equipment emissions (EPA) ended

[IXLR8]

I know I am the minority, but I don't mind the S/S feature in my X5. It happens so smoothly that I don't really notice it. In the time it takes me to move my foot from the brake to the go pedal, the engine is running and off we go, no fuss no muss. Having said that, I have driven several other BMW's and I can understand why folks HATE the S/S feature. It was highly 'clunky' and not smooth at all. Maybe I just got lucky, BMW's are the only vehicles I have driven with the S/S feature.

 

[Runner]

According to this guy, at least on Fords, you just have to pull one wire off the negative battery terminal to disable start/stop.

 

[greenie]

This was an easy fix for my '19 Equinox Amazon.com it's been installed for 3 years and not a single issue. Remote start - everything works as it should and no start/stop. $12... This plugs into the existing wiring near the hood latch.
Fully agree that emissions control has gone way overboard from what was in place in the late 1980's. Free market industry competition has extended the mileage, life, and function of all manners of vehicles and equipment. At some point these fights for environmental purity need to be considered solved; humanity has a place in nature.

 

[JimR]

Does anyone know what this change affects? I have a tractor down due to emission equipment failure and will soon need to decide on repair to factory spec or just delete the emissions system.

If I was paying for the repairs it would get deleted. There are no smog police.

 

[nisaacs]

 

[mrmikey]

How much you wanna bet the prices of equipment that the emissions crap is no longer required their prices will not drop.

 

[WinterDeere]

How much you wanna bet the prices of equipment that the emissions crap is no longer required their prices will not drop.

If I were an OPE manufacturer, I would continue building all the same equipment with all the same emissions crap, and look long and hard whether it makes financial sense to even offer an alternative "emissions-free" version. There's just no way those emissions requirements aren't coming back with the next democratic administration, and there are real costs in changeover and in splitting a product line to offer two variants. Guessing how long you have to run in the current regime, before all this crap reverses again, is a gamble.

What's the cost to re-engineer all that equipment to delete emissions hardware? What will be the cost to bring it all back in 2 years? Will you be able to sell equipment built during the transition back, or will you be left with scrap stock on the tail end of this?

As much as I'm not a fan of emissions hardware, I'm even less a fan of arbitrary and unilateral decisions that impact my business planning, with little or no warning.

 

[JRH02]

If I were an OPE manufacturer, I would continue building all the same equipment with all the same emissions crap, and look long and hard whether it makes financial sense to even offer an alternative "emissions-free" version. There's just no way those emissions requirements aren't coming back with the next democratic administration, and there are real costs in changeover and in splitting a product line to offer two variants. Guessing how long you have to run in the current regime, before all this crap reverses again, is a gamble.

What's the cost to re-engineer all that equipment to delete emissions hardware? What will be the cost to bring it all back in 2 years? Will you be able to sell equipment built during the transition back, or will you be left with scrap stock on the tail end of this?

As much as I'm not a fan of emissions hardware, I'm even less a fan of arbitrary and unilateral decisions that impact my business planning, with little or no warning.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Maybe you can even delete the stuff but you'll still void the warranty. And what about the state and city laws that require testing, if applicable?

 

[tulenutn2o]

^^^ THIS ^^^

Maybe you can even delete the stuff but you'll still void the warranty. And what about the state and city laws that require testing, if applicable?

Move.

 

[Runner]

If I were an OPE manufacturer, I would continue building all the same equipment with all the same emissions crap, and look long and hard whether it makes financial sense to even offer an alternative "emissions-free" version. There's just no way those emissions requirements aren't coming back with the next democratic administration, and there are real costs in changeover and in splitting a product line to offer two variants. Guessing how long you have to run in the current regime, before all this crap reverses again, is a gamble.

What's the cost to re-engineer all that equipment to delete emissions hardware? What will be the cost to bring it all back in 2 years? Will you be able to sell equipment built during the transition back, or will you be left with scrap stock on the tail end of this?

As much as I'm not a fan of emissions hardware, I'm even less a fan of arbitrary and unilateral decisions that impact my business planning, with little or no warning.

I feel you are 100% correct on this, but please, don't ruin my fantasy of someday being able to buy a new tractor without emissions controls. I don't really need or want one right now, but just the thought of being able to do it if I want to gives me tingles...

 

[AntiqueIron]

Remember when Honda met all emission requirements and did so without a Catalytic Converter with their CVCC?

In engineering it is often possible to make large gains for modest cost… the problem is the cost and durability often suffer chasing the last few percentage points.

California is still testing 1976 and newer vehicles… but it’s getting very hard to find a local shop that is licensed to do the older vehicle testing.

The Hospital standby generators are circa 1995 and the Air District plans to force retirement and is also focused on steam boilers of the same vintage.

I think Deere and Scania both are building 12l+ engines that meet emissions without DEF.

Maybe I’m just lucky but my experience has been that as long as the operator performs regens as needed DPFs tend to last ok.

I see a lot more failures due to abuse and neglect than anything.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

I agree with a few other people that the pre-2009 emissions standards are ok.

 

[rontaki]

If I were an OPE manufacturer, I would continue building all the same equipment with all the same emissions crap, and look long and hard whether it makes financial sense to even offer an alternative "emissions-free" version. There's just no way those emissions requirements aren't coming back with the next democratic administration, and there are real costs in changeover and in splitting a product line to offer two variants. Guessing how long you have to run in the current regime, before all this crap reverses again, is a gamble.

What's the cost to re-engineer all that equipment to delete emissions hardware? What will be the cost to bring it all back in 2 years? Will you be able to sell equipment built during the transition back, or will you be left with scrap stock on the tail end of this?

