Buying Advice Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start

   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #1  

fattylumpkins

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Southwest Washington / Woodland
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Looking to purchase my first tractor. Have decent lawn tractor (JD x350) but it's proven inadequate for any projects beyond cutting grass.

There is a John Deere dealership nearby, and a Kubota dealer even closer, so I would like to limit my search to these brands.

I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington. It's slightly hilly, very rocky soil (sometimes boulders), there's several trees but it's mostly a meadow, and it's constantly on the verge of being swallowed by blackberry. The property was neglected prior to purchase, so I'm in the process of restoring it and transforming it into my sanctuary. Use cases are moving wood, I would love to get a brush hog (as I've paid for this several times now and it's baffling how quickly blackberry grows), moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.

I think it's time for me to start considering a tractor. My budget is probably around $20K with some wiggle room.

Additional considerations: I've never used a tractor before, I'm not very mechanically inclined, and as such, I would love to have something user friendly and reliable. I don't know if this matters, I'm in my 30s and a woman, so I want to come prepared to any dealer so I don't get taken advantage of.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me. The anonymity of the internet will allow me to admit I'm sorta an idiot and in over my head, and maybe I should just stick to hand tools and manual labor.

Either way, thank you for any insight you can provide, I sincerely appreciate your help and advice.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #2  
We're all idiots to start, and those who won't admit this are still idiots. The rest of us, just slightly less idiotic....

Moving wood: You'll get lots of suggestions to get a grapple. I've managed just fine with forks; drive slowly and you won't lose the load. You can always strap the wood to the forks frame or use a chain. Forks are probably the most useful attachment on the tractor, at least tied with the bucket. Grapples are great but very expensive, especially those that are light enough to preserve some of the tractor loader's lifting power for the actual load. Forks are relatively cheap and light.

Many suggestions will tie the size of the property to the size of the tractor, but really it's about what you're using the tractor for, and where you need to get the tractor into. If it's got to go through a narrow gate, that's going to limit you to smaller tractors -- they're still very useful.

My guess is you'll be aiming at the B, LX, or L, 26-33hp in the Kubota line, or similar in the JD.
Unless you have significant PTO needs (like for a chipper), higher hp is not likely to be that useful. In a tractor, traction is king (thus the "tractor") and traction requires weight. The L is a larger frame tractor than the B, and thus heavier. I'm not well versed enough about what the LX is (it came out after I did my own shopping) but I suspect it's between them in weight (and cost).
The BX is a very useful creature but it's much lighter, smaller, and can't lift or operate the same size attachments.
Personally I don't like the idea of the bellow mower on a little tractor, as it seems to be something that a dedicated lawn mower does for a lot less money (like your x350) and doesn't sacrifice ground clearance on the bigger tractor.

Mowing your size property will go fine with a 5' rotary (it's a pretty rough cut, very much not fancy, but it's effective at controlling brush with much less to go wrong than other mowers). 6' will require a bigger tractor than a 5', for weight & power requirements. 5' may be easier to handle going between trees; driving a tractor with a big mower behind it can surprise you with how wide that thing swings when you turn! Drive slow. No, slower.

If you have blackberry brambles, I've found the best way to eliminate them is to put a chain around the bramble like a noose and pull it out.
A tractor or 4wd pickup truck is perfect for this.

This works best if the bramble is fairly dense, and the ground should be at least somewhat moist.
I've found doing this that quite often I'm left with only a root here or there and control thereafter is pretty simple (ideally, dig or yank out those roots, but cutting them back regularly can eventually kill them off too).

I've done this with 5/16" and 3/8" chains, with a slip hook
1728498403932.png

at one end; start by laying the chain around the bramble (in one case I had to use a pole to shove the chain through a bramble because I had to pull it in sections) and secure the chain to the puller (I did most of this with my truck, attached chain to trailer hitch). With the truck, using four-low is good for a slow pullout; the chain gradually tightens around the bramble and the bramble collapses into a big ball that I dragged to a good place to burn it.

It's almost sad but I have very little blackberry left on my land, but luckily our neighbors still have brambles trying to take over so we just go pick berries next door now when we want to make more wine ;)
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Hi!

I will have to try your recommendation with the chain and hook. I have all of those tools at my disposal right now, and will be giving this a go this weekend :) My broad fork is how I've been getting at the rhizomes but it's just an overwhelming uphill battle that I am constantly losing. Due to the huge rocks just beneath the surface of the soil, my brush cutter with the fitted blade has become a sketchy weapon - I never know what I'm about to hit.

