Why Can't Someone Make a Good 12' Batwing Cutter?

[Slowpoke Slim]

That's a lot of weight to be flopping around in less than smooth pasture conditions. Most Cat1 and many Cat2 3pt systems just won't take the beating.

I agree. Even if I had a tractor big enough to lift it, I wouldn't want to. That's way too much to be hanging from a 3 pt, both in total weight and center of weight being so far back from the hitch.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

My dealer that sells Modern Ag cutters also sells Rhino cutters.

They look interesting, but when you look at the specs, it's only rated to cut 1.5 inch thick brush.

VERY light duty cutter.

My Viper is rated at 3"... Even though I don't cut much brush with it, the cut capacity is related to how strong the gear boxes and drive lines are. Or should be.

Another thing I look at in the specs is the blade tip speed. The higher, the better.

I'm surprised the Rhino Ag is only rated for 1.5" of cut. But, you're correct, that is what they spec it for.

I've watched several Tractor Time with Tim videos with the 10' version (same hardware, just narrower) and he'd cut 3"-4" stuff on a regular basis. I think he cut one over 5" in one video with no harm to the cutter.

I'm planning to ad the 10' Rhino Ag to my cutting business once I get up and running again.

 

[rockinbbar]

I'm surprised the Rhino Ag is only rated for 1.5" of cut. But, you're correct, that is what they spec it for.

I've watched several Tractor Time with Tim videos with the 10' version (same hardware, just narrower) and he'd cut 3"-4" stuff on a regular basis. I think he cut one over 5" in one video with no harm to the cutter.

I'm planning to ad the 10' Rhino Ag to my cutting business once I get up and running again.

Lots of folks buy lighter duty cutters down here in the brush country I live in, and just thrash them out cutting thick brush. I've had at least a couple of dealers tell me they know the customers buy those and use them far beyond the capacity because they are less expensive, and once the gear box warranty runs out, they just get another.

While I don't cut thick stuff that's out of spec for my 12' cutter, I do run it lots of hours.

The Viper I'm running now, I bought in 2020. That particular machine probably has 7-800 hours on it now.

That's not a lot of hours compared to the heavier duty Woods, Bush Hog, or Rhino 15' cutters that seem to last at least a couple of decades if properly maintained.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Lots of folks buy lighter duty cutters down here in the brush country I live in, and just thrash them out cutting thick brush. I've had at least a couple of dealers tell me they know the customers buy those and use them far beyond the capacity because they are less expensive, and once the gear box warranty runs out, they just get another.

While I don't cut thick stuff that's out of spec for my 12' cutter, I do run it lots of hours.

The Viper I'm running now, I bought in 2020. That particular machine probably has 7-800 hours on it now.

That's not a lot of hours compared to the heavier duty Woods, Bush Hog, or Rhino 15' cutters that seem to last at least a couple of decades if properly maintained.

I have cut stuff with my light duty 6' cutter that would horrify some folks. Lol. (It's taken more of a beating from hidden rocks and objects "forgotten" in the tall grass than from size of materials cut). So I get what you're saying. But specifically with the Rhino Ag, since you've had a chance to see them side by side at your dealer, do you think they are under spec'd, or are they really that light weight? Interested in your opinions there.

I've been of the opinion that they are heavier duty than they are spec'd for, but that is only from watching videos of the 10' and 12' cutters in operation (the 10' and 12' are identical in all respects except they just narrowed the deck and wings and put on shorter blades on the 10').

I'm drawn to the 10' cutter as thinking that size would best fit my "usual" customer sites (gate access, etc) and that my tractor would be able to run it and tow it well with my hp and chassis weight.

 

[rockinbbar]

I have cut stuff with my light duty 6' cutter that would horrify some folks. Lol. (It's taken more of a beating from hidden rocks and objects "forgotten" in the tall grass than from size of materials cut). So I get what you're saying. But specifically with the Rhino Ag, since you've had a chance to see them side by side at your dealer, do you think they are under spec'd, or are they really that light weight? Interested in your opinions there.

I've been of the opinion that they are heavier duty than they are spec'd for, but that is only from watching videos of the 10' and 12' cutters in operation (the 10' and 12' are identical in all respects except they just narrowed the deck and wings and put on shorter blades on the 10').