As much as I'm not a fan of emissions hardware, I'm even less a fan of arbitrary and unilateral decisions that impact my business planning, with little or no warning.

The smart move would be to design the equipment so the emissions junk is a modular add-on. When mandated, sell with it on, and the computer requires it to be there if that is part of the requirement. Otherwise sell without.

 

[duffer]

According to this guy, at least on Fords, you just have to pull one wire off the negative battery terminal to disable start/stop.

It also depends on what trim and accessory pkg you have. The higher the trim and accessory pkg, the more stuff depends on that circuit being completed. On my F-150 there is a panel under the dash by your left foot with 3 connectors on it. The bottom one controls the S/S. But it also controls the trailer lights if you have a tow pkg. I have to plug mine in every time I hook up a trailer.

They also make a "dummy" connector for the trailer light connector on your rear bumper. When plugged in, it disables the S/S system.

 

[duffer]

I know I am the minority, but I don't mind the S/S feature in my X5. It happens so smoothly that I don't really notice it. In the time it takes me to move my foot from the brake to the go pedal, the engine is running and off we go, no fuss no muss. Having said that, I have driven several other BMW's and I can understand why folks HATE the S/S feature. It was highly 'clunky' and not smooth at all. Maybe I just got lucky, BMW's are the only vehicles I have driven with the S/S feature.

You may not mind it now, but let's see how much you notice the cost of a new starter long before you should need one. On an X5, I bet it's $500-$1000 installed.

 

[Hay Dude]

You may not mind it now, but let's see how much you notice the cost of a new starter long before you should need one. On an X5, I bet it's $500-$1000 installed.

The part alone price range is $600-$825.
I am a very happy 2020 X-5 4L owner. Only 1 significant repair in 100K miles covered by warranty. Still runs & looks excellent.

 

[WinterDeere]

The smart move would be to design the equipment so the emissions junk is a modular add-on. When mandated, sell with it on, and the computer requires it to be there if that is part of the requirement. Otherwise sell without.

If anyone could've predicted this rollback in regulation, then yes, I'd agree you're correct... that'd have been a smart move. But honestly, who had that crystal ball foresight?

Modularizing anything such as emissions controls, is nearly always going to be more expensive than integrated solutions. When Joe Blow homeowner is standing in the aisle at Ace or Lowes, and looking at Stihl vs. Husqvarna, he doesn't care if one is modularized and the other is integrated, he's just looking at performance vs. price. That's the reality these manufacturers were facing for several years, until 5 minutes ago.

Again, the problem isn't so much "emissions" vs. "no emissions", as it is trying to do business and product planning in an environment where the rules change instantaneously, at the whim of one or a few individuals. All of your careful product development plans might as well be damned!

 

[RayIN]

Oh, geez! That is one option that would never sell, on certain vehicles. I can't imagine many Hellcat buyers opting for the "clean air package".

I'm all for anything that can be done to reduce emissions, without impacting driver experience. Cylinder de-activation is a good one, but should've been set up so you can enable/disable it permanently, not just on each re-start.

And I would like to see actual hard data that this stupid and universally-hated auto-stop/start feature acually does anything to help the environment. That includes the emissions wasted on making and installing replacement starters, due to all of the extra wear and tear on stopping and starting your engine at every stoplight. It's hard to believe that feature is actually a net-positive, in any way.

Cylinder deactivation is for me permanent. I bought a Range Technology device that plugs into the diagnostic port and forces the ECM to stay in V8 mode.
If I must take my Silverado to the dealer for anything, when I get it back the Ranger is laying in the console.
Good gravy! I paid $59 for mine in 2013, today it's $240.
400% rise in price in 13 yrs. Who said inflation is dead?

 

[Hay Dude]

If anyone could've predicted this rollback in regulation, then yes, I'd agree you're correct... that'd have been a smart move. But honestly, who had that crystal ball foresight?

Modularizing anything such as emissions controls, is nearly always going to be more expensive than integrated solutions. When Joe Blow homeowner is standing in the aisle at Ace or Lowes, and looking at Stihl vs. Husqvarna, he doesn't care if one is modularized and the other is integrated, he's just looking at performance vs. price. That's the reality these manufacturers were facing for several years, until 5 minutes ago.

Again, the problem isn't so much "emissions" vs. "no emissions", as it is trying to do business and product planning in an environment where the rules change instantaneously, at the whim of one or a few individuals. All of your careful product development plans might as well be damned!

It has already happened. Dealer told me this last week.
My 20 Ram DEF system is available as parts. Tank, pump, heater, lines and injector, and probably some other parts. New Ram diesel already has “modularized” DEF system into one giant part assembly.

I don’t think it would take too much assembly line time to install a DPF in place of a removable section exhaust pipe or muffler, bolt-up the DEF tank to frame, plug into wiring harness and put injector into a boss welded into DPF.
The PCM would need programming, but those PCM’s would be a pre-programmed part of a package for the “environmentalist option”.

 

[WinterDeere]

.

It has already happened. Dealer told me this last week.
My 20 Ram DEF system is available as parts. Tank, pump, heater, lines and injector, and probably some other parts. New Ram diesel already has “modularized” DEF system into one giant part assembly.

I don’t think it would take too much assembly line time to install a DPF in place of a removable section exhaust pipe or muffler, bolt-up the DEF tank to frame, plug into wiring harness and put injector into a boss welded into DPF.
The PCM would need programming, but those PCM’s would be a pre-programmed part of a package for the “environmentalist option”.

Agreed. Some components are more easily modularized or optioned than others. And on-road vehicles or even tractors operate at margins completely different than the handheld or even walk-behind OPE I had in mind when I typed that post.