Why Can't Someone Make a Good 12' Batwing Cutter?

[MMC]

On a good cutter, all 3 cutting decks don't turn the same rotation direction, so when you turn one way or the other, you may notice a poorer cut.

Mine cuts better when I make a turn, or circle a tree counter clockwise. The only difference would be the direction the blades are spinning.

I also try and not turn too sharp, as the main drive shaft gets more pressure on it from a sharp turn, than a gradual turn. Those CV joints and shafts are expensive, and I litterally slather the CV joint with grease daily to cut down that wear. Last one made it 11 years and was still tight.

X2 on the CV Joint. My Bush Hog 2815 gets pushed full after 8-12 hours operation. The other benefit is that the rear of my tractor(s) will never rust with all that grease slung on them...

 

[Hay Dude]

This is a great 12’ mower. I’ve had 3 different types of commercial Deere mowers and they have gone far above and beyond what I would expect. My CX-15 and a former MX-8 and a 390 offset flail.

And no, I am NOT a paid spokesman for Deere

I thought this one looked pretty nice, too.

 

[rockinbbar]

This is a great 12’ mower. I’ve had 3 different types of commercial Deere mowers and they have gone far above and beyond what I would expect. My CX-15 and a former MX-8 and a 390 offset flail.

And no, I am NOT a paid spokesman for Deere


View attachment 3510628


I thought this one looked pretty nice, too.

View attachment 3512540

They probably are real good cutters for lighter duty projects.

Looked at the JD awhile back, but it's light duty as well.

May end up taking anther look at the Bush Hog 12' because it has the drive lines and gear boxes to rate cutting 3" growth.

Interesting that my 12' Viper and the Bush Hog are the same frame and design. I think the difference is that the Viper has cheap Chinese gear boxes and hydraulic cylinders. Probably would have been better off with the Bush Hog than the Viper, but when I got the Viper, Bush Hog had suspended production on theirs.

 

[Hay Dude]

They probably are real good cutters for lighter duty projects.

Looked at the JD awhile back, but it's light duty as well.

According to Deere’s website, the “FC” cutters are good to 2” material. I can tell you first hand, their cutters are very conservatively rated. If they say it’ll handle 2”, it’s probably good to 3”, although I wouldn’t advise anyone to use a machine beyond it’s rated capacity.

https://www.deere.com/en/cutters-shredders/rotary-cutters/#flex

May end up taking anther look at the Bush Hog 12' because it has the drive lines and gear boxes to rate cutting 3" growth.

Interesting that my 12' Viper and the Bush Hog are the same frame and design. I think the difference is that the Viper has cheap Chinese gear boxes and hydraulic cylinders. Probably would have been better off with the Bush Hog than the Viper, but when I got the Viper, Bush Hog had suspended production on theirs.

I think all gear boxes are “cheap Chinese”. I know my Woods gear boxes and Deere gearboxes are made in China. Last Bush Hog I looked at had Chinese gear boxes, too.
I haven’t seen an American made gearbox in decades, but that may have changed.

My CX-15 is rated to 4” with standard blades, but I rarely try to cut 4” material with it. Mostly grass and brush.

Another option is to order their heavy-duty FC-10R model with a deleted wing. It’s only 10’, but it’ll be extremely heavy built. It’ll cut up to 5” material with a high impact blade, but if you do that with your tractor, you’ll cook your PTO pretty fast.

https://www.deere.com/en/cutters-shredders/rotary-cutters/fc10r-rotary-cutter/

These mowers are sick. They will cut just about anything.

You need a real heavy duty cast iron PTO box to do consistent heavy 3-5” brush cutting. Those are small trees and they put a huge shock load on your PTO.

 

[rockinbbar]

According to Deere’s website, the “FC” cutters are good to 2” material. I can tell you first hand, their cutters are very conservatively rated. If they say it’ll handle 2”, it’s probably good to 3”, although I wouldn’t advise anyone to use a machine beyond it’s rated capacity.

https://www.deere.com/en/cutters-shredders/rotary-cutters/#flex

I think all gear boxes are “cheap Chinese”. I know my Woods gear boxes and Deere gearboxes are made in China. Last Bush Hog I looked at had Chinese gear boxes, too.
I haven’t seen an American made gearbox in decades, but that may have changed.

My CX-15 is rated to 4” with standard blades, but I rarely try to cut 4” material with it. Mostly grass and brush.

