equipment emissions (EPA) ended

[ultrarunner]

True or False: Did Ford really say “Any color the customer wants, as long as it’s black”?​

Posted by Jil McIntosh on Nov 3rd 2021

Possibly the best-known automotive quote of all time is, “Any color the customer wants, as long as it’s black.” It was Henry Ford, describing his Model T. But did he actually say it? The evidence may suggest otherwise.
Ford founded his company in 1903 and made a number of different cars before introducing the Model T on October 8, 1908. His other vehicles were fancier, and he wanted a simple, inexpensive car most people could own.

Initially, the Model T came only in red, gray, or green. In 1910, you could only get dark green, and in 1911, all cars were blue. Late in 1912, black was added as an available color.

The black-only policy began in 1914, and primarily because it was also the year Ford fired up his new moving assembly line. The new line reduced the time to build each car from more than 12 hours, to just 90 minutes. Black paint was the cheapest, and using a single shade meant the line didn’t have to stop while workers cleaned the equipment to change the paint colors. Black remained the sole choice until 1926, when some models were offered in green, maroon, or gray, all with black fenders
So what’s up with that famous phrase? Thanks to his car’s success, Ford soon became as big a celebrity as any sports or silent-movie star, and the press faithfully printed pretty much anything that came out of his mouth. But it seems no historian has ever found a verified newspaper story that recorded the catchy phrase.
Instead, it appears in Henry Ford’s co-written autobiography, “My Life and Work,” published in 1922. He describes a meeting in 1909 with his company’s salespeople, who wanted him to add even more models. Instead, he announced he would build only one, “and I remarked: ‘Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black.’”

If Ford did indeed say that to his staff, it was another five years before he actually made it happen. The book came out at the height of the car’s popularity, and when it was only in black. Ford was often known to rewrite history to suit him. It’s not hard to imagine him or his writer inventing the phrase long after the date he claimed he said it, just to liven up a good story.
Here are some other interesting tidbits about the Model T:
- Henry Ford was so sure of the car’s success, he discontinued every other model to concentrate on it. Until it was retired in 1927, after selling 15 million copies, no Ford factory anywhere in the world made anything other than the Model T car or Model TT truck.

- Almost all American cars, including Ford’s earlier models, had their steering wheels on the right. Ford put the Model T’s on the left. Virtually all automakers soon moved theirs to that side as well.
- The Model T’s name holds no special significance. As did many automakers, Ford named his cars alphabetically. The Model T simply followed the Model S

 

[DarkBlack]

Jeeze!

Today, I saw a sale on Coffee $11.99/26oz or $7.38/lb. I track my coffee purchases and found that three years ago, I paid $3.12/lb for the same brand (both 'on sale' at the time). That works out to a 237% price hike.

Uhhh.. NO.
That would be a 137% price hike, not 237%

 

[charlessenf]

I have a real distrust of our public servants (rulers?).

And, that, my fellow American, is likely the objective of the present administration. Everybody Donald doesn't like's a crook. The election was tainted by - was it some Latin American dictator, Rudy? - He 'won in a landslide' without winning the popular vote. He refused to concede regardless the evidence before us.

As to your distrust of Public Servants, how many do you personally know? My dad worked for the Farmer's Home Administration and USDA and his job was to listen to Farmers; to discover what they needed to be productive. I remember a meeting he had with a poultry farmer and discussions I overheard between him and a farmer from New Jersey about the bean crops.

Federal employees don't work for political parties (Hatch Act), they work for the agencies that the politicians you elected created to (in the instant case) support American Agriculture (for the benefit, ideally, of all of us).
His job was to gather facts. Because, you (or the US Govt) can't manage what you don't measure

The politicians you elected, however, have an obvious allegiance to those who are best able to help them win their next election - as represented by the Big Spenders (lobbyists, they calls 'em) milling about, offering 'advice and counsel' in fancy eateries, on private jets and even on virgin islands.

