How do farmers make any money?

[Eagle1]

You can’t lose money forever, but some sure as hell have tried!

As long as you losses are mostly depreciation it is not fatal. If you run actual cash flow into the red it is never a good year. Had bad years but held on until I retired, managed to pay the place off. Now is just raise my own food and try to sell enough cattle to pay the feed bills. Most years it close.

 

[MossRoad]

Salary IS an expense and fully deductible in the right business structure. My corp was held in a trust and I was just the hired hand to run the operation.

At my last employer, we were our owner's landlord. They rented office space from us.

 

[Eagle1]

At my last employer, we were our owner's landlord. They rented office space from us.

Good on you.... lot of legal ways to play the game.

 

[MossRoad]

Anyone ever been to Fair Oaks Farm over in NW Indiana?

They milk around 36,000 cows three times per day, produce over 250,000 gallons of milk per day, birth 80-100 calves per day, and use digesters to convert the manure into methane that not only powers all of their electricity needs, it powers their AG equipment, and their fleet of semi's that deliver all of that milk. They also sell electricity back to the grid. They own around 30 square miles.

They send all the heifer calves to KY and TN to graze (better grazing ground) until they're ready to be bred. Then they artificially inseminate them. A month or so before they are ready to give birth, they bring them back to Indiana. They give birth and head off to the milking barn for the rest of their life.

Each barn has about 6000 cows. They are all RFID tagged. The cows decide if they want to be milked and walk themselves to the milking parlor. If they arrive too early, a gate sends them to the back of the line. If it's been long enough, it lets them through. They step on to a slowly turning 72 stall turntable, someone closes a gate behind them, disinfects their teats, and hooks up the milker. Every cow is monitored for milk production.

There's more. It's really fascinating. If you ever get the chance to go, do it.

The last time we were there, we were on a bus with a load of Wisconsin dairy farmers. The overwhelming comment was "I'm glad I retired when I did."

 

[MossRoad]

Good on you.... lot of legal ways to play the game.

It was good on them, not us. They owned around 25-30 newspapers, TV and radio stations. Yet they physically owned no property.

 

[ning]

You and I can own one, too....

Amazon.com

so at 1/64 scale that should have over 17hp, right?

 

[edgarrian]

That's exactly what they're doing on a 1000 acre solar farm here. Sheep farmer is pretty happy. Land owners are pretty happy.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/story/news/local/2024/12/03/sheep-flock-graze-in-honeysuckle-solar-farm-to-help-farmer-gunthorp/76424837007/

Wind farms were once popular. Here in Montgomery County Indiana it was nearly a done deal until there was a huge blow back. The project was booted to the disgust of several lawmakers here in the state. Soliday would be that law maker. Fast forward a few years and solar panels were on the docket. The push back was big on that as well. Fact is nobody wants there home to be surrounded by these projects. Its not farming. Its industrial sized power plants. Thats the biggest issue right now is that the they are zoned incorrectly. So if you are potential home buyer. You could be in a sticky situation. Not to mention these projects do not revitalize anything. There isn't more jobs being created. During the construction sure. But after that its a loss for creating jobs. Dual use for solar is hardly being used. Sure this guy is feeding his sheep but farmers are not planting corn, or beans between panels.

This is not a neighborly venture for farmers to pursue these projects. 30 years ago and beyond if you were going to build a hog farm building. Farmers would get the neighbors thoughts. That does not happen. I get its there property. One can do what they want most generally. But building projects that negatively effect property values is **** way to go about it

 

[MossRoad]

so at 1/64 scale that should have over 17hp, right?

 

[MossRoad]

Wind farms were once popular. Here in Montgomery County Indiana it was nearly a done deal until there was a huge blow back. The project was booted to the disgust of several lawmakers here in the state. Soliday would be that law maker. Fast forward a few years and solar panels were on the docket. The push back was big on that as well. Fact is nobody wants there home to be surrounded by these projects. Its not farming. Its industrial sized power plants. Thats the biggest issue right now is that the they are zoned incorrectly. So if you are potential home buyer. You could be in a sticky situation. Not to mention these projects do not revitalize anything. There isn't more jobs being created. During the construction sure. But after that its a loss for creating jobs. Dual use for solar is hardly being used. Sure this guy is feeding his sheep but farmers are not planting corn, or beans between panels.

This is not a neighborly venture for farmers to pursue these projects. 30 years ago and beyond if you were going to build a hog farm building. Farmers would get the neighbors thoughts. That does not happen. I get its there property. One can do what they want most generally. But building projects that negatively effect property values is **** way to go about it

I'll bet those same farmers didn't want their view spoiled by those subdivisions.

 

[OzarkChris]

You are one of the 10%.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I am under the impression that only Row Croppers (oh and Green energy, if you call that farming) get subsidized. So, if that is correct, are you saying that there are only 10% of the farmers out there that produce critters? e.g., Beef, Pork, Poultry, etc? What about feed that is other than corn or other grains, e.g., hay, alfalfa, etc? Tree Farmers? I could probably think of more.