Another option is to order their heavy-duty FC-10R model with a deleted wing. It’s only 10’, but it’ll be extremely heavy built. It’ll cut up to 5” material with a high impact blade, but if you do that with your tractor, you’ll cook your PTO pretty fast.

https://www.deere.com/en/cutters-shredders/rotary-cutters/fc10r-rotary-cutter/

You need a real heavy duty cast iron PTO box to do consistent heavy 3-5” brush cutting. Those are small trees and they put a huge shock load on your PTO.

Yeah, I probably should have said "beefier" gear boxes. They are probably all China now.

I know those little round ones they have on the Viper 12' are not very good. Replaced both of wings and the splitter gear box under warranty. Both wing cylinders have been replaced twice. Deck cylinder is showing some blow by now too.

Not cutting very much in the way of brush with it, maybe the occasional 2 inch or smaller. But I do use lots of hours worth.

Not had any trouble with the PTO's on either tractor, but they are pretty HD models, and not weekend specials that a lot of tractors are now.

I'm pretty much a stickler for a quality tractor. They can keep all the "economy" model tractors... even the JD E series and the New Holland and Case Workmaster class tractors.

 

[Brown Dog]

idk about these new JD model #’s but the old MX & HX series had a good bit slower BTS than the Bush Hog cutters.
My BH 2815 with massive output shafts cuts lika champ

 

[rockinbbar]

idk about these new JD model #’s but the old MX & HX series had a good bit slower BTS than the Bush Hog cutters.
My BH 2815 with massive output shafts cuts lika champ

Yessir! Those are excellent cutters!

 

[RayIN]

Today I picked up a Indiana auto & RV advertising magazine. It has an 11' batwing Bush Hog in it for sale. Wouldn't you know it, I cannot find it again tonight.
I think it was somewhere in MI. I wonder if it can be found easier on their website?

 

[Hay Dude]

idk about these new JD model #’s but the old MX & HX series had a good bit slower BTS than the Bush Hog cutters.
My BH 2815 with massive output shafts cuts lika champ

Never had a minutes trouble with my CX-15. cuts anything I throw at it. Bought mine in 2016 and it’s paid for itself 20 times over.
One of the best unknown features about the Deeres are the “dual deck” design. All the rock dents are absorbed by the bottom deck. Keeps the upper deck and the mower looking great for a lot longer than single deck mowers.
I’m looking for another!

 

[EddieWalker]

I was thinking about the rating for what size material it can cut, and how people here are commenting that they are not cutting anything that size.
The reason I was thinking this was because I was out mowing my pasture and when I got close to a tree, I mowed over a branch on the ground that was hidden by the grass. That branch was at least 2 inches thick, and the only reason I know it was there, was from the sound of my blades breaking it up into smaller branches!!

 

[rockinbbar]

I was thinking about the rating for what size material it can cut, and how people here are commenting that they are not cutting anything that size.
The reason I was thinking this was because I was out mowing my pasture and when I got close to a tree, I mowed over a branch on the ground that was hidden by the grass. That branch was at least 2 inches thick, and the only reason I know it was there, was from the sound of my blades breaking it up into smaller branches!!

Really, I don't put much stock into what a cutter is rated for, other than to scale how heavy duty a cutter is. If a cutter is rated at 4.5" the company must have decent faith it's pretty heavy duty.

If the cutter is rated at 1.5", then it'll do okay to mow your lawn with.. maybe. If you don't have real thick grass.

Most of what I shred is dense growth, rather than big brushy growth, but I can have some of both. You get into a big mesquite that has 8 trunks of 2", and they are thick, I wouldn't want a cutter rated small.

Dense growth typical of my projects.

 

[hayden]

One thing to consider is that a number of manufacturers have multiple "grades" of mowers. Landpride offers a 3712 and a 2512, with the 3712 being 1200lbs heavier, thicker deck and skirt, and higher HP rating on the spindle gears boxes. The same is true for Bush Hog. When comparing brands, you need to be sure which models you are comparing.

 

[Hay Dude]

I was thinking about the rating for what size material it can cut, and how people here are commenting that they are not cutting anything that size.
The reason I was thinking this was because I was out mowing my pasture and when I got close to a tree, I mowed over a branch on the ground that was hidden by the grass. That branch was at least 2 inches thick, and the only reason I know it was there, was from the sound of my blades breaking it up into smaller branches!!