Overturn Citizens United - corporations were NOT people under the 14th Amendment nor under any reasonable interpretation of the credo "Of the people; by the people; for the people."

I'm a people, a person. My goods friends and I survived the Vietnam era while some fifty thousand others took their last breath over there and three or four ties and many didn't come home in one piece. Name me one corporation that died in Nam! Nah, they all made out like effing bandits with presidential immunity.

Letting corporations influence our elections with direct payments to politicians, indirect payments through PACS; SuperPACS; and any number of scams and lobbying efforts is the virus among us that has our eleite member Chim from PA confusing Public Servants with 'rulers' and blaming Public Servants for his lack of trust in them.

It is this sort of 'feeling' the would be despot thrives upon. OFten promising a 'strong man' approach to 'fixing things' instead of that terribly messy democratic approach devised some two and one-half centuries ago buy the realtively well-off men of property (real, personal and biolgical) who first subscribed to the proposition that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

[charlessenf]

1. "...POTUS has clear Constitutional authority over executive agencies. ... "
2. "Plan accordingly, knowing that we just can't have nice things... not anymore."

1. Not sure the finding was an executive decision in the first place. So far, the courts have disagreed with your pro se conclusion on several occasions.
2. Huh? We've got the Sun in the mornin' and the moon at night.

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

I wonder how many people here even have any idea how many issues the EGR, SCR, and DeF systems have caused and cost? EGR coolers are notorious for developing coolant leaks. With a cooler running roughly $2500 and labor probably between a $1-2k depending on the application that's only one issue. Almost every issue we had with newer engines was emissions related. It didn't matter what flavor they were. It's literally cost billions and everyone pays for it in the end.

In most instances the fuel consumption was worse on the smog engines. So in essence how can something that's burning more fuel truly put out fewer pollutants? I think in the end it is like the gas engines with the air pumps in the late 70's. You are diluting the output with additives to make it seem like something has been accomplished.

The farmer I help is fighting it on his semi right now. It's not even got DeF but it's been giving us fits and is back in the shop for a 3rd time because of ReGen problems, derating, and not running right. He's guessing another $4000 bill and who knows if it will be fixed? He would gladly strip the crap off if it will make it run right.

The way I am interpreting the announcement and the comments in the video I saw from the Agco (Fendt) spokesman they can easily get back to just a simple unburdened engine. All the newer equipment is pretty much smoke free. A puff on start up and pretty clear exhaust while working. Except for the pickups rolling coal no one wants to see a black cloud following them when diesel is at least here in the mid $3 range with taxes. Off road diesel should be less.

I stated all this and didn't make it political at all.

 

[not2old]

Now it just beeps warnings at you that the hood is up, all day long.

I've seen so many idiots driving around with their hood latch popped, that I think that's one feature most should't disable. I had to stop twice last summer to get out and close the hood of a random car stopped behind me at a stop light.

One of those people was a single woman, and I think I really frightened the hell out of her, before she realized what I was doing. Might get myself run over or shot, one of these days.

Reminds me of the time I was stuck in stop and go traffic and gestured to the lady next to me to above her car to no avail. At the next light, when I was getting out of my car, she quickly rolled up her windows and locked her doors until I waved her purse in the window.

 

[wttuckerjr]

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

The auto-stop/start feature was put on vehicles not for fuel savings cost for the consumer. It was added to vehicles to help the manufacturers meet government mandated CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards. Standards are not based on individual cars but on the fuel economy of a manufacturer's entire fleet. The overall impact on the environment may well be negative due to the reasons you listed as well as the fact that many vehicles with this feature also have added a second battery which means additional manufacturing costs and additional waste or recycling needs.

 

[Hoho223]

Great…I can’t wait to be behind a car at a stoplight and start breathing its exhaust. Can’t wait for the return of smog either

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Great…I can’t wait to be behind a car at a stoplight and start breathing its exhaust. Can’t wait for the return of smog either

Would there be a noticeable increase in smog if the relatively few vehicles with stop/start would defeat or no longer have it?

