Cold weather start problem

[ernemats]

We have had several days of cold weather lows about 5 above. Today got up to about 35 so I decided to get the 422 Power Trac ready for the snow that is to be coming Sunday, well it would not start turned over fine and would run at a slow idle for about 5 seconds then would stop , same thing happened several times. Tried with choke at different settings and same thing , to me it seems like a fuel problem. First I have had starting problem for a long time it usually starts right up. Any ideas what to check first

 

[ponytug]

Murphy strikes again. Not the time for it, is it?

The starting and then dying is suggestive to me of fuel starvation. Perhaps there is water in the fuel, even some ice in the fuel or fuel line? Have you looked in the tank? With all of the cold, water or condensation may have precipitated out of the fuel. Can you warm the engine /gas tank area up at all? Heat gun? Hot pad?

Regardless, a can of anti-icing additive probably wouldn't hurt.

All the best,

Peter

 

[m5040]

My PT180 acts the same way. It seems to me that the hydraulics start flowing in that time period and when pressure starts to build, the engine can't mange the load.

When I need to use the tractor, I put an old fashion incandescent drop light with 100 watt bulb as low as possible in the engine compartment and cover the engine hood/compartment with a blanket at least 24 hours before use. This is in an unheated building.

This will heat the engine, pumps and one wall of the hyd tank. Works for me. Just be careful with oils, gas and flammable products or use a smaller lightbulb.

 

[ernemats]

Tried again temp in mid 20's turns over fine sounds like it wants to start but no go. Put new spark plugs in and new fuel filter , checked spark and it was real strong at both cylinders , tried using starting fluid still would not start.

 

[ponytug]

Tried again temp in mid 20's turns over fine sounds like it wants to start but no go. Put new spark plugs in and new fuel filter , checked spark and it was real strong at both cylinders , tried using starting fluid still would not start.

That sounds frustrating.

Are you get fuel through to the cylinders? I.e. you smell gas when cranking? Any chance that the air intake is clogged? (Some rodent moved in?)

Any chance that the carburetor needs cleaning? (You don't have the EFI engine, correct?)

All the best, Peter

 

[jfh28]

yeah it's been getting pretty cold here too......I've got the Robin engine and I've experienced the exact same thing you have but only on hot humid days in the summer so I suspect it's a moisture thing.....do you keep your machine in an enclosed building that you can heat.......even just running an electric heater for a half hour before you start it could make a difference.......mines in a garage that I dropped one heat duct in to so it puts some heat in there (maybe 30-40 degrees) and I rarely have a problem starting in the winter......Moss posted about how he started a while ago and I've been following it and seem to have good results.....set the throttle about 1/4 speed......set choke at 1/2 and turn the key.....let it crank for maybe a little less then 10 seconds and then while it's still cranking push the choke down all the way......mine starts almost immediately then....as soon as it starts I push the choke all the way back up and you can hear the engine smooth out and get up to power.....hope you get yours started up.....why do problems always show up when there's a big storm and never when it only snows 2"?.......lol........I think someone mentioned that Robin has a "bowl" type carburetor so maybe that makes it more sensitive to moisture?.......I know I use to get a backfire when I turned it off until someone said with the bowl type push the throttle all the way up to idle and let it idle for a minute or so before turning it off and doing that seems to have solved that problem

 

[MossRoad]

I started mine at 5F the other day. No starter fluid. Just normal choke and small amount of throttle, and increase choke while cranking until it fires. Then increase fuel and decrease throttle to get it running smoothly. Pretty happy with that. It's a balmy 14 today and snowing. I'll plow again tonight.

 

[grsthegreat]

Do you have winter blend fuel in the unit? Here in idaho about October gas stations start blending diesel #1&#2. Never had any starting issues in 30 years. I make sure to have nearly empty storage tank before winter arrives.

 

[MossRoad]

Tried again temp in mid 20's turns over fine sounds like it wants to start but no go. Put new spark plugs in and new fuel filter , checked spark and it was real strong at both cylinders , tried using starting fluid still would not start.

Would it even pop on starting fluid?

 

[MossRoad]

Do you have winter blend fuel in the unit? Here in idaho about October gas stations start blending diesel #1&#2. Never had any starting issues in 30 years. I make sure to have nearly empty storage tank before winter arrives.

