Kubota utility tractors - available backhoes?

[FlyFishn]

Hi. We're looking at tractor options and I'm curious if anyone knows if a backhoe attachment is available for the M4?

We ended up with an International 444 loader tractor earlier (42hp machine, 2wd), however at the time we were considering an LX3520HSDC. After running the 444 it is apparent we need a bigger machine. We have a 2 bottom Dearborn plow and an 8ft disk. The 444 is just adequate with a lot of wheel slip and feathering the 3pt up and down running them.

That said, we're eyeballing the MX's and M4's. Everything I see from the MX down to the very small sub-compacts have backhoe options. I wouldn't personally spec a tractor based on having that, but my better half sees that as adding to the versatility in a "one machine to do it all". I get her point, but my hunch is a separate mini excavator is probably a better option - a dedicated machine, whereas a tractor is a general all around the farm machine. And from an investment perspective - what we absolutely need is a tractor, not a digger = better use of the tied up funds. That isn't to say a digger wouldn't be very handy... but a tractor can do work most days. A digger is only for specific spread out tasks.

 

[murse72]

yes there is m4011

 

[Carl_NH]

That's a nice looking BH Murse - I like the ground clearance and attachment setup looks rugged.

As far as BH vs Mini - that is discussed many times here, and the consensus is get a used Mini for $20K or so that is 5-6000 pounds (3 Ton) and a tractor with FEL. You can get a chinese mini like the Rippa 22 (5K weight) for $24K and the 3.2 series (6500 lbs) for $27 new and they are nice machines with 2 speed drives. Then the smaller diesel minis new can be had fior $10K if you just want an occasional digger,

The biggest down side to Mini is covering large areas - they are slow and can't transport dirt or materials.

 

[big bubba]

don't have back hoe experience, etc, but given the investment of a back hoe alone, i would recommend purchasing as large a tractor as possible. at 1st glance, the MX series seems small (had MX5000 once). highly recommend jumping up to a utility M series unless you have to have hydrostat. but there lots of options for you, just go large as possible
weight & frame size will be your friend

 

[TMGT]

yes there is m4011 View attachment 3515984

Those are nice hoes, thats a Bradco 611B rebadged for Kubota. I have the earlier version on my L3240 and it does a very nice job, I'm sure it's even better on a heavier tractor.

 

[FlyFishn]

yes there is m4011 View attachment 3515984

That looks like an open station machine? We're interested in the cab machines.

As to the latter comment on tractor weight and size - right. Thats the issue with our tillage. I dont need to go huge though, just enough to get good power to the ground is all with what we have.

 

[5030]

Then you want a tractor with draft control. Draft control will pull the ground engaging implement up out of the ground if the wheels start loosing traction.

I use mine all the time for plowing and discing but you have to know how to set it. Both my M's came with it.

 

[5030]

Those are nice hoes, thats a Bradco 611B rebadged for Kubota. I have the earlier version on my L3240 and it does a very nice job, I'm sure it's even better on a heavier tractor.

Care to substantiate that? Reason I say that is I work at a Kubota dealer part time and all of our BH attachements are coming out of Kubota in Georgia. Never seen any Bradco labelling on any of them, anywhere.

 

[murse72]

i decided to go with a back hoe on the tractor instead of a small track hoe is be cause i have 61 acres and will inherit another 50 that joins mine. it would take a while to track that mini around the place. i already had a tractor also. The backhoe with the hydraulic thumb and a grapple in the front is very handy. i have only two places on my place that is open enough to burn stuff. Once you rip stuff out of the ground you can quickly carry it to a burn pile. I have the 8 sp which has the lower flow pump but it works just fine for me. Outriggers down and loader on the ground that backhoe will dragging the tractor around very easily if you are not careful

 

[murse72]

also if you wanted the hydraulic thumb you will end up with the 18 inch bucket. it is what lines up with the thumb.

 

[TMGT]

Care to substantiate that? Reason I say that is I work at a Kubota dealer part time and all of our BH attachements are coming out of Kubota in Georgia. Never seen any Bradco labelling on any of them, anywhere.

They won't be labeled Bradco, or now Paladin. The only ones I'm aware of are the M4011 which is newer and based on the 611B and M4711 which is older and based on the 611.

If you have ever seen a Bradco/Paladin 611 backhoe, then you would know.

The older 3pt Kubota backhoes were also make by someone else. As far as I know, all the newer model specific BH's are made by Kubota Industrial Equipment (KIE)

 

[TMGT]

also if you wanted the hydraulic thumb you will end up with the 18 inch bucket. it is what lines up with the thumb.