I will look into what you suggested as well, my cursory review of what was available had me thinking the BX2380 would be the best option for my needs and then came all the (overwhelming) options about add-ons. I think that can be covered by talking to the dealer directly, I just want to know what base version I should seek out. Do you think a front loader (is that the bucket attachment?) would be something to immediately purchase?

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! Such great advice!
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #4  
Limiting yourself to JD and Kubota will definitely significantly impact the initial outlay of funds and the cost of filters and such. Those are the two most expensive commonly available brands in the US.

Shop the dealers. All brands make good tractors.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #5  
To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me.
I think a tractor is what you need. But $20k seems high. You don't need a big tractor, just something to use Cat 1 implements. I do ok with 4 ft implements in applications similar to yours, used on either my 24 hp or 18 hp tractor. Lots of blackberry vines here, I mow corridors so we can walk along and pick berries.

Most important is get one with a loader. It's not only for digging/moving earth, you'll soon find this takes the place of a wheelbarrow, a hoist, a mounting place for forks. When family visits to pick apples, I bring in their buckets using the loader. The uses are endless.

Tractors last for years. My preference would be a good used tractor from a dealer who is sure to be available to help with it for a long time. That $20k budget is more than enough for a used tractor with several implements and years of maintenance. But Deere and Kubota dealers are famous not just high repair costs, but also for putting commercial farmers ahead of small hobby farmers because downtime is a crisis for the former. I think this is an aspect to consider.

Older tractors are simple, while troubleshooting and electronic parts for recent ones can be as complex as a modern car, and need service only from an authorized dealer. The older ones were designed for owner maintenance, so a shop supporting any brand could maintain it.

Just things to consider ...

Whatever you get, you'll love it.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I think a tractor is what you need. But $20k seems high. You don't need a big tractor, just something to use Cat 1 implements. I do ok with 4 ft implements in applications similar to yours, used on either my 24 hp or 18 hp tractor. Lots of blackberry vines here, I mow corridors so we can walk along and pick berries.

Most important is get one with a loader. It's not only for digging/moving earth, you'll soon find this takes the place of a wheelbarrow, a hoist, a mounting place for forks. When family visits to pick apples, I bring in their buckets using the loader. The uses are endless.

Tractors last for years. My preference would be a good used tractor from a dealer who is sure to be available to help with it for a long time. That $20k budget is more than enough for a used tractor with several implements and years of maintenance. But Deere and Kubota dealers are famous not just high repair costs, but also for putting commercial farmers ahead of small hobby farmers because downtime is a crisis for the former. I think this is an aspect to consider.

Older tractors are simple, while troubleshooting and electronic parts for recent ones can be as complex as a modern car, and need service only from an authorized dealer. The older ones were designed for owner maintenance, so a shop supporting any brand could maintain it.

Just things to consider ...

Whatever you get, you'll love it.
That's solid advice and perhaps a more realistic approach to what my initial impression was. I had to look up what Cat 1 implements were but that does seem pertinent to what I described needing.

I'll have to look into getting one second hand, perhaps I'm not familiar with the market or where to find them, but the options for a used one look slim.

Also your candor about repair / maintenance is something I experienced. JD had my little mower for a long enough time to do the maintenance that the grass reached waist height and took me weeks to mow through.

Thank you for the time you spent to reply to me, I'll put more time into finding one secondhand versus the most convenient but expensive solution.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #7  
With JD look at a 1023e, 1025r or a 2025r. Pre Covid $20k would have got the job done. 5 years ago I paid $20k for my 2025r out the door but things have gone up. There are lots of used ones out there also.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #8  
We moved onto the property in 1982. It's 80 acres and classified as open range land. 25 miles due SW of Spokane.

Started with a brand new Ford 1700. 26 engine Hp. Worked just fine from 1982 until 2009. Then I got a new Kubota M6040. I had completed all the smaller projects in those 27 years. I wanted to move on to bigger projects.

You talk about all the blackberries. Are you a Westsider? Anyhow - I had a loader and bucket for gathering up and moving things. And a rear blade for summer and winter driveway maintenance. I have a mile long gravel driveway. With the new Kubota I got a grapple and new HD rear blade.

Welcome to TBN. Best of luck in your ongoing search.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #9  
I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington. It's slightly hilly, very rocky soil (sometimes boulders), there's several trees....

Use cases are moving wood, moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.

My cursory review of what was available had me thinking the ((subcompact category)) BX2380 would be one option for my needs.....


