Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[dodge man]

I’ll add one more thing. There is a lot of employment when they are built. Local is a relative word but many were local and most lived within 2 hours or less. There was well over a 100 most days. Concrete plants and quarries were very busy. Truckers were busy hauling in all the materials. Some days I worked on the project, another person from our office and I brought in people from another office to help. We put a lot of wood stakes in the ground.

Long term employment? I’ve been to their maintenance building. I don’t have an exact number but my guess would be about 10 people full time.

 

[fishheadbob]

I don't like seeing smokestacks, and I don't like seeing the haze from coal plants 100 miles away; but I don't like seeing mega windmills on the horizon either. Solar has a ways to go before it is much of an answer. Oh, and I'm a hardcore fisherman who wants those hydro dams gone so fish can go upstream. Time for me to teleport back to the 1840s? If I can't get back to the good old 40s looks like I'm going to have to adjust to progress.

 

[jyoutz]

There’s a huge wind farm being constructed about 50 miles SE of where I live. It’s said to be the second largest in the nation when completed. It’s in open ranch country, so not near any communities. The ranchers leased the land and that is their decision. Would I want to live near it? No. There are also lots of big solar fields all around the state and coal plants have all been converted to natural gas. It has cleared up the regional haze that the coal plants used to produce. Things change.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I feel we need a mix of energy sources, as there is no one perfect one. I'm sure there is a balance of coal, oil, gas, wind, solar, nuculear, hydro that can provide energy for all. Where they are built is the hard part. Parking lots, rooftops for solar? Fossil fueled in an area where wind patterns favor populations? Reality is, there will always be a population opposed to each source of energy. Diversification is the best answer for me.
As far as the blinking red lights atop windmills, I have 15 or so on the western ridge about 1-2 miles as the crow flies, We are on east ridge. They don't bother me, and when I star gaze, I'm looking up more than out. And when I look out, the red lights add a little. Another set of windmills is more than 10 miles, as the crow flies. They don't bother me a bit.
I have visited family on Martha's Vineyard MA, and the windmills there would bug the hell out of me if I lived nearby, as there are no faraway places to build them on an island. Around here, there aren't people living close enough to hear that whoosh whoosh.
Remember, our future is very dependent on energy due to technology alone, with growing population adding as well. I've only heard of data centers and the amount of energy needed to power them, just not sure why. But that energy consumption will not change, only get worse. Impossible to get back to "the good old days".

 

[BackRoad]

Some (not me) would argue that it's not your view. You don't own anything past your property lines, nor have a right complain about it.

I think about this often when I drive by the three huge data centers, a battery plant, a steel mill, a peaker power plant that have been built to the west of us. I think about the old farmer couple who never signed up for that view.

But then again, their neighbors sold out and moved on.

You're legally right, yet not totally right...at least in my county in PA.

The local tax appraiser showed up on my property measuring the outside dimensions of my newly built house.

Then started taking photos of the views off the front porch.

He said part of the taxable rate was based on the view FROM the property...so the view of the neighboring surround does have value to the tax man at least, and an added cost to the home owner...

 

[MossRoad]

...Its your business, not the counties. Make it work.

So if it's their business, why are you butting in to it? Hmmmm?

That's the question people ask when someone is all for individual property rights and no government interference, I hate lawyers, etc.. until what goes on at that property negatively affects them. Then government should save them, they hire lawyers themselves, and try and dictate what goes on on someone else's property.

It's massively hypocritical.

 

[MossRoad]

I’ll add one more thing. There is a lot of employment when they are built. Local is a relative word but many were local and most lived within 2 hours or less. There was well over a 100 most days. Concrete plants and quarries were very busy. Truckers were busy hauling in all the materials. Some days I worked on the project, another person from our office and I brought in people from another office to help. We put a lot of wood stakes in the ground.

Long term employment? I’ve been to their maintenance building. I don’t have an exact number but my guess would be about 10 people full time.

That's one of the things about these data centers being built west of us. Thousands of jobs during construction, push to get young people into the trades, etc.. hotels and campgrounds booked up for a couple years..... then it's over. Where are the thousands of tradespeople unemployed. So their unions push for more construction, no matter the project. If more construction doesn't come, those newly minted tradespeople have to move to find other jobs. Huge growth is temporary jobs.

Talking to several people I know in the trades and they say it'll be about a 10 year cycle. Boom then bust for them. The one's in their later years will make major dollars and retire. The younger ones will make major dollars then have to figure out what to do next. They expect a large chunk of the younger folks will leave the trades after the boom cycle.

 

[MossRoad]

I don't like seeing smokestacks, ....

