Thoughts on mega wind and solar projects

[edgarrian]

Hey everyone,

We live in Indiana. Im asking everyones thoughts on living inside a few thousand acre wind or solar project. Or nearby it where you can see it from your property.

A bit of background about myself and my wife. We purchased 8 acres all woods from a bank. I cleared the trees in 2014 and in 2015 started building. During the build we had heard about a wind farm trying to move into the area. Needless to say. I was really dissappointed considering we made it a point not to buy land that was near property that was zoned as commercial or industrial. So my life was consumed by having a voice and being heard. The opposition grew quickly and meeting needed much bigger venues and had to be moved to later in the day to account for all the people. The tide turned our way when I did a records request on all three commissioners. The president was lying often. The wind reps were as well. Made the findings public and he resigned shortly after. Some interesting things I found out. I was looking for a local appraisal company to do a study on the impacts of the project. They were not interested. So i hired a company that wasn't even in the state. The findings were not favorable for the wind company. I went to almost every real estate company in the county. To my surprise the wind company had visited them months before I got to them. If anyone knows much about real estate. There is three words that was a common thing to say for property values. Location, Location, Location..... Some how this seemingly changed. They were telling me it would not effect the values b/c the wind company said it wouldn't. I was at a loss.

Long story short. In the end we did get a favorable ordinance and they would get zero incentives from the county. They walked. Then a solar project tried to come in around 2020. They moved out. Now we have another company signing farmers up for a solar farm and hoping to get a zoning change. I dont think it will happen but it starts again. I told the group the other day. Its time to start sending letters of intent.

So what are your thoughts of living inside or near a huge solar or wind projects. Im talking 1000 acres or more

 

[MossRoad]

I wouldn't want to be within site of wind turbines. They disrupt the view and cannot be un-seen. With that said, we have a tree farm and enough trees that we could not see a wind farm if it was right next to us.

We live near several solar farms. No problem with them. They are shorter than the corn and hard to see unless you're looking for them. They actually keep some snow off the roads in winter. Some guy grazes sheep under them and is doing well. The landowners retain ownership of the land. The land gets a rest from intensive farming. No erosion. No crop chemicals and fertilizers going into the water. Specialty crops can be grown if desired. Money is put in a bond to remove the solar after X years if the landowners don't want to renew when the lease is up. It's a win-win for the landowners and solar companies.

One thing I find both ironic and hypocritical on TBN is there's a big push by a lot of members for rural living, being able to do what you want on your own property, if you don't like what your neighbor is doing, you should have bought the land before them, etc....

yet they think it's now OK to push back against something they don't like because it might effect their property value...

I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored.

 

[edgarrian]

I wouldn't want to be within site of wind turbines. They disrupt the view and cannot be un-seen. With that said, we have a tree farm and enough trees that we could not see a wind farm if it was right next to us.

We live near several solar farms. No problem with them. They are shorter than the corn and hard to see unless you're looking for them. They actually keep some snow off the roads in winter. Some guy grazes sheep under them and is doing well. The landowners retain ownership of the land. The land gets a rest from intensive farming. No erosion. No crop chemicals and fertilizers going into the water. Specialty crops can be grown if desired. Money is put in a bond to remove the solar after X years if the landowners don't want to renew when the lease is up. It's a win-win for the landowners and solar companies.

One thing I find both ironic and hypocritical on TBN is there's a big push by a lot of members for rural living, being able to do what you want on your own property, if you don't like what your neighbor is doing, you should have bought the land before them, etc....

yet they think it's now OK to push back against something they don't like because it might effect their property value...

I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored.

I come from family farming in the 80s and 90s. My grandpa owned since the 40s. My point here is that when any of the neighboring farmers were wanting to do something big. It was neighborly to get everyones thoughts. We were about to put up a few commercial hog buildings. We had a few neighbors that were not really excited about it. In the end we decided against it.

The problem I see with this is as a homeowner you can't go off zoning anymore. Seldomly these projects are not listed as commercial nor industrial. So there is no protections. Its interesting that you wouldn't want to live near or inside wind turbines but also believe that the neighbor should have purchased the land if they didnt want solar or wind. The flip side to this saying is: IF the farmer didnt want opposition. He should have bought the neighbors land. If a farmer wants to be a part of a power plant. Then he should buy land zoned as commercial or industrial.

Interestingly enough we have several farmers that spoke against such projects. These are guys who have had to keep up with the times and create their own avenues for wealth building. They didnt seek favoritism from the county. They just did it as so many others have.

Thanks for the input. I know this is a touchy subject at times

 

[BackRoad]

...

One thing I find both ironic and hypocritical on TBN is there's a big push by a lot of members for rural living, being able to do what you want on your own property, if you don't like what your neighbor is doing, you should have bought the land before them, etc....

yet they think it's now OK to push back against something they don't like because it might effect their property value...