If you can live with the minimal 9" ground clearance ((think boulders)) common to subcompact category tractors in every brand, a BX2380 should be in the mix of tractors you consider.




 
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   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #11  
I’d hedge towards a B or LX series Kubota to handle 5ft implements. You’ll need the weight and wheelbase to handle them. A flail mower would satisfyingly obliterate blackberry bushes.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #12  
Definitely get a loader, and a decent bucket (not a "light materials" bucket - those tend to be more lightly built, and also have a larger volume - yes useful for light stuff like wood chips but too big for normal dirt, rocks, gravel). You definitely won't regret having a bucket.

Flail mowers are expensive and if it's so rocky there I doubt the flail will survive.

Something like a stump bucket -
1728518298178.png

may be useful in getting the roots of the berries, and smaller trees, and rocks of reasonable size, out of the ground. It won't move huge boulders; you'll have to mow around those.

Lots of attachments that go on a loader are "Quick-Attach" - flip two levers and you drop whatever's attached to the loader now, move the tractor over and hook on to another attachment, lift a bit, and flip the levers back to clamp it shut. New tractors will have this; used tractors may not, but it's super useful even if you only have a bucket and one other attachment that you switch between - with the QA you won't find yourself trying to optimize away implement switching because it's so quick and painless.

Out here on the west coast (I'm in norcal) I suspect the used market is still a hard place to get a tractor. When I was shopping in 2013-2016 (took me a while...) I looked and look for a used tractor, but all I could find were either wrecks going for $10-12k ('16 prices!) or "almost new" going literally for new price. Why would I buy a 2 year old tractor for the new price, when I can buy a new tractor for the same?

I ended up with a new tractor. If there's any push space in that budget, I think you're going to find you need it; $20k for tractor and a few implements will be a tough find.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #13  
I have 4 acres here in PA. I had (sold a few years ago and bought the 2nd Simplicity as mentioned below) a Ford 1900 4wd without a loader with a 72" finish deck. It was overkill for the property. I also have a Steiner 420 (20hp Onan 1994 model) with a loader attachment, 48" mower deck (backup status use only) a leaf blower which blows leaves into the next township (it's next door), a 50" snow brush for the 500ft driveway that's paved. I use the brush on the Articulating Steiner as a plow and then once mostly clear of heavier snow then I turn the brush on and brush it down to pavement. It works for me. If there's 3 feet of snow then I need to install the loader and (as seen here) move the snow as it's too much for the plow/brush idea. (happens like that once every 10 years so not often) The Steiner is a Sub compact tractor size and is a full hydro static drive system which is excellent on finished grass surfaces in that it doesn't tear up the lawn at all. And uses low pressure high floatation tires like an ATV. The loader though is limited in size (.25 cubic yard bucket) and weight lifting to around 300lbs as it'll pop the rear end up off the ground under a load it'll lift but can't actually move cause it's on two wheels then lol. It's plenty capable for normal dirt moving and mulching and brushing uses though on the 4 acres I use it. (which isn't a big lot at all really)

For grass cutting duties I use a Simplicity Zero turn (28hp, 61" deck - Citation XT is the model and has full suspension front and rear), I also have a Simplicity ZT2500 with a 24hp / 48" deck. (don't really need two but with both the wife and I cutting the job gets done 2x as fast.

For dirt duties for the garden (which I haven't planted the last few years) I have a 1970's Protill with a 8hp briggs and a peerless transmission (super heavy duty power and durability). It's good at removing large rocks from beneath the surface and lurching forward and jamming them into the tines when it does. It's really a beast and will go forward and reverse doing that job. It's like a mixer that you put dough on the counter into and it "beats" the h*ll out of anything you put into it. Dangerous ? Yes, but really does the job. And makes the garden nice and mixes the soil and manure nicely into the ground.

So, based on your comments I do basically the same thing here as your goals are. The Zero turns cut as needed and do it quickly. If you need a whole lot brushed at once, I'd suggest you hire it out at first and get it all beat back. Then cutting it with a ZTR that can handle it will be fine. Especially one with power and suspension to do it fast. Ferris makes a full suspension and Stihl also has them as well (Ferris manufactured).

All it takes is money for all of that! Personally I like to buy used stuff. The Steiner was used and around 10 years old when I got it. Cost me around $9000 at the time for everything (sold the plow blade as I didn't need it I found) and the ZTR's were around $6k new for the bigger one (was a hold over at the dealer so not brand new) and the smaller ZTR was around $3k (rebate of 500 bucks and a year old too). The rototiller was a basket case that I made work and had to repair almost each time I used it till I got the bugs out of it and has been good the last 5 or so years (I've had it 15 and yeah it broke every year for those 10 lol and was a PIA but again... good now)

So there's my example and long winded.
Good luck ! Find some good equipment and learn how to change the oil and minor repairs at least to save some bucks!
 