It's a gasoline powered machine. As someone else mentioned, it might be a good idea to add fuel treatment to any stored gas.

I never do, except for my generator, but it can't hurt.

 

[MossRoad]

Would it even pop on starting fluid?

You mentioned you have good spark. So it should at least pop on starting fluid.

If good spark and no pop on starting fluid, then suspect valves not opening.

At least that would be my first area of interest.

 

[ponytug]

You mentioned you have good spark. So it should at least pop on starting fluid.

If good spark and no pop on starting fluid, then suspect valves not opening.

At least that would be my first area of interest.

Or a clogged intake...

 

[grsthegreat]

It's a gasoline powered machine. As someone else mentioned, it might be a good idea to add fuel treatment to any stored gas.

I never do, except for my generator, but it can't hurt.

That I missed

 

[MossRoad]

Or a clogged intake...

Anytime I use starting fluid, I take the air cleaner off and look in the carb. I can also see in there as I crank to see if fuel is squirting in. I spray a shot directly into the carb.

 

[MossRoad]

That I missed

That's OK. We smaller PowerTrac owners are freaks of nature. The larger units are diesel.

 

[ernemats]

It does not sit very long as I use it almost every day and I get 5 gallons of gas every week or 2. It will almost start and sometimes it runs for about 5 seconds. Sometimes while using the starter black smoke comes out the exhaust and several times a flame would shoot out. Tried using heater to warm it up also.

 

[ponytug]

It does not sit very long as I use it almost every day and I get 5 gallons of gas every week or 2. It will almost start and sometimes it runs for about 5 seconds. Sometimes while using the starter black smoke comes out the exhaust and several times a flame would shoot out. Tried using heater to warm it up also.

If you have a good spark, and flames out of the exhaust, I am sorry to say, but I think it is probably time to check your valves and timing.

All the best, Peter

 

[MossRoad]

When I had similar troubles with my Kohler engine, a rocker arm retaining nut had backed off, allowing the rocker are to turn on its stand, which allowed a push rod to pop out from under it. It pushed the push rod through the valve cover. I was able to see it through the oil filler cap that's on one of my valve covers, so that's why it was easy to diagnose. I removed the valve cover (broke a screw, whole extraction process was well documented years ago) set the rocker back in position, tightened the nut to factory specs, checked all of the others, replaced valve cover (another saga regarding gaskets) and I was good to go.

The Kohler in mine has hydraulic valve lifters, so there is no valve adjustment.

I think I read somewhere that the Robin needs valve adjustment from time to time, but I may be indcorrect.

So, if it is valves, it may be as easy as removing a valve cover, removing the spark plug wires, crank the engine over and see if the rockers are moving the valves first. If not, then it's obvious. If yes, then they still might be out of adjustment.

If either one of those are true, they you'd need to go through the valve adjustment procedure for that engine.

Good luck. I'm not trying to get you to tear into your engine. Just going down the logical troubleshooting path.

Remove air cleaner.
- If good spark and engine pop with starting fluid, then check fuel
- If good fuel to the carb, then check needle and seat.
- If fuel injection, I can't help you.
- If needle and seat are working properly, check valves.
- You could run a compression test to see if it builds and holds pressure.
- Or, you could remove valve covers and check valve adjustment per engine manual.
- If none of that works, it might be timing issue.

One other thing you could try is removing both spark plugs, crank the engine over for 10 seconds to clear out the cylinders, replace spark plugs and try and start it with NO throttle and see what happens. Sometimes that can indicate carb issues if it starts to fire with no throttle. Could indicate needle and seat again.

Good luck. Hope it's something simple.

 

[ernemats]

Talked to Terry today and he wants me to remove air filter and spray some gas into the carb . He doesn't think it is timing or valve problem. My grandson took both valve covers off and he said everything seemed to be working as it should he thought the spark looked good but seemed inconsistent at times . Too cold to mess with it now

 

[MossRoad]

Talked to Terry today and he wants me to remove air filter and spray some gas into the carb . He doesn't think it is timing or valve problem. My grandson took both valve covers off and he said everything seemed to be working as it should he thought the spark looked good but seemed inconsistent at times . Too cold to mess with it now

Yes, cold is hard on the fingers and easier to break something. Good luck.