 

[charlessenf]

" Almost every issue we had with newer engines was emissions related.

" It didn't matter what flavor they were. It's literally cost billions and everyone pays for it in the end.

"... fuel consumption was worse on the smog engines...."

"is back in the shop for a 3rd time because of ReGen problems, derating, and not running right.

All the newer equipment is pretty much smoke free. A puff on start up and pretty clear exhaust while working.

"I stated all this "

You sure did that.

However, saying something doesn't make it so, now does it? Neither does "stating" something.

You start off using the royal 'we' without identifying just who 'we' was (or is).

Likewise you offer no links to back up any of your assertions (statements) ranging from the Economic ("literally costing Billions"), through the Mechanical and Engineering to Physics ("pretty clear exhaust while working" - as if the clarity or transparency of a gas correlates to its impact upon one's health: e.g. "Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas, making it impossible to detect with human senses."

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - you included. But stray too far from verifiable factual information and yours may appear to have been extracted from a place where the sun didn't shine.

 

[Craigercj]

Didn't read the whole thread, sorry if repeating, but this doesn't matter. We're perpetually stuck with california standards cause they're not going to make/import two different emissions standards.

 

[Quaffer]

If I were an OPE manufacturer, I would continue building all the same equipment with all the same emissions crap, and look long and hard whether it makes financial sense to even offer an alternative "emissions-free" version. There's just no way those emissions requirements aren't coming back with the next democratic administration, and there are real costs in changeover and in splitting a product line to offer two variants. Guessing how long you have to run in the current regime, before all this crap reverses again, is a gamble.

A really good example of how the little guy gets caught in the increasingly volatile back and forth.

 

[WinterDeere]

The auto-stop/start feature was put on vehicles not for fuel savings cost for the consumer. It was added to vehicles to help the manufacturers meet government mandated CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards. Standards are not based on individual cars but on the fuel economy of a manufacturer's entire fleet.

I'm not sure I even understand the point of this apparent rebuttal to my post. What is any defined "fleet", but a collection of individual vehicles? Put otherwise, how would the addition of equipment to individual vehicles improve the fuel economy of the fleet, without improving the average fuel economy of the individual vehicles carrying that equipment?

 

[sd455dan]

Found an easy way to disable auto-s/s on my new jeep. Just pull a wire on a pop-up button under the hood. If it thinks the hood is raised, it disables the defect (feature?). No more stalling engine when you stop.

Motorcycles too. My Kawasaki liter street bike shut the fuel injection off on decel, then, as soon as you come off idle the bike jerks, it was almost dangerous riding two up with the wife on the back and going through switchbacks up mountain roads at slow speed on the turns.

I got so tired of it pulled the ecu sent off to have ecu flashed over this BS to get rid of it.

If I had a newer diesel with the EGR cooling it would be gone fast enough to make the EPA's head spin.

Have to wonder how many millions of gallons of diesel have been wasted having excess fuel injected to solely superheat a DPF.
How has that saved the environment. Way More fuel burned to achieve less efficiency.

How many buyers of CP4 equipped diesels have had to pay out over $10K to completely replace the injection system after it internally grenades and sends shrapnel through the system, the unlucky ones, the pump seizes and breaks the drive teeth off of the pump cam or crankshaft gears.

I had 2 CVCC Accords and they were amazing. Also had a 1993 Civic VX that got an honest 60 mpg highway. This pinnacle of efficiency was not appreciated by the EPA and removed from the American market. About the same time that tax breaks were offered for gas guzzling luxury SUVs.

I rebuilt a few for customers as well ( 82 civic - owner did not spend the money for a timing belt (interference engine, jumped time and bent all the valves 0 compression on all four cylinders).

