Realistic $ for a reliable tractor?

[eolesen]

That treadle pedal is only on the HST models. The geared Kubota's have a notched lever shift for R-N-F.

 

[airbiscuit]

I call it the Disney Treadle because it is either

or

 

[Tractor_Jack]

The salesman did say that the yanmar sa425 had been sitting and it was just the battery. But I should note that then we went to hop on the sa325 instead and it wouldn’t shift between high and low ranges. He was able to pop the tractor up on the bucket and get whatever was stuck free and shift after a second of messing around. Then he tried to demo to how you could get off the seat and it would keep running but if you pressed a pedal forward or reverse it would stop the engine … it did not stop the engine and almost ran him over. Finally, he couldn’t find any pricing info cause something was wrong with his computer.

I’m sure he just had an off day so I’m trying to not let it color my perception of the tractors too much, especially since y’all knowledgeable folks are saying so many good things about the yanmars. But the whole thing really felt like a comedy of errors, and they are the only yanmar dealer anywhere close.

I will definitely ask why the new holland has been sitting so long I’m not sure.

I looked just at the smaller Massey GCs. I didn’t see any of the larger size on the lot, but maybe they were tucked in the back.

The treadle (or Disney haha) pedal felt super weird at first but after a few minutes I actually really liked it. Felt easier when going in reverse

 

[rScotty]

The salesman did say that the yanmar sa425 had been sitting and it was just the battery. But I should note that then we went to hop on the sa325 instead and it wouldn’t shift between high and low ranges. He was able to pop the tractor up on the bucket and get whatever was stuck free and shift after a second of messing around. Then he tried to demo to how you could get off the seat and it would keep running but if you pressed a pedal forward or reverse it would stop the engine … it did not stop the engine and almost ran him over. Finally, he couldn’t find any pricing info cause something was wrong with his computer.

I’m sure he just had an off day so I’m trying to not let it color my perception of the tractors too much, especially since y’all knowledgeable folks are saying so many good things about the yanmars. But the whole thing really felt like a comedy of errors, and they are the only yanmar dealer anywhere close.

I will definitely ask why the new holland has been sitting so long I’m not sure.

I looked just at the smaller Massey GCs. I didn’t see any of the larger size on the lot, but maybe they were tucked in the back.

The treadle (or Disney haha) pedal felt super weird at first but after a few minutes I actually really liked it. Felt easier when going in reverse

Thanks for posting! Your visit to the Yanmar shop made my morning.
Still laughing,
rScotty

 

[airbiscuit]

Here is my perception of brands

 

[MarkMac]

A few years ago I bought a used 1979 Ford subcompact, a really cute one for $6500. It was fun but really lacked the weight to do real ground-engaging chores. Then one day a front axle stub-shaft broke - completely separated - and I had to drive home on 3 wheels in reverse, dragging the bucket like a skid. Shortly thereafter I discovered my Ford was a Shibaura, and parts were near extinct. I scrounged the last rusty used front axle stub shaft known to man... on eBay for an inflated price... slapped it together and sold it for a small profit. It was a broken part away from being a piece of yard art.

Then I bought a new KIOTI CX2510 and adore it. It can do big boy jobs and still fit in tight spots, including the garage.

For 10 acres (especially with a grade) I'd recommend no less than 35 horsepower, especially with a hydrostatic drive.

I grew up on 10 acres in Arizona and we had a Ford 2600, gear drive, which was 35ish HP and just about right.

Little tractors get abused and misused. Repairs are NOT cheap... and while I'd keep an eye out for a cherry used one, realize that a new one won't cost significantly more and they really don't depreciate much.. not like a car anyway.

 

[CH4Ohio]

The salesman did say that the yanmar sa425 had been sitting and it was just the battery. But I should note that then we went to hop on the sa325 instead and it wouldn’t shift between high and low ranges. He was able to pop the tractor up on the bucket and get whatever was stuck free and shift after a second of messing around. Then he tried to demo to how you could get off the seat and it would keep running but if you pressed a pedal forward or reverse it would stop the engine … it did not stop the engine and almost ran him over. Finally, he couldn’t find any pricing info cause something was wrong with his computer.

I’m sure he just had an off day so I’m trying to not let it color my perception of the tractors too much, especially since y’all knowledgeable folks are saying so many good things about the yanmars. But the whole thing really felt like a comedy of errors, and they are the only yanmar dealer anywhere close.

I will definitely ask why the new holland has been sitting so long I’m not sure.