When thinking about mowing a tree 4-5” thick at the base, you gotta consider that the tree will probably put up more of a fight than it’s worth, just trying to push it over. I routinely mow brush/small trees 2-3” thick, but once they get thicker than that, you might find the mower will not be able to push it over.
So while your mowers gearboxes and shafts and your tractor PTO might handle it, just pushing over a 4” diameter tree on a regular basis to try to cut it up may start having a negative impact on the mower’s decks, rear beam, suspension, etc.

 

[Hay Dude]

Here’s some heavy crap I got into with my Woods Batwing a while ago.

15’ tall. Definitely 3” plus. Once I got beyond this size, I would typically rent a tracked skiddy with a mulcher.
Why beat up a bat wing on heavy crap.

This was even nastier.
Did this with the CX-15
Swampy & heavy.

1

 

[MMC]

Here’s some heavy crap I got into with my Woods Batwing a while ago.

15’ tall. Definitely 3” plus. Once I got beyond this size, I would typically rent a tracked skiddy with a mulcher.
Why beat up a bat wing on heavy crap.

View attachment 3518429

This was even nastier.
Did this with the CX-15
Swampy & heavy.

View attachment 3518431
1

Well, maybe good to summarize... So, offbrands may be a bit suspect in their advertisements.

Each major manufacturer offers different grades of mowers in the same, well, widths.

What you might cut, according to the manufacturer's rating, is not really what you should cut. Meaning, how much driveline shock do you really want your tractor and cutter to experience?

Gearboxes, are almost always made in China now. Hopefully to American standards.

Practically speaking though, I run a Bush Hog 2815. I previously had a 2615. Both excellent machines. The 2615 had American gearboxes, the 2815, Chinese. After years of good maintenance and hard service the 2815 has no major problems with the driveline and gearboxes.

To HayDude's point, the double deck of the 2815 is...nice. No dents and no support ribs on the deck to collect water and rust.

As to the "rating," I have no real understanding of what that means. My 2815 is rated for 4 inch stuff. Really? Yep, I've cut that, but what does that metric mean? A lot of difference between 4" pine and 4" hickory or hedgeapple. And how many of those cuts per foot as you advance?

So, here's what I think, but have only operational experience to back up. Heavy machines are...better, if you have the tractor to run them. Brand names are generally better in their machine quality and parts.

If you want to run through scrub and small trees, make sure your slip clutches are fully operational first. Then, run at full PTO speed for your tractor's RPM. The inertia from all that metal mass will slice through heavy stuff. If you can't run at that rated RPM, slow down until you can. The shocks to your driveline are like a sledgehammer each time at lower speeds.

I have, and do those kinds of operations. But, I do it cautiously and with a certain amount of planning. You are beginning to test your tractor's PTO clutches, your cutter's gearboxes, drivelines, and everything in between. And grease the devil out of your shafts and CV joints as per your operator's manual.

That said, running that way, with the equipment described, I have never had a driveline failure in decades of operation, and I have never babied my equipment.

So, brand name equipment, heavy cutters, high operational RPMs would be my advice.

Your opinions, folks?

 

[rockinbbar]

Well, maybe good to summarize... So, offbrands may be a bit suspect in their advertisements.

Each major manufacturer offers different grades of mowers in the same, well, widths.

What you might cut, according to the manufacturer's rating, is not really what you should cut. Meaning, how much driveline shock do you really want your tractor and cutter to experience?

Gearboxes, are almost always made in China now. Hopefully to American standards.

Practically speaking though, I run a Bush Hog 2815. I previously had a 2615. Both excellent machines. The 2615 had American gearboxes, the 2815, Chinese. After years of good maintenance and hard service the 2815 has no major problems with the driveline and gearboxes.

To HayDude's point, the double deck of the 2815 is...nice. No dents and no support ribs on the deck to collect water and rust.

As to the "rating," I have no real understanding of what that means. My 2815 is rated for 4 inch stuff. Really? Yep, I've cut that, but what does that metric mean? A lot of difference between 4" pine and 4" hickory or hedgeapple. And how many of those cuts per foot as you advance?

So, here's what I think, but have only operational experience to back up. Heavy machines are...better, if you have the tractor to run them. Brand names are generally better in their machine quality and parts.

If you want to run through scrub and small trees, make sure your slip clutches are fully operational first. Then, run at full PTO speed for your tractor's RPM. The inertia from all that metal mass will slice through heavy stuff. If you can't run at that rated RPM, slow down until you can. The shocks to your driveline are like a sledgehammer each time at lower speeds.