I'm drawn to the 10' cutter as thinking that size would best fit my "usual" customer sites (gate access, etc) and that my tractor would be able to run it and tow it well with my hp and chassis weight.

Thanks for asking!

In my own opinion, I think the only thing the specs do is give you an idea as to how sturdy the gear boxes and drive lines are.

That "cut rating" for 2" or 4" or whatever is a very flawed system that should be done away with, in my opinion.

Say you have a cutter rated for 2"... That means it should be able to cut brush 2" in diameter reliably, and throughout it's lifetime. Right?

BUT... There's a big difference in running over and cutting a single bush that's 2" in diameter, and driving the full 12' deck into very thick 2" brush where the entire cutter is engaged in trying to cut multiple 2" bushes at the same time. That puts a big test on the entire cutter, as well as the PTO horsepower.

In very thick conditions light duty gear boxes can fail, as well as having drivelines twist, or U joints break.

It doesn't have to be brush either. You engage 2 foot high thick bahia grass, and even though there may be no brush at all, the entire cutter and your PTO is having to deal with massive increases in work load.

So I just use the rating as a guideline as to how heavy duty the manufacturer "thinks" their equipment is.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

are the bolts vibrating loose or stretching. One takes a squirt gun to fix. The other takes a stronger bolt

Slinging oil. Maybe an over filling issue or incorrectly spec'd oil

 

[EddieWalker]

My only experience with 12 foot batwings is the Titan 1912 that I bought a year and a half ago from my dealer after getting my Massey Ferguson. At 70 HP, I felt that 12 foot was a good size for the tractor. After buying it, Titan was forced to change their name because there was another company with the same name in the same state that sold similar products. Now they are called Ironcraft.

I looked at some used batwings that where stupid expensive for the amount of wear on them. At that time, it was very hard to find a new 12 foot batwing of any brand in stock anywhere near me. The Landpride 12 foot was very pricey, very light duty, and the used ones I saw where just about falling apart. I like Landpride, but those mowers looked really bad. I looked a couple used Modern 12 foot cutters that where rusting out. I got the impressing that the galvanized finish wasn't very thick and that it wears off fairly quickly. Rhino really impressed me, but they where almost $20,000 for new and I never saw a used one. The few Woods that I saw where used, but in decent shape, but they wanted $15,000 for used!!!!

I paid $13,000 for mine brand new. $3,000 down and $181 a month that I'm paying off with bigger payments every month.

It only has one hose from the remotes. That hose lifts the wheels and then lifts the wings. When I get to where I want to be, I just release the pressure and it slowly lowers down the the mowing position. There are some aluminum blocks that go into the lever for the wheels that you install to get the mowing height where you want it. In my opinion, mowing quality is fantastic. It cuts everything I've been able to drive over. Some stuff is over my hood, other stuff is close, and maybe over it's 2 inch rating. On pasture grass, it's fast with super nice results.

I'm still on my original blades, which have started getting some chips breaking out of them. I might need new blades next year, or the next. Now that I have my place pretty much under control for the first time since buying it, the wear and tear on the blades will be less.

My only issue with it has been that one of the gear boxes on the Right side wing came loose. The bolts where not tight enough from the factory and it started shaking around on my, which ruined the threads on the bolts. I replaced them with Grade 8 bolts, crown plastic locking nuts and loctite. It was a pain to do by myself since you can only use wrenches to hold the bolts, and it's impossible to hold onto them from both sides because of the deck being in the way. I had to wedge one wrench into position and turn the other. Since space is so limited, I could only turn an eighth of the way at a time. Most of the time the other wrench would fall off. It took me two days to get the four bolts on and tight, but that was probably a total of 6 hours work. I just got frustrated after a few hours the first day and quit when I had two of them done. Since then, no issues at all.

For the money, I think it was a good deal. So far, I think it's a good mower. If I had more money, I might of bought the Rhino.

 

[rockinbbar]

are the bolts vibrating loose or stretching. One takes a squirt gun to fix. The other takes a stronger bolt

Slinging oil. Maybe an over filling issue or incorrectly spec'd oil

Yes. My guess is both... On one side now, it's getting new bolts and double nutted.