I have the 18" and 24" buckets, being that mine was a M4711 it didn't have provisions for a factory thumb so I had to make my own. Still finishing a few details on it but otherwise works pretty good. I made it work with both buckets which took some effort.

 

[5030]

Not something I've ever had the inclination to own in the first place. Much less costly and easier for me to rent or borrow a mini-ex for a day and all i'm out is fuel and possibly grease and if I rent it from the local rental place, it's 500 bucks, all day. Delivered full of fuel and picked up in the evening. I own a lot of implements, boyh powered and not but one implement I'd never own is a BH attachment.

 

[5030]

I might add that the Kubota dealer where I work (play at) part time, the owner who is also the salesperson, discourages potential customers from buying a backhow for their newely ordered units.

His reasoning is simply that most owners buy a BH and then remove it from the tractor and it sits in the corner of the garage or outside tarped up and not used much, if any and they are always a PITA to install anyway.

If you had a use for one a lot and left it on the tractor most times, then he can see it and so can I, but in most cases, that isn't the case, so it sits unused, abd no, he don't rent mini-ex's either.

Problem with a BH is, it's an expensive implement with limited scope use, requires a dedicated subframe so as to not compromise the tractor frame and severely limits the use of the 3PH and the subframe limits ground clearance as well. He sells a pile of Kubota's and if the customer insists, he sells them a BF as well, but always tries to discourage that purchase if possible.

 

[TMGT]

I might add that the Kubota dealer where I work (play at) part time, the owner who is also the salesperson, discourages potential customers from buying a backhow for their newely ordered units.

His reasoning is simply that most owners buy a BH and then remove it from the tractor and it sits in the corner of the garage or outside tarped up and not used much, if any and they are always a PITA to install anyway.

If you had a use for one a lot and left it on the tractor most times, then he can see it and so can I, but in most cases, that isn't the case, so it sits unused, abd no, he don't rent mini-ex's either.

Problem with a BH is, it's an expensive implement with limited scope use, requires a dedicated subframe so as to not compromise the tractor frame and severely limits the use of the 3PH and the subframe limits ground clearance as well. He sells a pile of Kubota's and if the customer insists, he sells them a BF as well, but always tries to discourage that purchase if possible.

Thats great it works for you, but doesn't work for everyone. My BH was less then 7 rentals and I have it when I need it, I've used it more then 7 times so I guess it has paid for itself.

Ground clearance is the same, and mounting/dismounting takes less than 10 minutes, so I wouldn't call it difficult.

Would a mini ex be nice? Sure, but it's another piece of expensive equipment to buy and maintain that I can't justify with my usage.

 

[FlyFishn]

I might add that the Kubota dealer where I work (play at) part time, the owner who is also the salesperson, discourages potential customers from buying a backhow for their newely ordered units.

His reasoning is simply that most owners buy a BH and then remove it from the tractor and it sits in the corner of the garage or outside tarped up and not used much, if any and they are always a PITA to install anyway.

If you had a use for one a lot and left it on the tractor most times, then he can see it and so can I, but in most cases, that isn't the case, so it sits unused, abd no, he don't rent mini-ex's either.

Problem with a BH is, it's an expensive implement with limited scope use, requires a dedicated subframe so as to not compromise the tractor frame and severely limits the use of the 3PH and the subframe limits ground clearance as well. He sells a pile of Kubota's and if the customer insists, he sells them a BF as well, but always tries to discourage that purchase if possible.

This is good info. I have experience in the ag equipment industry from some years back also and am very familiar with what you are describing in that the backhoes "aren't normal attachments". I do believe you have to completely remove the 3pts to get the sub frame you speak of to mount. That part doesn't bother me, but what does is the rest of it. I've never personally mounted/dismounted a hoe, but I can imagine it is both tedious and delicate to get things to line up. And with the weight of them that could be a challenge.

And you're 100% correct - limited use implement. We'd be running the 3pt most of the time - regular maintenance brush hogging/mowing mostly, then tillage in the fall/spring unless we open ground and maintain it.

You know what - someone already brought up the issue between a mini ex and tractor beings the transport speed of the tractor can be a big advantage. I can see that. What thoughts do any of you have on maybe pairing a loader and backhoe on a much smaller tractor for digging purposes? The thought here is we need a larger "tractor" (to use as a "tractor") = I don't want to lock it up with a digger. If we confined that use to another machine = much smaller tractor - its there for digging.

The drawback I can see is the smaller the machine the more limited its abilities. By the time we get through those options to set a machine up in that way we may be better off with a used mini ex - and suck up the transport speed penalty, or maybe just transport on our trailer when needed and have both machines out there - ex and tractor. Which the tractor would be loading most of the time, anyway.