I looked just at the smaller Massey GCs. I didn’t see any of the larger size on the lot, but maybe they were tucked in the back.

The treadle (or Disney haha) pedal felt super weird at first but after a few minutes I actually really liked it. Felt easier when going in reverse

Just my opinion, but I think you should be looking at bigger tractors. Like Kubota B2601 or bigger, or small L model. Check them out. Get on Facebook Marketplace and search for tractors within 100 miles or so and see what you find. You'll find prices from private sellers much better than dealers. If you're buying newer tractors, it's not that hard to tell if it's been taken care of or not. There are lots of low hour tractors that get sold on Marketplace but you need to watch the listings and be ready to call if you see one you're interested in.

If you're doing your own maintenance, you don't really need a dealer, for the most part. Any tractor shop can pretty much work on any tractor for non-warranty work. All but major repairs you can do yourself.

Seems like you need a large B tractor in the 30 HP range or a small L (using Kubota models for sizing). Rough terrain, working in the woods, probably need a grapple later on, . . . Small tractor with tiny tires will disappoint you later on.

 

[eolesen]

Amen. I've never heard anyone say they had too much horsepower on a tractor...

 

[Shawn T. W.]

Small tractor with tiny tires will disappoint you later on.

Maybe so, but ... Now I have TWO tractors! (Lots of people's very happy with just a SCUT, as they are VERY handy!)

But to be honest, no way I ever plan to sell my little overgrown lawnmower, for most all things, I prefer it over my bigger tractor!

 

[Tractor_Jack]

Update:

Had the new holland workmaster 25s out at my property today and put about 0.5 hours on it. That little tractor felt absolutely gigantic on my narrow little trails. I definitely don’t think I could go bigger than subcompact until I make my trails at least a foot wider and the turns far less sharp.

I was worried about ground clearance but even on moderately bumpy terrain it felt tippy. I think it’s gonna be awhile before I feel comfortable traversing terrain where I need the ground clearance of something larger. I know fluid filled tires, a counter weight, and just experience will help with that feeling of tipping but the pucker factor was high today even on what I consider my flat gentle trails.

 

[anomad]

Update:

Had the new holland workmaster 25s out at my property today and put about 0.5 hours on it. That little tractor felt absolutely gigantic on my narrow little trails. I definitely don’t think I could go bigger than subcompact until I make my trails at least a foot wider and the turns far less sharp.

I was worried about ground clearance but even on moderately bumpy terrain it felt tippy. I think it’s gonna be awhile before I feel comfortable traversing terrain where I need the ground clearance of something larger. I know fluid filled tires, a counter weight, and just experience will help with that feeling of tipping but the pucker factor was high today even on what I consider my flat gentle trails.

Since you are relatively new to tractors feeling tippy and being tippy might be two different things. My Kubota B2601 will crab walk on a side hill while I am mowing way before it will start to lift one of the rear tires. I've gotten off and pushed on the ROPS as hard as I can without lifting a rear tire. In one area I mow I have been able to lift the rear tire and I stay off it with the tractor.

How was the demo unit set up while you were testing it out? Was there a heavy rear attachment on the 3 point, like a backhoe or tiller?

 

[RayIN]

All of the 60 HP and smaller Massey Ferguson's for the USA market are made by Iseki, I'm not sure if they all are made in Indonesia like mine, but I consider it a great tractor, although much smaller than I originally wanted, I'm keeping it now!

Both Massey Ferguson and Iseki (a Japanese brand tractor) are owned by AGCO they are sold in the USA as Massey Ferguson.

What model of Massey Ferguson did you look at? The Massey Ferguson 1E.25 is a MUCH Larger tractor than my GC, and a Compact Utility Tractor (CUT) and should have plenty of ground clearance, comparable to all other CUT's

Back about a month ago we had 1°F ... Even with a 1.5 amp BatteryMinder which has temperature compensation plugged in all night, and a extra long glow session, it wouldn't start, I put a propane torch on the oil pan and hooked up a 10 amp battery charger, in 10 minutes it was running! I just installed a block heater, going to test it this morning in a little bit ... https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/diesels-and-cold-weather.643934/ when I was at my dealer getting the block heater, the dealer told me both he and his mechanic which both have GC's like mine had trouble starting too ...

I too wouldn't discount the Yanmar tractors, unfortunately some salesmen don't know anything but what the literature says, and some don't even know that ... How cold was it out? Could also have been sitting for quite awhile (months?!) since it was last run, so battery wasn't cranking it well ...

