nothing to gain.

Wind turbines in the ocean sounds ridiculous b/c of the expense in maintaining. Wind turbines in general are just not a great option. If place properly so be it.

Other alternatives are equiping homeowners with home battery backup power to offset evening grid surges. a few states are getting involved with that program but there is a long way to go. Unfortuanly its a great idea but as i said politicized energy is a bad idea. Yes it does come from both sides

Sounds like you should move to china

 

[Phil Timmons]

What I never see is a discussion about how both of these devices capture energy from the sun that was headed to the ground, then transmit it to another location possibly quite far away. There it will be disbursed as heat, friction, and exchange from motion. The amount of energy transferred is quite large.
It should be apparent that this amounts to a transfer of entropy from one location to another, so the weather changes resulting from this can't be ignored or trivialized. Move your furnace to another building and tell me you're still comfortable. Buy overseas stuff and see if local industry stays in business. No input, no output, no accumulation...

Sort of a Boundary Equation thing? Boundary between Earth and Space, as well as Air and Water, and Earth and Air?

In numbers for "Energy," it seems like a large amount to We the Humans, but in terms of Daytime Energy Gain (from the Sun), followed by the Night Time Energy Dump (to Space), we are pretty tiny players. It is a balance thing. Nearly Out = In.

Even the insulating effects of CO2 and other "greenhouse gases" on this Air-to-Space boundary have taken 100+ years to accumulate to the point of notice. But if you look at Earth as a Millions to Billions years Science Experiment, anything noticeable with some 100 years is pretty fast.

As far as Solar PV, down on Earth's surface -- still only manages to collect around 20% of the Energy that hits it. Which is fine. More about money and costs than some Physics numbers. Consider that 100% would be a Black Hole sucking in all light energy.

(have to mention this because this generally starts moronic FUD about inefficiency of Solar PV from folks who sincerely think the 10% efficiency of Well-to-Wheels for Oil + ICE is the greatest thing ever. -- and yes, some other FUD claims Solar PV is so efficient it will suck up all the light in an area creating local "dimming). Mkay.

Anyway, most Energy that comes in to Earth from the Sun on a given day -- whether it hits rocks, or water (most of the Earth is covered with Water, yunno), or Solar PV -- gets dumped back into Space every night. (sort of having a visual of Earth being on a big Rotisserie Spit, slow turning and cooking under the Sun). We can do the math, if you like?

 

[hoozie]

What I never see is a discussion about how both of these devices capture energy from the sun that was headed to the ground, then transmit it to another location possibly quite far away. There it will be disbursed as heat, friction, and exchange from motion. The amount of energy transferred is quite large.
It should be apparent that this amounts to a transfer of entropy from one location to another, so the weather changes resulting from this can't be ignored or trivialized. Move your furnace to another building and tell me you're still comfortable. Buy overseas stuff and see if local industry stays in business. No input, no output, no accumulation...

If you're concerned about that, wait until you hear about the effects of releasing energy from the sun that was stored a few hundred million years ago.

"debunked"
wind turbine carbon footprint
I disagree with the effeminate man's assertion that oil is limited. However oil is created there is plenty of it and more is being discovered.

Yes, there is lots of oil available, and it is a very valuable molecule. At some point we'll figure out that in many use cases, it's too valuable to just *burn*.

And the hypocrisy of the climate religion preachers is hilarious. Until they live off grid away from the dangerous oil products they demonize they are full of hot air.

"People wore clothes made of cotton picked by slaves. But that did not make them hypocrites when they joined the abolition movement. It just meant that they were also part of the slave economy, and they knew it. That is why they acted to change the system, not just their clothes." - Harvard historian Naomi Oreskes

I do believe that Nicolai Tesla discovered free energy and this should be explored.

If you believe that, you probably think the earth is flat. Oh, wait...



As for windmills killing birds, that is an issue (though as shown above it is dwarfed by other sources). There was one very small study that indicated painting one blade black made a significant reduction in the bird kills. That is something that should be explored.