There are three data centers to our west. Best count is about 600 stacks. They aren't visibly smoking, but something is coming out of them.

 

[ponytug]

Cooling towers? Natural gas fuel cells or turbine exhausts? Not much else needs venting.

Given the low human occupancy levels, fresh air exchange is pretty minimal.

All the best, Peter

 

[MossRoad]

You're legally right, yet not totally right...at least in my county in PA.

The local tax appraiser showed up on my property measuring the outside dimensions of my newly built house.

Then started taking photos of the views off the front porch.

He said part of the taxable rate was based on the view FROM the property...so the view of the neighboring surround does have value to the tax man at least, and an added cost to the home owner...

Location, location, location. A nice view is appealing and does affect the price of a house. However, I doubt there's a 'view tax'. There's an assessment of the total value of the property. View is just one factor of many. We're taxed on that total assessment.

For example, our house is desirable because we are near an airport, a bus terminal, two passenger train lines, and a city bus line. Those are pluses.

Then again, our house is less desirable because of the noise and lights from an airport, a bus terminal, two freight train lines, and bus traffic. Those are negatives.

Add in the part where we own the largest parcel (1.19 acres) in a several block area, and they cannot find a comparable home in the area, so we are compared to homes about 3 miles away for tax assessment.

There are so many things that affect assessment.

 

[MossRoad]

Cooling towers? Natural gas fuel cells or turbine exhausts? Not much else needs venting.

Given the low human occupancy levels, fresh air exchange is pretty minimal.

All the best, Peter

Not sure what they are. There are several hundred what look like air conditioner condensers on the roofs.

These things with the stacks on them look like generators on the sides of the buildings. There's 13 on each building and 16 buildings so far. Each has a stack sticking out the top that appears to be 2' in diameter.

Amazing that they went up in less than 3 years. Google street views still shows corn fields.

 

[ponytug]

My bet would be gas turbines, either for prime or backup power. They start at container size and go up.
E.g. Musk's allegedly permitless ones;

Musk's xAI data centre allegedly running illegal gas turbines - Capacity

New images of Elon Musk’s xAI data centre reveal a major expansion of on-site gas turbines, which campaigners claim violates environmental regulations.

capacityglobal.com

Or like these?

Making them container sized means easy transport, construction is just pouring a pad with hookups, with minimal crane work, and repairs can be done on, or off, site.

All the best, Peter

 

[JJT]

We have a 2500 acre solar farm going in here. It was a 7 year process to get approval. The dairy farmers are going broke, so they bought in. There is a small contingent of antisolar folks. Most people simply don't care. I've attended most of the public hearings, the antisolar folks are very vocal. They support solar but not in their back yard.....

The tax benefits are substantial, our town tax should go to zero, the school and county will get millions and all the town residents will get a $100/month credit on their electric bills for 10 years. The lease holders will see $1,500/acre/year for the next 40 years. It's mediocre farm land, not prime ag soil. No farmer is making $1,500/acre on hay, soy or corn.

It's all about location - where is vacant land inexpensive and where can the grid take the increased power. You will never see these big projects in wealthy communities.

I'm a strong supporter of an individual's land rights, but those rights end at their property line. Don't stick your nose over my fence and tell me what I can/cannot do on my property. I'm a strong supported of this solar project. I am not a lease holder.

For every study that shows solar negatively impacts property values you can find one that says solar increases property values. I'd happily trade my neighbor, (over a 1000' away) with the barking dog 24x7 for a solar farm.

 

[BackRoad]

Location, location, location. A nice view is appealing and does affect the price of a house. However, I doubt there's a 'view tax'. There's an assessment of the total value of the property. View is just one factor of many. We're taxed on that total assessment.

For example, our house is desirable because we are near an airport, a bus terminal, two passenger train lines, and a city bus line. Those are pluses.

Then again, our house is less desirable because of the noise and lights from an airport, a bus terminal, two freight train lines, and bus traffic. Those are negatives.

Add in the part where we own the largest parcel (1.19 acres) in a several block area, and they cannot find a comparable home in the area, so we are compared to homes about 3 miles away for tax assessment.

There are so many things that affect assessment.

Yes!!! Many things outside of your property line affect the property owner!

So what is outside of your control does have direct impact on the home owner.

NIMBY to include solar farms and wind mills (which I personally find graceful and not as much of an eyesore as many) may be a justifiable and reasonable position.

I'd fight like hell if there was a mega landfill proposal near me...even though not within my property lines.

 

[dodge man]

The workers that built the wind farm I worked on some surveying were local union and mostly not wind farm specialists. They had a little trouble because they didn’t have enough people that knew how to put up a turbine.

 

[edgarrian]

So if it's their business, why are you butting in to it? Hmmmm?