I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored.

I think Mr. MossRoad, the symptoms as you describe are shared by many more than just TBN members.

You can't even fly the American flag nowadays without somebody getting their pantaloons in a wad.

 

[Jstpssng]

I think Mr. MossRoad, the symptoms as you describe are shared by many more than just TBN members.

You can't even fly the American flag nowadays without somebody getting their pantaloons in a wad.

The problem is that he's comparing tomatoes to grapefruits. Do what you want on your own land provided that it stays within your boundaries. Aside from the fact that he will be paying for the project through subsidies and tax breaks, the noise and light effects are well known.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Several states have passed laws that mandate all electric by 2035 or some other date.
In these states there is no stopping most green energy projects because the state laws mandate the green energy, this basically gives local input no weight in the final decision for these green projects, so they can't be vetoed by public outcry. They can only be defeated by changing the law at this point.
The Washington state law that has already gone into effect makes it so the goals of all ellectric are achieved, no matter what. Kind of totalitarian in a way.
I have a solar farm going in less than 1 mile from my property that will be 163Mw with 63Mw of battery storage. Its called progress as far as I am concerned.

A 5 billion dollar pumped storage project is on the table and in planning 5 miles from my property. There is an uproar over it due to environmental concerns. But it to will get a pass because the reality of the state statute for green energy gives final approval to bureaucrats on an appointed commision. If they don't approve these projects then they are in violation of the law the way it is written. So local input really doesn't matter.

So at least in Washington state the deck is stacked by law to approve all projects that will save the planet. Well thats what the law says, even though it is quite miss-guided.


No more coal power production after the end of December 2025 was part of that law. The president used a national security threat ruling and through executive order trumped (pun intended) the new state law to keep the last coal fired energy plant in the state in operation. We don't know for how long though as the state is taking legal action to try to get this reversed.
How about no more Natural Gas usage by 2030.
All electric vehicles by 2035.
No more Propane installs after 2030.
The law doesn't want us using any fuel for internal cumbustion engines.
These last several line I posted just to show the why every green energy project must be approved.

Bottom line is we don't have enough power and probably never will! LOL

 

[Jstpssng]

The irony of "green power"...
Here in Maine we just had a huge powerline project to bring green hydro power from Quebec down in to Massachussets. Meanwhile, dams and hydro in this state are being pulled because dams are evil.

Go figure...

 

[MossRoad]

... Its interesting that you wouldn't want to live near or inside wind turbines but also believe that the neighbor should have purchased the land if they didnt want solar or wind. ...

I never said that. It's how you interpreted it. But I never said that. What I said was many people here on TBN have said that. I wasn't one of them.

 

[MossRoad]

I come from family farming in the 80s and 90s. My grandpa owned since the 40s. My point here is that when any of the neighboring farmers were wanting to do something big. It was neighborly to get everyones thoughts. We were about to put up a few commercial hog buildings. We had a few neighbors that were not really excited about it. In the end we decided against it.

The problem I see with this is as a homeowner you can't go off zoning anymore. Seldomly these projects are not listed as commercial nor industrial. So there is no protections. Its interesting that you wouldn't want to live near or inside wind turbines but also believe that the neighbor should have purchased the land if they didnt want solar or wind. The flip side to this saying is: IF the farmer didnt want opposition. He should have bought the neighbors land. If a farmer wants to be a part of a power plant. Then he should buy land zoned as commercial or industrial.

Interestingly enough we have several farmers that spoke against such projects. These are guys who have had to keep up with the times and create their own avenues for wealth building. They didnt seek favoritism from the county. They just did it as so many others have.

Thanks for the input. I know this is a touchy subject at times

Also, at least around here, it's a consortium of farmers that get together and lease to these solar and wind projects. It's solely the group of farmers that make these decisions. Unless enough farmers get together to make a chunk of land large enough to be a viable project, the project wouldn't start in the first place.

So, start with the farmers that are doing this, not the companies that are enticing them to lease.

 

[MossRoad]

I think Mr. MossRoad, the symptoms as you describe are shared by many more than just TBN members.

You can't even fly the American flag nowadays without somebody getting their pantaloons in a wad.

I'm looking into putting up a 20-30' flag pole next summer.

 

[Dan Hunter]

Some research will reflect the folly of wind power. That aside, I used to have a view from my ranch that stretched from Fairview OK to Wichita, KS that was gorgeous. I had a broad view of rural living...porch lights to some city lights but very light light pollution that trashes star gazing. Now, I have a broad expansive view of red lights flashing in unison. It's as attractive as police car lights in your rear view mirror. I occasionally wake up and just watch the lights on the turbines go off and the surrounding lights take over before sunrise. I hope that I live until the they're removed.