 

[Phil Timmons]

You seem slightly triggered that coal still exists. Are you aware that china has around 2000 coal plants.

Which are running less all the time. They are down to 50% run-time and dropping. Meanwhile, China is leading the World (and US) by FAR in both the manufacture and install of Renewable.

So anything you currently use is contributing to climate change you so feverishly believe in.

Probably not, but folks who like moral drama seem to do so from all sides.

Are you aware how cheap electricity is in china?

What numbers are you seeing?

Are you aware the US prices have exceeded normal inflation for the past 7 years?

Turns out the folks Selling US Natural Gas as a (quote) "Bridge Fuel," (both D & R) were not really looking out for US, after all, huh? I am shocked, I tells you.

Climate change is not an existential threat. But this narrative has been used to politicize energy here in the states. Politicizing energy is a huge problem.

So who started that?

Solar panels could be placed on warehouses, manufracturing facilities, data centers and other buildings.

so. so. In the US the National Electric Code has been hijacked by special interests to run up the cost of Roof Top, per se.

However, dual use Ground Mount -- such as -- Carports, Parking Lots, Shade Structure, Pergolas, Overhead Road/Bridge, Agri-Voltaic and even mobile Solar PV are pretty good, fast, and cheap things.

Yet this doesn't happen. Were still trying to use farm ground. Where it effects a rural community with nothing to gain.

Corporate Utilities. Not so much a We or US, thing. Part of the Central Plant model. But the problem is NOT Solar PV, per se. It is Capitalism and Corporations.

[insert moronic "R ye a Commie?!?!" comment here]

Wind turbines in the ocean sounds ridiculous b/c of the expense in maintaining. Wind turbines in general are just not a great option. If place properly so be it.

Could be easy, but most of the Smart folks have moved on to Solar PV. So Big Wind, Nukes, and Coal got stuck with the dummies. Happens in every industry. Same as US 3 Stooges Automobiles, now.

Ocean based Big Wind could be very easy floating sites that pull in and out for service, or location-re-location most anywhere -- well, 70% of the World.

Other alternatives are equiping homeowners with home battery backup power to offset evening grid surges. a few states are getting involved with that program but there is a long way to go. Unfortuanly its a great idea but as i said politicized energy is a bad idea. Yes it does come from both sides

Looking ahead more for Time-of-Use and Time-of-Production Alignment. So simple and cheap it severely undercuts Electrical Battery and Storage. Welcome to Today.

 

[edgarrian]

Sounds like you should move to china

I bring it up b/c its often used as an indicator on how bad the US is. Especially on LinkedIn. People push for solar and wind and are ok with shutting down coal even though prices increase at a pace far beyond 3%.

 

[edgarrian]

Which are running less all the time. They are down to 50% run-time and dropping. Meanwhile, China is leading the World (and US) by FAR in both the manufacture and install of Renewable.



Probably not, but folks who like moral drama seem to do so from all sides.



What numbers are you seeing?



Turns out the folks Selling US Natural Gas as a (quote) "Bridge Fuel," (both D & R) were not really looking out for US, after all, huh? I am shocked, I tells you.



So who started that?



so. so. In the US the National Electric Code has been hijacked by special interests to run up the cost of Roof Top, per se.

However, dual use Ground Mount -- such as -- Carports, Parking Lots, Shade Structure, Pergolas, Overhead Road/Bridge, Agri-Voltaic and even mobile Solar PV are pretty good, fast, and cheap things.




Corporate Utilities. Not so much a We or US, thing. Part of the Central Plant model. But the problem is NOT Solar PV, per se. It is Capitalism and Corporations.

[insert moronic "R ye a Commie?!?!" comment here]




Could be easy, but most of the Smart folks have moved on to Solar PV. So Big Wind, Nukes, and Coal got stuck with the dummies. Happens in every industry. Same as US 3 Stooges Automobiles, now.