The New Holland is made by LS ... I too would question why it has been on the lot for three years? Is it now a demo? A return? Just a model nobody wants?

Another thing you get with Kubota is a fairly well stocked parts department, and access to a warehouse that can get replacement parts quickly, I'd consider it a "Premium" brand, but you get what you pay for in parts availability and knowledgeable service, in a professional setting ... For a new tractor owner the "treadle pedal" (forward and reverse pedals) I'd think would just be natural to get use to, lots of people run them ...

My Massey Ferguson was the first diesel fired hydraulic powered tractor I owned, I got VERY use to the twin side by side pedal, and now prefer that style, my much more recently and little used Kubota has the treadle pedal, I can use it, but it feels awkward to me to not keep my heel on the floor, so ... I just lift the forward pedal by sticking my toe under it and lift, keeping my heel on the floor ... I make it work!

You can see the pedals with the arrows on them, the two side by side pedals above are the brakes ...

View attachment 5056796

Side view ...

View attachment 5056797

Your glow plugs must not be working. My MF 2003, 451 starts at 0 without assistance. It's a 52 HP tractor with 490hrs when I bought it for $14,000. It came with a MF FEL= fork attachment.

Tractor Jack; don't settle for the smallest or lowest price tractor IMO. When you buy a larger tractor than you think you need, it's a good thing.
If you have a tractor larger than needed it will be cheaper than wishing you have a larger tractor and looking to trade-up.
You don't need a tractor as large as mine but I'd not buy under32-35HP.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I actually had the glow plugs out just recently to adjust the valves, and they are working ... It has always started hard from day one ... My Massey Ferguson dealer and his small tractor mechanic both have these, and they both start hard in cold temperatures, just like most everyone that has one of these says ... This is a completely different engine than you have Ray.

My 4 cylinder 52 HP Kubota turns over maybe one revolution, and it's running!

 

[rScotty]

Update:

Had the new holland workmaster 25s out at my property today and put about 0.5 hours on it. That little tractor felt absolutely gigantic on my narrow little trails. I definitely don’t think I could go bigger than subcompact until I make my trails at least a foot wider and the turns far less sharp.

I was worried about ground clearance but even on moderately bumpy terrain it felt tippy. I think it’s gonna be awhile before I feel comfortable traversing terrain where I need the ground clearance of something larger. I know fluid filled tires, a counter weight, and just experience will help with that feeling of tipping but the pucker factor was high today even on what I consider my flat gentle trails.

Hello Jack, glad you got the chance to try one out.

Yes, tractor rollovers are very real, and all to easy to do. Do a search on Google or TBN or any tractor site. I lost a good friend this year and he was experienced by any standard.

If you feel like you are in danger then you probably are. Once the pucker factor sets in, all it takes to send you over is an unseen bump or drop of just a few inches.

Most compact tractors were designed for level ground, although there are a few that handle side hills better than the common compacts. If you can't stay off of hills, you may want to look at those.

On your typical compact 4wd tractor, you should stick to going straight up or down hills. Do NOT try to traverse a side hill until you have a lot of experience. And never go downhill forwards unless you are in 4wd. Back down instead.

rScotty

 

[airbiscuit]

... Once the pucker factor sets in, all it takes to send you over is an unseen bump or drop of just a few inches.

rScotty

True that.

 

[Shawn T. W.]

I doubt the rentals would have wheel spacers, but once the size is figured out, they can be added, same with fluid or steel wheel weights, which will increase side to side stability ...

I added 3" spacers to my SCUT ...

And added windshield washer fluid to the tires ...

Also added 70 Lb steel wheel weights!

Each made a profound difference in adding stability! And traction!

Even though my seat of the pants tip-o- meter was going off, once I got off, I gave it a nudge, then a shove ... It didn't budge, it was still stable!

What would it take to widen the trails? Is it just brush/trees, or would dirt need to be added or subtracted?

These little SCUTS are extremely nimble little tractors!

 

[bearthebruce]

Yes, tractor rollovers are very real, and all to easy to do. Do a search on Google or TBN or any tractor site. I lost a good friend this year and he was experienced by any standard.

If you feel like you are in danger then you probably are. Once the pucker factor sets in, all it takes to send you over is an unseen bump or drop of just a few inches.

We operate on nothing but hills..... The Massey is a compact. The LS a sub compact...

Blue as I call the sub compact has a desire to kill me.... His narrow stance and the weight of the back hoe really make him tippy. I have rolled that tractor. I got it hung up on stump on one of the trails we are developing. Being the brainless operator and very new on that brand new tractor, I failed to think through the best way to get off the stump. I was rocking back and forth. Next thing you know, I broke free - got high on one corner - and bloop, over he went.