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   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #14  
I like that suggestion: hire out the heavy clearing. Then maintain with more human-scale machines. Apply the $thousands you save, compared to going big, to something more worthwhile.

In my own case, for similar property management, I started with 24 hp then bought an 18 hp smaller unit because it goes under my orchard trees better. I've found I can do whatever I need with the smaller unit.

The big one now is retired to keeping the 3-point backhoe on it permanently. The little guy can't lift the hoe, or I would sell the larger one.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #15  
Considering used:

I'm cheap. I have two Yanmars, each around 1980, now 40+ years old. Bought each used ... thoroughly used. The larger one ($3,900) needed a month of remedying 'deferred maintenance' - new battery, starter, key switch, more, some $500, but nothing indicating it was fundamentally worn out. Now 20 years later and the required maintenance kept up, it still runs fine. The little one bought 12 years ago ($3,500) had been well maintained by the prior owner and hasn't needed anything beyond scheduled maintenance.

Both look like heck, I wish prior owners hadn't left them outdoors. On both, fixing dumb stuff I broke, such as loader hoses snagged on downed trees, has been the extent of repairs needed.

Just for fun - One of the few photos I have showing both of them. Here's why you need two tractors! The little one slid and snagged the fence when I was filling a low spot at the fence line. I ran a cable from the larger Yanmar to pull it free without damaging the fence, then drove it out like a pendulum, still attached. :)

20171121_124750r-2tractors-againstfence-jpg.530027


Incidentally now a couple of years later that fence line is solid blackberry bushes and I mow a couple of feet away from it, so we can walk along and pick berries along a 6 ft high vertical wall.

I don't recommend buying anything this old if you don't have the instincts of a mechanic. But if you can find an honest shop to do your maintenance, then maybe they can recommend something suitable.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #16  
My choices would be a John Deere 2025, or a Kubota LX 2620SU, but both are over $20,000 for a tractor and loader.

Here are a couple of lower priced options:

1728528203646.png


1728527961403.png
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #17  
There is a John Deere dealership nearby, and a Kubota dealer even closer, so I would like to limit my search to these brands.
These are the top two brands, and there are some good reasons for that. They're well-configured products, very well supported, and have the best resale value. Just be aware that the penalty for all those benefits is a slightly higher purchase price.

I currently live on a 3.8 acre property in Washington... Use cases are moving wood, I would love to get a brush hog (as I've paid for this several times now and it's baffling how quickly blackberry grows), moving sod, filling holes, evening out land / tilling, and as a helper for ambitious gardening plans.
Your usage is very much like mine, if you add plowing snow from a long driveway, and seeding, spraying, and fertilizing your lawn.

I would be willing to be the majority of your new-found uses for this tractor will be as a front-end loader. In fact, owning a separate zero-turn mower, I'd say that probably 90%+ of my total tractor usage, is for moving materials or gear in the loader bucket or with forks on the loader.

Think about your tasks:

  1. Moving wood: logs can be hoisted using chain loops from front-end loader, or using pallet forks on loader. Split firewood can be moved in the front-end loader bucket, or on pallets with the pallet forks on the loader.
  2. Pushing back brush at property boundaries: Great task for a loader, eg. wild roses.
  3. Moving sod: Again, rolled on pallets with pallet forks on loader, or in loader bucket.
  4. Filling holes: Scoop some dirt out of your dirt pile, drive it to the hole and shovel or dump some in, again with the loader.
  5. Plowing your driveway: Drop the loader bucket, and pick up a loader-mounted plow, get the driveway cleaned, and easily switch back.

I'll include some photos of each of these tasks:
IMG_1716.JPG IMG_1948_small.jpg IMG_4974.JPG IMG_3788.JPG IMG_6890.JPG



I think it's time for me to start considering a tractor. My budget is probably around $20K with some wiggle room.
If shopping new from Deere or Kubota, $20k is probably low for the full package of tractor + implements. But if shopping slightly used, or shopping one of the cheaper brands, it may be adequate.