 

[5030]

Every situation is different and what I'm alluding to is the average buyer who somehow thinks a backhoe is a necessary option and then comes to the realization that it was expensive and just sits unused in the corner of the barn or taarped up outside and in some cases, just sitting in the weeds.

When we sell a new unit, for some reason, new buyers think that a BH is necessary when it isn't.

I do have to include the fact that for a while, the Kubota BH units we were getting in, the pivot bosses were misaligned in the weldments and I got to fix a couple of them in my shop. The BH's don't come completely assembled either, They come strapped to a skid and flat so the dipper sticks aren't attached to the booms. While I didn't get the job of assembling them, other employees did and a few of them could not be assembled due to the misaligned bosses welded into dipper stick's. I got to remedy that in my shop and I got to charge my dealer for the time and materials involved and I presume he back charged Kubota as well. I also suspect that was cheaper than sending them back for replacement. When we get in new tractors, all the smaller ones come in, in metal (angle iron) shipping 'crates' with no wheels attached and / pr no fliods in them either. All part of the pre prep delivery scenario and Kubota always wants the 'shipping frames' returned to Georgia. Not the wood pallets however, just the metal frames.

Far as Kubota hay tools, the round bailers come in with no wheels or tires attached and some interesting small metal wheels on the axles and Kubota wants them back as well. I believe they do that simply because round balers would be too tall with the tires mounted to be under the 13'6" limit for road transportation on a conventional flat bed trailer. Same kind of applies to the disc mowers and rotary rakes. The ship in on flat bed trucks but with the tongues removed so they will fit on a conventional flat bed trailer and not be oversized.

It's always less expensive to ship a not oversize load versus a permit load and when assembled completely, they would all be oversized loads.

I suspect that applies to every manufacturer, not just Kubota. The large Kubota tractors all come in completely assembled, tires and wheels attached, but they come in on drop deck trailers so as to be under 13'6" in height. Only the smaller Kubota tractors come in 'crated', minus the wheels and tires which come in the metal crates with the units.

I'm sure that any tractor manufacturer has figured out the packaging on units that keep them legal for delivery without having to resort to permit loads and the additional expense.

I do know the larger, made in Japan, tractors come into the United States i shipping containers and I presume the ones made in Italy also come the same way, into I presume Savannah, Georgia and are then trucked to Kubota's headquarters in Georgia. Built in ship costs adversely impact their bottom line, consequently, they have fine tuned the logistics.

 

[TMGT]

This is good info. I have experience in the ag equipment industry from some years back also and am very familiar with what you are describing in that the backhoes "aren't normal attachments". I do believe you have to completely remove the 3pts to get the sub frame you speak of to mount. That part doesn't bother me, but what does is the rest of it. I've never personally mounted/dismounted a hoe, but I can imagine it is both tedious and delicate to get things to line up. And with the weight of them that could be a challenge.

And you're 100% correct - limited use implement. We'd be running the 3pt most of the time - regular maintenance brush hogging/mowing mostly, then tillage in the fall/spring unless we open ground and maintain it.

You know what - someone already brought up the issue between a mini ex and tractor beings the transport speed of the tractor can be a big advantage. I can see that. What thoughts do any of you have on maybe pairing a loader and backhoe on a much smaller tractor for digging purposes? The thought here is we need a larger "tractor" (to use as a "tractor") = I don't want to lock it up with a digger. If we confined that use to another machine = much smaller tractor - its there for digging.

The drawback I can see is the smaller the machine the more limited its abilities. By the time we get through those options to set a machine up in that way we may be better off with a used mini ex - and suck up the transport speed penalty, or maybe just transport on our trailer when needed and have both machines out there - ex and tractor. Which the tractor would be loading most of the time, anyway.

My experience with mounting the Kubota BH is that its very simple, the most difficult part is taking the 3pt components off which isn't too bad on most models.

 

[rScotty]

It's worth mentioning that Kubota also makes a standard solution to the "backhoe or not" debate. Kubotas makes TLB models from 25 to 60 hp.

A TLB comes with the backhoe as the standard rear attachment so the 3pt hitch becomes the optional attachment instead of the other way around. Designing it that way makes it stonger, as well as quicker and easier to swap for the hoe & 3pt attachment.

To look at them, a TLB just looks like an overbuilt tractor without a cab, but with a wide 4 post canopy, They typically have a much stronger loader.

We have one. It's nice.

 

[DK35vince]

I like my tractor mounted backhoe.
Use mine all the time.
Paid for itself vs rental fees years ago.
I used mine today, had 2 stumps to dig out.
Took 10 minutes to install the backhoe, dug out stumps, 5 minutes to remove.
Had it for decades, available any time I want it, and works great