 

[MossRoad]

Several states have passed laws that mandate all electric by 2035 or some other date.
In these states there is no stopping most green energy projects because the state laws mandate the green energy, this basically gives local input no weight in the final decision for these green projects, so they can't be vetoed by public outcry. They can only be defeated by changing the law at this point.
The Washington state law that has already gone into effect makes it so the goals of all ellectric are achieved, no matter what. Kind of totalitarian in a way.
I have a solar farm going in less than 1 mile from my property that will be 163Mw with 63Mw of battery storage. Its called progress as far as I am concerned.

A 5 billion dollar pumped storage project is on the table and in planning 5 miles from my property. There is an uproar over it due to environmental concerns. But it to will get a pass because the reality of the state statute for green energy gives final approval to bureaucrats on an appointed commision. If they don't approve these projects then they are in violation of the law the way it is written. So local input really doesn't matter.

So at least in Washington state the deck is stacked by law to approve all projects that will save the planet. Well thats what the law says, even though it is quite miss-guided.


No more coal power production after the end of December 2025 was part of that law. The president used a national security threat ruling and through executive order trumped (pun intended) the new state law to keep the last coal fired energy plant in the state in operation. We don't know for how long though as the state is taking legal action to try to get this reversed.
How about no more Natural Gas usage by 2030.
All electric vehicles by 2035.
No more Propane installs after 2030.
The law doesn't want us using any fuel for internal cumbustion engines.
These last several line I posted just to show the why every green energy project must be approved.

Bottom line is we don't have enough power and probably never will! LOL

There's been a pumped storage plant in Ludington, MI since 1973.

Ludington Pumped Storage Power Plant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GrandpaSmurf825]

Illinois thanks to our fat little sleazy governor has forced all coal fired power plants out. By 2028 if not sooner we will have 2 coal plants left, We have several nuclear plants and solar is going up all over. I personally would rather see wind turbines than solar fields. The closest wind turbine farm is about 20 away but from the right locations at night you can see the red beacons flashing in unison. They are only a couple mile from some of the ground my farmer friend I help farms. As many solar fields as have been installed and we are still no where close to having enough supply within the state to meet our needs. That wasn't a big problem until they decided to force the coal plants out.

There was going to be a second wind turbine farm. Since there is no zoning in most rural counties the county board used another method to deter it. Since the roads they needed to use to bring the heavy trucks in and out were going to need some major upgrading they set the dollar amount for that so high that the developer told them to stick it. I don't know if that was the right thing or not. Besides the tax boost they lost there also is a lot of other secondary businesses that would have gotten a lot of benefit. A friend that runs the two local rock quarries said they were going to crush 100,000 ton of rock for the project. No easy answers and no one wants a wind farm or solar farm in their back yard. Same with a hog confinement. There's always something.

 

[MossRoad]

Some research will reflect the folly of wind power. That aside, I used to have a view from my ranch that stretched from Fairview OK to Wichita, KS that was gorgeous. I had a broad view of rural living...porch lights to some city lights but very light light pollution that trashes star gazing. Now, I have a broad expansive view of red lights flashing in unison. It's as attractive as police car lights in your rear view mirror. I occasionally wake up and just watch the lights on the turbines go off and the surrounding lights take over before sunrise. I hope that I live until the they're removed.

Some (not me) would argue that it's not your view. You don't own anything past your property lines, nor have a right complain about it.

I think about this often when I drive by the three huge data centers, a battery plant, a steel mill, a peaker power plant that have been built to the west of us. I think about the old farmer couple who never signed up for that view.

But then again, their neighbors sold out and moved on.

 

[edgarrian]

Several states have passed laws that mandate all electric by 2035 or some other date.
In these states there is no stopping most green energy projects because the state laws mandate the green energy, this basically gives local input no weight in the final decision for these green projects, so they can't be vetoed by public outcry. They can only be defeated by changing the law at this point.
The Washington state law that has already gone into effect makes it so the goals of all ellectric are achieved, no matter what. Kind of totalitarian in a way.
I have a solar farm going in less than 1 mile from my property that will be 163Mw with 63Mw of battery storage. Its called progress as far as I am concerned.

A 5 billion dollar pumped storage project is on the table and in planning 5 miles from my property. There is an uproar over it due to environmental concerns. But it to will get a pass because the reality of the state statute for green energy gives final approval to bureaucrats on an appointed commision. If they don't approve these projects then they are in violation of the law the way it is written. So local input really doesn't matter.

So at least in Washington state the deck is stacked by law to approve all projects that will save the planet. Well thats what the law says, even though it is quite miss-guided.


No more coal power production after the end of December 2025 was part of that law. The president used a national security threat ruling and through executive order trumped (pun intended) the new state law to keep the last coal fired energy plant in the state in operation. We don't know for how long though as the state is taking legal action to try to get this reversed.
How about no more Natural Gas usage by 2030.
All electric vehicles by 2035.
No more Propane installs after 2030.
The law doesn't want us using any fuel for internal cumbustion engines.
These last several line I posted just to show the why every green energy project must be approved.