The right way to get off you ask? USE THE BACK HOE and gently move it off... DUH! Hind sight - provided you are still around - is always a good teacher.

I had a second incident of getting Blue hung up. No idiot with that one. Just reached around and operated the hoe... pushing the tractor off.

The Massey? Wider stance and taller... and I have 800 hours in her seat... I probably am becoming over-confident on her...

Hills.... up to 22-23 degrees... pretty steep. One needs to keep their head about them...

If you feel you are in danger, you are...

 

[rScotty]

I added 3" spacers to my SCUT ...

And added windshield washer fluid to the tires ...

Also added 70 Lb steel wheel weights!

Each made a profound difference in adding stability! And traction!

View attachment 5122611

Even though my seat of the pants tip-o- meter was going off, once I got off, I gave it a nudge, then a shove ... It didn't budge, it was still stable!

What would it take to widen the trails? Is it just brush/trees, or would dirt need to be added or subtracted?

These little SCUTS are extremely nimble little tractors!

Thanks for all the good photos. I agree. ...Those are all excellent ways to increase sidehill stability. Simple, inexpensive, and effective.

I'm not so sure that getting off the tractor and pushing on it itells us much. That is static stability & done without all the weight of the operator perched up odd on the seat. Most rollovers happen with the operator seated when the moving tractor hits a slight bump or dip - a more dynamic situation.

Tractors are just not very trustworthy on hills. What happens in the picture below if the rollbar snags that tree limb just ahead?

Still, the changes you've made are all good. And thanks.
That photo of you mowing on a slight slope is worth repeating.
rScotty

 

[Shawn T. W.]

That photo of you mowing on a slight slope is worth repeating.
rScotty

The thing was I stopped ... I knew the area quite good, and it was relatively smooth in that spot , and yes my 6'1" 190ish pounds was no longer in the seat ... I did however push/shove as hard as I could on the ROPS above where the long loud stick is mounted!

Here are the other pictures that go with it ... Notice the front tires turned sharply uphill?
I had forgotten to add front ballast in the bucket, as the brush hog is a tad big and heavy for this little tractor, and the steering is a bit compromised ... I was trying to pull back up the hill to not only miss the tree branches, but the creek bank was going to get steeper ...

So ... I went down into the creek and fetched some rocks ... ! But not quite enough, notice front tires had spun/scuffed along?

So ... More rocks! That brush hog is 8' hanging off the Quick Hitch, and weighs 518.4 Lbs! Then it pulled its self up the bank!

Since the rear tires didn't spin, and my "problem" was "steering" ... I'm sure I could have just backed up, but what fun is that? Besides I needed to put some ballast in the front anyways!

If you look closely at the other picture in the other post, you will see that I also had left on my extra 275 Lbs of weight lifting plates on my BH frame from a different project, they are so close the the axle, that the provide mostly just weight for traction ...

Here is a different angle of them ...

The following day, I proved that I didn't learn my lesson, when mowing the other side of the creek, I got in too close, trying to cut more grass!

The creekside was soft, and even with rocks in the bucket, I couldn't pull it back up, I did try backing up, but just made it worse! The left side has sunk up to the wheel weights! (And the brush hog was digging into the dirt!)

I had to do the walk of shame up to the barn and get my pickup truck, and even then it was a struggle to get it up out of there in 4X4 Low range on the pickup!

My point is things can change quickly, the faster you're going the quicker it can get worse!

 

[sd455dan]

Just my opinion, but I think you should be looking at bigger tractors. Like Kubota B2601 or bigger, or small L model. Check them out. Get on Facebook Marketplace and search for tractors within 100 miles or so and see what you find. You'll find prices from private sellers much better than dealers. If you're buying newer tractors, it's not that hard to tell if it's been taken care of or not. There are lots of low hour tractors that get sold on Marketplace but you need to watch the listings and be ready to call if you see one you're interested in.

If you're doing your own maintenance, you don't really need a dealer, for the most part. Any tractor shop can pretty much work on any tractor for non-warranty work. All but major repairs you can do yourself.

Seems like you need a large B tractor in the 30 HP range or a small L (using Kubota models for sizing). Rough terrain, working in the woods, probably need a grapple later on, . . . Small tractor with tiny tires will disappoint you later on.

Totally agree, The subcompacts with small front tires would have me ticked off in no time, and the rough ride as well