 

[Gator6x4]

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I am under the impression that only Row Croppers (oh and Green energy, if you call that farming) get subsidized. So, if that is correct, are you saying that there are only 10% of the farmers out there that produce critters? e.g., Beef, Pork, Poultry, etc? What about feed that is other than corn or other grains, e.g., hay, alfalfa, etc? Tree Farmers? I could probably think of more.

I personally think 72 billion is an awful lot of subsidies. Of course I am also aware others will think otherwise.

USDA livestock subsidies top $72B

The Department of Agriculture has spent at least $72 billion in subsidies for livestock and seafood producers in recent decades, a new EWG analysis finds.

www.ewg.org

 

[MossRoad]

I personally think 72 billion is an awful lot of subsidies. Of course I am also aware others will think otherwise.

USDA livestock subsidies top $72B

The Department of Agriculture has spent at least $72 billion in subsidies for livestock and seafood producers in recent decades, a new EWG analysis finds.

www.ewg.org

That's over a 28 year period.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I have A LOT of first hand knowledge of subsidies as I had a job in gov't at one time working on farm support and insurance programs.

Is support and subsidy the same thing?

If a subsidy is a payment from government what about payments (support) direct from consumers? Why don't payments from consumers count?

For example pass a law that says 10% of gasoline has to be made from corn or Y amount for diesel from soy.... this is not a subsidy cause gov't doesn't hand out a check to my farm but the law gives me huge benefits as a corn grower as all of a sudden 40% of all corn grown in US is new demand for our products. Drives up prices. But my pig farm a growing ration in the finisher barns can use 50-70% corn (5 pounds per day)

So the law is not a subsidy as gov't doesn't write a check. But livestock producers and other users of corn pay higher prices that get transferred from 1 to another.

So transparent subsidies like cheques are easy to see and measure. Non transparent subsidies / support almost never get measured and discussed and in the background are huge.

 

[Gator6x4]

I have A LOT of first hand knowledge of subsidies as I had a job in gov't at one time working on farm support and insurance programs.

Is support and subsidy the same thing?

If a subsidy is a payment from government what about payments (support) direct from consumers? Why don't payments from consumers count?

For example pass a law that says 10% of gasoline has to be made from corn or Y amount for diesel from soy.... this is not a subsidy cause gov't doesn't hand out a check to my farm but the law gives me huge benefits as a corn grower as all of a sudden 40% of all corn grown in US is new demand for our products. Drives up prices. But my pig farm a growing ration in the finisher barns can use 50-70% corn (5 pounds per day)

So the law is not a subsidy as gov't doesn't write a check. But livestock producers and other users of corn pay higher prices that get transferred from 1 to another.

So transparent subsidies like cheques are easy to see and measure. Non transparent subsidies / support almost never get measured and discussed and in the background are huge.
View attachment 2877488

The difference between a farmer and a 9-5 worker is as a farmer one can write of all associated costs of producing the product. The 9-5 person has to absorb the added cost, gas, food, parking fees, etc. they cannot write it off.

 

[oldnslo]

The difference between a farmer and a 9-5 worker is as a farmer one can write of all associated costs of producing the product. The 9-5 person has to absorb the added cost, gas, food, parking fees, etc. they cannot write it off.

No but the 9-5 worker probably gets a pay increase every year to help offset those rising costs, farmers don’t unless their crop prices rise.

 

[Gator6x4]

No but the 9-5 worker probably gets a pay increase every year to help offset those rising costs, farmers don’t unless their crop prices rise.

Some do, some don’t.

 

[Jstpssng]

No but the 9-5 worker probably gets a pay increase every year to help offset those rising costs, farmers don’t unless their crop prices rise.

The 9-5 worker gets at least minimum wage.
The farmer may or may not make that much.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

The difference between a farmer and a 9-5 worker is as a farmer one can write of all associated costs of producing the product. The 9-5 person has to absorb the added cost, gas, food, parking fees, etc. they cannot write it off.

good point... but to argue the opposite the 9-5 worker can choose not to buy the product. Like not buy e-10 gas and instead go electric, use public transportation, ride a bike, whatever, etc....

Where me feeding pigs I have no choice but to use corn. Sure I can cut back the ration of corn and substitute wheat/barley/peas/etc.... but ADG will suffer and my costs go up. I still get squat for the 250 pound pig.

ah... the joys of no one comes out a winner when we start fiddling around with free market forces. Darned if we do and darned if we don't

Cheers

 

[Gator6x4]

The 9-5 worker gets at least minimum wage.
The farmer may or may not make that much.

The Federal minimum wage is $7.75.

Now think about this. Federal or State Minimum wage?

"The federal minimum wage has never been set at $7.75. It's been at $7.25 per hour since July 24, 2009. This is the longest period without a nationwide increase since the minimum wage was established in 1938."

 

[doneill127]

CT minimum wage is set at $16.35.