I have, and do those kinds of operations. But, I do it cautiously and with a certain amount of planning. You are beginning to test your tractor's PTO clutches, your cutter's gearboxes, drivelines, and everything in between. And grease the devil out of your shafts and CV joints as per your operator's manual.

That said, running that way, with the equipment described, I have never had a driveline failure in decades of operation, and I have never babied my equipment.

So, brand name equipment, heavy cutters, high operational RPMs would be my advice.

Your opinions, folks?

I think you have a very good idea of how it's done!

Recently, I traded my old Woods BW180XHD in on a new Woods 15.72... While the similarities of the basics are the same, I'm REALLY impressed with the improvements to the whole re-design.

When I brought my old one in to trade it in, the dealer asked how old the blades were on it. I told him 3 years... He was shocked! He said they look like new, and asked what my secret is to keeping blades looking and working like that.

I told him to avoid "ground strikes" and keep the wings level.

When traded in, my "old" cutter brought a premium because it was well cared for, and maintained. Got it 11 years ago for $16k, and got $11k trade in. And believe me when I say that cutter had seen it all.

The old...

3 year old blades with 12-1500 hours on them cutting overgrown, brushy pastures.

Overall condition of the old cutter.

And the new! (with lots of improvements to design) I really look forward to putting this new cutter through it's paces with the upcoming season of cutting!

 

[rockinbbar]

Now... If ONLY I could get a 12' cutter like that 15.72 Woods!



I know they cater that width of cutter to lower horsepower tractors that probably don't see many hours use in a year's time. But I sincerely think that a genuine HD 12' cutter would find a home in many places.

 

[Hay Dude]

I was super close to buying a used CX-20 at a local dealer back in February. Most of us that do custom mowing run 15’s, but I have some big enough fields that a 20’ is starting to look profitable. That one sold before I could get out of my chair.
Love the CX series, so I am going to keep looking.

I envision myself retiring into just field mowing and brush clearing someday, when I can no longer keep up the rigors of hay at this scale.

With plenty of field mowing contracts, the future looks great.

 

[Hay Dude]

Now... If ONLY I could get a 12' cutter like that 15.72 Woods!



I know they cater that width of cutter to lower horsepower tractors that probably don't see many hours use in a year's time. But I sincerely think that a genuine HD 12' cutter would find a home in many places.

I’m not sure there’s enough difference between a 12 and a 15 that its worth it. I’d just hit a 15 and be done.
My 15’ feels small to me sometimes. Especially over 40 acres. Then I wished I had a 15 and a 20.
It’ll happen someday.

 

[rockinbbar]

I’m not sure there’s enough difference between a 12 and a 15 that its worth it. I’d just hit a 15 and be done.
My 15’ feels small to me sometimes. Especially over 40 acres. Then I wished I had a 15 and a 20.
It’ll happen someday.

There's a huge difference in my 15 and 12 for what I use them for.

The 15, I use on very large ranches that have quite a bit of open areas, and not many tight spots between trees I have to shred around.

The 12' cuts in tighter spots much easier, and I can cut a lot more, and leave a lot less uncut. It turns sharper by nature, and I can get closer to structures, fence corners, etc.

Cutting very large ranches with my 15' is enough, width wise. If you run a 20' cutter, you'd better have lots of land, and it better be very smooth, as those 20's get lots of weight out on those wings, and flopping around doesn't do the cutter much good on rough pastures. You also get LOTS of ground strikes with a 20'. The only 20's I see down here are large farms that shred the stalks after harvesting corn or milo, on level farm land.

By the same token, I can use my 12' on very rough, uneven projects, and very rarely get a ground strike, as it rolls with the terrain much better, both in towing pivoting on uneven ground, and ground strikes on the wing blades, because the shorter wings follow uneven terrain much better than the 15'.

As an example, I can drive over the terraces on ranches that have them for runoff control, and cut the pasture any way I want to. The 12' follows the tractor over ups and downs much better because it's shorter, lengthwise. With the 15', a sharp up/down crossing a terrace causes it to high center on the terrace, and the blades to strike the top of the terrace... so I have to drive up onto the terrace and cut the top of it, following the contour.

For my purposes, you couldn't give me a 20'. Well, you could, but I'd sell it soon after.