They got to where they wouldn't tighten, and I use a long cheater. It still vibrated so badly it wore the splines on the stump jumper to the point of needing a new one... Those are only about $600 each.

The gear oil coming out the vent nut was explained to me by the factory folks as it is a symptom of the direction the gears are turning inside the box. The Viper wing boxes spin opposite directions, although the utilize they same gear box housing, so the location of the vent nut has to do with oil splashing through the vent as it's running. But really both sides sling oil.

For the last bit of my season, I talked with the factory guy and asked if I thickened the oil by running some grease from my grease gun in the box would help. I got his blessings, and it did help. So I'm going to go with corn head grease in the gear boxes, rather than the standard 80wt gear oil. Lots of folks are going to corn head grease ( 0/0) to keep in their shredder gear boxes now.

Mine weren't overfilled. But sometimes I put a tad more in if I had a long hot day ahead of me. My main concern was keeping the gear boxes running with lubrication, despite the mess it made on the wings.

 

[rockinbbar]

My only experience with 12 foot batwings is the Titan 1912 that I bought a year and a half ago from my dealer after getting my Massey Ferguson. At 70 HP, I felt that 12 foot was a good size for the tractor. After buying it, Titan was forced to change their name because there was another company with the same name in the same state that sold similar products. Now they are called Ironcraft.

I looked at some used batwings that where stupid expensive for the amount of wear on them. At that time, it was very hard to find a new 12 foot batwing of any brand in stock anywhere near me. The Landpride 12 foot was very pricey, very light duty, and the used ones I saw where just about falling apart. I like Landpride, but those mowers looked really bad. I looked a couple used Modern 12 foot cutters that where rusting out. I got the impressing that the galvanized finish wasn't very thick and that it wears off fairly quickly. Rhino really impressed me, but they where almost $20,000 for new and I never saw a used one. The few Woods that I saw where used, but in decent shape, but they wanted $15,000 for used!!!!

I paid $13,000 for mine brand new. $3,000 down and $181 a month that I'm paying off with bigger payments every month.

It only has one hose from the remotes. That hose lifts the wheels and then lifts the wings. When I get to where I want to be, I just release the pressure and it slowly lowers down the the mowing position. There are some aluminum blocks that go into the lever for the wheels that you install to get the mowing height where you want it. In my opinion, mowing quality is fantastic. It cuts everything I've been able to drive over. Some stuff is over my hood, other stuff is close, and maybe over it's 2 inch rating. On pasture grass, it's fast with super nice results.

I'm still on my original blades, which have started getting some chips breaking out of them. I might need new blades next year, or the next. Now that I have my place pretty much under control for the first time since buying it, the wear and tear on the blades will be less.

My only issue with it has been that one of the gear boxes on the Right side wing came loose. The bolts where not tight enough from the factory and it started shaking around on my, which ruined the threads on the bolts. I replaced them with Grade 8 bolts, crown plastic locking nuts and loctite. It was a pain to do by myself since you can only use wrenches to hold the bolts, and it's impossible to hold onto them from both sides because of the deck being in the way. I had to wedge one wrench into position and turn the other. Since space is so limited, I could only turn an eighth of the way at a time. Most of the time the other wrench would fall off. It took me two days to get the four bolts on and tight, but that was probably a total of 6 hours work. I just got frustrated after a few hours the first day and quit when I had two of them done. Since then, no issues at all.

For the money, I think it was a good deal. So far, I think it's a good mower. If I had more money, I might of bought the Rhino.

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Eddie, mine came the same way, but I separated the hoses and fitted the wings with their own hose and remote fitting so that I could run them independantly.

Sometimes I have need to raise the deck as the cutter is running, and don't need the wings to raise. Like crossing an obstacle or road.

I know they say you can run the batwing cutters in the upright position, but I'd sure hate to do it much, as it would be much harder on the U joints involved. I like to keep all those drivelines as straight and level as possible.

If I have to raise the wings when cutting when going through a gate or something, I shut the shredder off, raise the wings then restart it after I let the wings back down.

 

[Williy]

Just purchase a new or used unit and then install the heaver
gear box should solve the problem??????

willy