We had 6 over the years, 76 Civic wagon, 77 and 78 Accord LX's, 1980 Prelude, 80 Accord LX and 87 Civic DX all Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion engines. The early ones had some failures of the pre chamber auxiliary intake valve bore O ring and they would smoke like crazy when re started after getting up to temp and then shut down for a while and restarted. The oil would run right by failed O rings lowest point front side of the head, and then through the prechamber into the main head chamber. Less than 20 dollars to fix but seeing one burn that much oil would make some think the engine needed replacement. I liked my Hondas far better than my VW Rabbits.

 

[MROlson86]

I read a lot of posts that think discontinuing clean air regulations is what they want, back to the good old days. Americans would not tolerate smog again or lead pollution. Fuel economy has increased dramatically but those regulations that increase it are now out of favor

 

[RammerJammer]

... and we've come full circle, as I posted the same as a question, a few pages back.

I honestly don't know if auto-stop/start is a net gain or net loss, once you figure in starter wear and all factors surrounding that. But I sure would like to see some actual data on that, not just best-guesses.

Saw a guy on TV who said the battery in his wife's car had to be replaced. Somehow, according to him, the start/stop system had its own battery tucked away in a difficult to access spot. And, the failure of one of those two batteries caused the other to fail. No idea if his report was accurate.

However, given the cost of an extra battery (and, I assume, the environmental impact of battery manufacturing) along with the wiring/mounting of same and the wear/tear on the engine/starter, how in the world could that start/stop garbage ever have been considered to be a net positive?

 

[sd455dan]

Saw a guy on TV who said the battery in his wife's car had to be replaced. Somehow, according to him, the start/stop system had its own battery tucked away in a difficult to access spot. And, the failure of one of those two batteries caused the other to fail. No idea if his report was accurate.

However, given the cost of an extra battery (and, I assume, the environmental impact of battery manufacturing) along with the wiring/mounting of same and the wear/tear on the engine/starter, how in the world could that start/stop garbage ever have been considered to be a net positive?

Posted in another thread BMW just recalled 90000 in US because the starters are wearing out and causing some fires.

Stop start is used as BMW's " Efficient Dynamics Suite- Intelligent Automatic Start-Stop function".

It resets to On after every restart.

 

[Paystar]

Motorcycles too. My Kawasaki liter street bike shut the fuel injection off on decel, then, as soon as you come off idle the bike jerks, it was almost dangerous riding two up with the wife on the back and going through switchbacks up mountain roads at slow speed on the turns.

I got so tired of it pulled the ecu sent off to have ecu flashed over this BS to get rid of it.

If I had a newer diesel with the EGR cooling it would be gone fast enough to make the EPA's head spin.

Have to wonder how many millions of gallons of diesel have been wasted having excess fuel injected to solely superheat a DPF.
How has that saved the environment. Way More fuel burned to achieve less efficiency.

I'm retired from trucking now, but my 2013 Detroit Diesel DD15 would burn 5 gallons of fuel with each regen and it had to regen every 8 hours. And that's shown right off the ECM. My 2020 was slightly better with less frequent regens.

Another example.....my Cat 950M wheel loader literally gasses you out of the cab when it does a regen while working. Literally smells like it's burning kerosene so much raw fuel comes out of exhaust.
Not to mention all the DEF jugs and totes that go in the garbage. Yep....saving the environment, LOL

 

[ultrarunner]

I read a lot of posts that think discontinuing clean air regulations is what they want, back to the good old days. Americans would not tolerate smog again or lead pollution. Fuel economy has increased dramatically but those regulations that increase it are now out of favor

I think expecting both… efficiency and reliability isn’t unreasonable with the cost of todays vehicles.

 

[Quaffer]

… efficiency and reliability isn’t unreasonable with the cost of todays vehicles.

And then some freshly minted kid who just received his MBA presents a spreadsheet on how to improve the car company's profits. Designed obsolescence and dealer-only maintenance items.