Bottom line is we don't have enough power and probably never will! LOL

Indiana tried to pass a bill that regulated wind and solar. Much like ohio did a few years ago. The push back on that bill was big. So indiana passed a bill that only regulates these projects if the county approves them. The bill also incentivizes counties to approve these projects. But most counties are passing restrictions b/c they are not wanted. Ohio end up reversing their law to what I believe is similar to indianas.

 

[edgarrian]

I never said that. It's how you interpreted it. But I never said that. What I said was many people here on TBN have said that. I wasn't one of them.

Sorry about that. Thanks for correcting.

 

[edgarrian]

Also, at least around here, it's a consortium of farmers that get together and lease to these solar and wind projects. It's solely the group of farmers that make these decisions. Unless enough farmers get together to make a chunk of land large enough to be a viable project, the project wouldn't start in the first place.

So, start with the farmers that are doing this, not the companies that are enticing them to lease.

Most definitely. During our meetings I would say if the farmers didnt sign up we wouldn't be doing this right now. Id get a lot frown faces for this opinion. Truth is people hold a special place in their hearts for farmers. Bc of the dedication it requires. The long hours and the time spent in uncomfortable weather. I grew up on one so I get it. But at commissioner meetings. They just go up and say you need to pass this b/c you know how much we need this. The correct response is No We Don't. Its your business, not the counties. Make it work.

 

[mark in portugal]

I sort of like to see the big mills turning; at a distance.
Some have been placed close to homes, and I think that's a crime.

One house I know has a rotating shadow through the window at certain times of day; and then there's the noise. A very low whoop whoop whoop.

A friend of mine moved home because of the sound of a new turbine. Lucky for him, he was renting at the time.

I don't mind the big solar fields, nor the small ones. I like it better than smokestacks.

 

[edgarrian]

Illinois thanks to our fat little sleazy governor has forced all coal fired power plants out. By 2028 if not sooner we will have 2 coal plants left, We have several nuclear plants and solar is going up all over. I personally would rather see wind turbines than solar fields. The closest wind turbine farm is about 20 away but from the right locations at night you can see the red beacons flashing in unison. They are only a couple mile from some of the ground my farmer friend I help farms. As many solar fields as have been installed and we are still no where close to having enough supply within the state to meet our needs. That wasn't a big problem until they decided to force the coal plants out.

There was going to be a second wind turbine farm. Since there is no zoning in most rural counties the county board used another method to deter it. Since the roads they needed to use to bring the heavy trucks in and out were going to need some major upgrading they set the dollar amount for that so high that the developer told them to stick it. I don't know if that was the right thing or not. Besides the tax boost they lost there also is a lot of other secondary businesses that would have gotten a lot of benefit. A friend that runs the two local rock quarries said they were going to crush 100,000 ton of rock for the project. No easy answers and no one wants a wind farm or solar farm in their back yard. Same with a hog confinement. There's always something.

I personally dont think there is much to gain for the local area through employment and jobs. We had several out of town union people attending our zoning meetings. The trucking company was union (not local). The installers were union (not local). Once the project is up and running it was suppose to be a 10 million dollar abatement. But for what maybe 4-6 permanent jobs. They advertised as much as 10-15. For that many permanent jobs. A 10 million dollar abatement makes no sense.

Our neighboring County north of us. Approved the wind project. The permanent jobs are out of chicago b/c there isn't anyone in the area that can work on the wind project. This project was approved b/c the area was considered needing revitalized. The 10 year abatement has run its course. The school needs new funding. The population has not grown at all. New business has not come in. So the area is probably worst off. Revitalize was huge in 2016.

Maybe other states have negotiated better deals for the counties that have these projects. Not so much here in Indiana

 

[dodge man]

I’m a retired land surveyor and the last year before I retired I spent most of my time working on a 60 turbine wind farm. This was about 60 years ago.

There are people that come from outside the area to protest against wind farms. In our area they came from Dekalb Illinois area which has a huge wind farm. They usually don’t bring up hurting the view. I guess to say they are ugly isn’t a legitimate complaint? Shadow flicker and noise are complaints. If your house is far enough away those aren’t an issue.

When I started working on the wind farm I would say I’m slightly in favor of them. 6 years later I’d say I’m slightly against them. Without getting into to details they have had various problems with about half the turbines. So from a practical point of view they seem high maintenance to me.

Solar farms? I’m finding it hard to find a reason to object to them. They are quiet, low impact, not very tall. Pleasant to look at? Not really but better than say a hog farm.

Politics are not favoring either these days like they were a few years ago but that will change. I’d just say I’m not sure they’re as green as they are made out to be.