Ocean based Big Wind could be very easy floating sites that pull in and out for service, or location-re-location most anywhere -- well, 70% of the World.



Looking ahead more for Time-of-Use and Time-of-Production Alignment. So simple and cheap it severely undercuts Electrical Battery and Storage. Welcome to Today.

Politicized energy never works. We have proved that in nearly every industry the government is heavily involved

 

[zzvyb6]

That argument is beyond ridiculous. Tornados tear up any source of power generation. In 2012 a tornado tore up a natural gas generating station in my state and caused a massive fireball.

Your comment amounts to Propa-Uganda.. It's been all over the news here. Even the videos. Even the pictures. Even the flat tires.

 

[zzvyb6]

China's construction of new coal-fired power plants reached a 10-year high in 2024, with 94.5 GW of new capacity initiated, accounting for 93% of new global coal construction, notes Carbon Brief. Despite rapid renewable expansion, China is increasing coal capacity for grid security, though this creates overcapacity and clashes with climate goals.
In 2025, more than 50 large coal units (1 GW or more) were commissioned in China, and 78 GW of new capacity was brought online. Please stop the 'influenser' cow manure. We even know why they needed the power: to irrigate Northern China for production of crops that they formerly had to buy overseas (especially from the U.S.). This backfired. The result was a weather change that created record floods in the South. I saw it. Unbelievable permanent damage to and in some cases erasure of entire towns.
"Though you think you may be intelligent, intelligence doesn't protect you from self-deception, it makes you better at it." Looks like the 3 Gorges Dam will pay for it. No longer has 50 years of life expectancy.

 

[sandman2234]

Solar invites battery storage, and battery storage creates jobs. I worked at one for a few months and just recently the plant caught fire. The local fire department couldn't put it out, so it burnt to the ground.
David from jax

 

[jyoutz]

Your comment amounts to Propa-Uganda.. It's been all over the news here. Even the videos. Even the pictures. Even the flat tires.

Now you’re not making sense. Yes of course tornados tear up towns, solar panels, windmills, and natural gas plants. About 20 years ago a tornado tore up the twin towers at the Cholla coal generating plant in Arizona. The point is that maybe there are reasons why you don’t like solar installations, but tornado damage is a lame argument because they can destroy just about anything. What are you talking about when you say propaganda?

 

[jyoutz]

I bring it up b/c its often used as an indicator on how bad the US is. Especially on LinkedIn. People push for solar and wind and are ok with shutting down coal even though prices increase at a pace far beyond 3%.

Except that currently coal is more expensive power than other sources. This isn’t 2000 anymore.

 

[gsganzer]

How hail resistant are the commercial solar panels at these solar farms? I've seen a bunch going up in TX and OK, both states get some significant hail. Back in September, I had a 70MPH hail event that lasted 30 minutes at my old place in N. TX., $76K in damage to our place.

 

[gsganzer]

Yes, there is lots of oil available, and it is a very valuable molecule. At some point we'll figure out that in many use cases, it's too valuable to just *burn*.

I think in future generations, this statement will prove to be very true.

 

[ponytug]

How hail resistant are the commercial solar panels at these solar farms? I've seen a bunch going up in TX and OK, both states get some significant hail. Back in September, I had a 70MPH hail event that lasted 30 minutes at my old place in N. TX., $76K in damage to our place.

Current ratings are no damage from 1" hail at 50mph on a flat panel, (perpendicular) and also tested to withstand winds of 140mph, but not every jurisdiction requires mounts that are rated to 140mph wind speeds, so that does vary. In my county the required wind speed rating for the mounts varies by actual site.

Solar is still the low cost form of energy at the moment.

All the best, Peter

 

[gsganzer]

Current ratings are no damage from 1" hail at 50mph on a flat panel, (perpendicular) and also tested to withstand winds of 140mph, but not every jurisdiction requires mounts that are rated to 140mph wind speeds, so that does vary. In my county the required wind speed rating for the mounts varies by actual site.