That's the question people ask when someone is all for individual property rights and no government interference, I hate lawyers, etc.. until what goes on at that property negatively affects them. Then government should save them, they hire lawyers themselves, and try and dictate what goes on on someone else's property.

It's massively hypocritical.

So why do we have zoning? There are 4 layers correct? Residential, Commercial, industrial, and agricultural. If it didnt matter what we did on our properties. Then why have zoning.

Zoning is suppose to protect each individuals property. In many cases our homes and property are families biggest investments. thats true of the middle class. Rural communities are made up mostly of the middle class.

Like I stated earlier if the farmer doesn't want opposition. He could just buy all the other properties near his acreage to allow the company to build their power (industrial) plants.

IN our case the farmers were doing exactly as you speak of. Asking the county to save them b/c they need this. All the while other farmers are sitting on the other side of the room. Running a profitable farming business. Did they have to re-tool. Absolutely. There isn't many businesses that keep going without keeping up with the times.

I think projects like this have a place and its certainly not in a rural community. There is enough land in this country to use for these projects that dont effect people. Or installing solar on top of warehouses and so on. Other countries do that. Problem here is red tape and of course the fires that burnt down some warehouses from having solar on top.

Everyone has a hypnotically thought. Im guessing you wouldn't want to live by a sewage treatment plant? It would effect your property in unpleasant ways.

 

[edgarrian]

The workers that built the wind farm I worked on some surveying were local union and mostly not wind farm specialists. They had a little trouble because they didn’t have enough people that knew how to put up a turbine.

When commissioners approve projects in these rural areas. The unions are typically not local to the county the work is being done. Tipton County IN went through this dissapointment. All three commissioners regretted green lighting it. This may not be the case for every project but I think for the most part. Thats how it is. Heck even the ground keeping of a solar project is union ran.

 

[edgarrian]

Location, location, location. A nice view is appealing and does affect the price of a house. However, I doubt there's a 'view tax'. There's an assessment of the total value of the property. View is just one factor of many. We're taxed on that total assessment.

For example, our house is desirable because we are near an airport, a bus terminal, two passenger train lines, and a city bus line. Those are pluses.

Then again, our house is less desirable because of the noise and lights from an airport, a bus terminal, two freight train lines, and bus traffic. Those are negatives.

Add in the part where we own the largest parcel (1.19 acres) in a several block area, and they cannot find a comparable home in the area, so we are compared to homes about 3 miles away for tax assessment.

There are so many things that affect assessment.

Assessment is for collecting tax. Sales is for the owner and buyer. Two completely different transactions. The latter is where location, location, location comes into play.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Not true in all states. In VT, they factor in site value when assessing. That includes the view. While it's not written as policy, when talking with the assessors, they will tell you view is considered.

 

[edgarrian]

We have a 2500 acre solar farm going in here. It was a 7 year process to get approval. The dairy farmers are going broke, so they bought in. There is a small contingent of antisolar folks. Most people simply don't care. I've attended most of the public hearings, the antisolar folks are very vocal. They support solar but not in their back yard.....

The tax benefits are substantial, our town tax should go to zero, the school and county will get millions and all the town residents will get a $100/month credit on their electric bills for 10 years. The lease holders will see $1,500/acre/year for the next 40 years. It's mediocre farm land, not prime ag soil. No farmer is making $1,500/acre on hay, soy or corn.

It's all about location - where is vacant land inexpensive and where can the grid take the increased power. You will never see these big projects in wealthy communities.

I'm a strong supporter of an individual's land rights, but those rights end at their property line. Don't stick your nose over my fence and tell me what I can/cannot do on my property. I'm a strong supported of this solar project. I am not a lease holder.

For every study that shows solar negatively impacts property values you can find one that says solar increases property values. I'd happily trade my neighbor, (over a 1000' away) with the barking dog 24x7 for a solar farm.

Every county that has these projects footed to them have differing contracts. The Tipton County Wind project did not revitalize the area. Its has not grown. Since the abatement is gone the school needs new funding. I believe this community received a slight discount on property taxes but thats long gone now.

Your right about wealthy areas b/c they dont need revitalized. Which is the wording they chose to use when selling the projects here in indiana. Generally that means you are improving the area. IN what way?

Property rights are definitely a tricky situation. If it was so cut and dry as u make it out. Why have residential, commercial, industrial and agricultural zoning? If i purchased the property next yours and built a sewage treatment plant. You would have something to say.

As for farmers needing the money. For every farmer you say is broke or struggling to make it. I can show you farmers who are doing well without these projects. Farming is a business. Its not a charity and it shouldn't be looked upon as one.