Solar is still the low cost form of energy at the moment.

All the best, Peter

Thanks Peter

 

[sd455dan]

How hail resistant are the commercial solar panels at these solar farms? I've seen a bunch going up in TX and OK, both states get some significant hail. Back in September, I had a 70MPH hail event that lasted 30 minutes at my old place in N. TX., $76K in damage to our place.

There are some that do better as well as just tougher types of panels.

I was really worried about hail,

https://www.pvel.com/wp-content/uploads/PVEL_White-Paper_Hail-Stress-Sequence-for-PV-Modules.pdf

so I bought panels that survived PVEL's manufactured Ice ball impact tests sequence unscathed.

It would make sense for some larger companies that build /own solar farms to weigh cost to replace and vet panel toughness and insurance cost before choosing their panels for a large facility. Then again maybe not.

 

[Phil Timmons]

How hail resistant are the commercial solar panels at these solar farms? I've seen a bunch going up in TX and OK, both states get some significant hail. Back in September, I had a 70MPH hail event that lasted 30 minutes at my old place in N. TX., $76K in damage to our place.

In practice, it just does not matter, because Solar PV has become so cheap, it is almost disposable. There has never been something this Cheap (and Fast and Easy) in the Generation Industry.

 

[lman]

In practice, it just does not matter, because Solar PV has become so cheap, it is almost disposable. There has never been something this Cheap (and Fast and Easy) in the Generation Industry.

I knew a guy that worked at a solar project on 20,000 acres of prime farmland not far from me. I was kidding him about how electric rates should go down with this free energy. He said the starting pay there was $45/hr and they were leasing the farm ground for $1,000/month. They were anticipating electric rate increases of 10%/year to pay for it.
That's not cheap in my book.

 

[edgarrian]

Likely true. However most folks have been rather favorable the Dams and Generation of the Bureau of Land Management and Corps of Engineers. Your mileage may vary. Mostly deep last century.

The more recent .gov boondoggles -- like Nukes, and now trying to do Zombie Coal -- Those have just been beyond stupid. They are chronically all too weak to hit the profitable and high-demand Peak, and they run surplus and unprofitable about half of the rest of the time.

In Texas, the crooked R(s) are trying to promote (more) Gas by trying to tie it to New Solar PV -- which is now in enormous demand despite Texas . gov types trying to block and stop new Solar PV.

BLM had a standoff with a rancher over grazing rights. That made news b/c militias came out with rifles and spotters. Just as they did. Surprisingly nothing happened but I wouldn't give BLM a pass.

If a congressman or any political figure is pushing certain agendas. You can dang near tie it to campaign contributions. The FDA is a disaster. Those guys just get hired by the corporations for the their contacts. There is a reason why we are the most unhealthy country in the world.

We have a problem when the president before trump talks about blowing up the nordstrom pipeline on TV. Then suddenly it blows up and nobody knows who did it? Astounding... What came after that. Higher prices for the american people since we then put our gas on the global market to then sell to europe.

In my eyes..... nothing is done for the people. ITs all about propping up corporations. They run the show. Certainly not us in our jacked up system.

 

[edgarrian]

I knew a guy that worked at a solar project on 20,000 acres of prime farmland not far from me. I was kidding him about how electric rates should go down with this free energy. He said the starting pay there was $45/hr and they were leasing the farm ground for $1,000/month. They were anticipating electric rate increases of 10%/year to pay for it.
That's not cheap in my book.

It never is. Project that size was probably tying to get a huge abatement as well. The county probably won't receive any full time employees. The mowing is done by union. You might have a few administrative people looking over the power plant while its running. The point is. There is nothing to gain for the county.

Just like Data Centers, wind turbines, solar farms. There is next to nothing as far as employment is concerned. Sure there is the construction phase. But thats it