I would look at the jobs you want to do, and make a list of the implements you'll need to do those jobs. For me, that's:
  1. Front end loader with bucket, for moving dirt, mulch, sod, split firewood, etc. Heck, today I used it to carry a few loads of tools and PVC fittings out to where I'm working on a drainage project.
  2. Snow plow to go on front-end loader. Note, this will require you to add a 3rd hydraulic channel to the tractor, or at least a diverter onto ch.2, so you can tilt the plow left/right in addition to lift and curl.
  3. Pallet forks for loader, if moving anything palletized, or lots of logs.
  4. Brush hog, you already mentioned.
  5. Aerator, if you plan on doing that... maybe not for a very rocky meadow.
  6. Seed & fertilizer spreader.
  7. 3-point sprayer, for grub control and occasional herbicide broadcast
  8. Heavy-duty wagon for moving and storing firewood on patio
Your list might be a little different, the point is... have a list. I would then see what a good resale place like Messicks or Good Works Tractors can do on a full package, or as much of that list as possible, in a solid used machine. You could do the same with your local dealers. I personally would stick to only Deere and Kubota, if those are the dealers closest to you, even if buying used. The service guys at my Deere dealership don't really care where I bought my machine, they'll service it all the same.

All of these implements are available in many sizes, to fit everything from the smallest to the largest tractor. And even small tractors can do a lot of work, they just do it slower by taking smaller bites.

Additional considerations: I've never used a tractor before, I'm not very mechanically inclined, and as such, I would love to have something user friendly and reliable. I don't know if this matters, I'm in my 30s and a woman, so I want to come prepared to any dealer so I don't get taken advantage of.
No worries. Pretty sure women can drive a tractor as well as men, and might even be a little less inclined to get themselves into bad situations with one. But as to reliability, another reason to stick to the brands for which you have best local dealer support: Kubota and Deere. These are also very reliable brands, all support aside.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure a tractor is the right thing for me. The anonymity of the internet will allow me to admit I'm sorta an idiot and in over my head, and maybe I should just stick to hand tools and manual labor.
No way! 3.8 acres untamed is too much to work by hand. I would think a Deere 2R series would be ideal for you, or any Kubota equivalent, or older Deere equivalent. I have the 3R only because I move a lot of big logs, and the 2R is just a little light for log duty. But for all the other tasks I listed above, my old Deere 855 (similar size and power to 2025R) was just about perfect.

I will look into what you suggested as well, my cursory review of what was available had me thinking the BX2380 would be the best option for my needs and then came all the (overwhelming) options about add-ons.
For most brands and models, the only one you really need to choose at purchase, is if you want a mid-PTO option to drive a belly mower deck or front-mounted snowblower. mid-PTO's and front-PTO's are not something that can be easily added, as most model tractors require a different transmission or transfer case for this option.

Everything else can be added later, although I will warn you that adding extra hydraulic channels later can be more expensive than just configuring it at time of purchase, or finding a used machine that already has them. You'll need the standard 2 channels for any front-end loader, one channel lifts the arms up and down, and the other channel curls the bucket. Think of it as your elbow and wrist.

A third channel option is very useful, and if you're even thinking about a plow, a snowblower, or any rear-mounted implement that tilts, then I'd not be without a third channel.

All other options are just gravy, and can be added later. Lights are great, especially in winter, as are air-ride seats, etc.

Oh, and I guess tires are something you'd want to decide pre-purchase, as they're awful expensive to change later. You clearly don't need ag tires for anything you listed, in fact turf tires are what I run, although your rougher terrain may do well with R4 tires.

I think that can be covered by talking to the dealer directly, I just want to know what base version I should seek out. Do you think a front loader (is that the bucket attachment?) would be something to immediately purchase?
Yes. In fact, if buying a used machine, don't even consider one without a loader, if you ever want to have one. Used loaders for older machines are as rare as hens teeth, and never really easy to add later, for someone with limited mechanical skills. As already stated, my tractor is treated 90% of the time as just a power plant for the front-end loader. I'd go so far as to say I'd have little use for a tractor, without the loader.

If you read this forum, you'll find it full of people stating they use their loader way more than they ever imagined they would, especially as they get older and carrying things around the property becomes more of a drag (pun).

That's solid advice and perhaps a more realistic approach to what my initial impression was. I had to look up what Cat 1 implements were but that does seem pertinent to what I described needing.
On this. Avoid any machine that's cat.0 or cat.0/1. Implements for these are becoming more common than they were in the past, but they're still rare enough that you can't find used (or borrow), and they're not the cheapest solution. Just get a proper cat.1.

On brush hog, I saw someone mention a 60" model, which would be too much for a Deere 1-series... and would even be a little much for a Deere 2-series on hilly terrain. Much more manageable on flat ground, but we have hills, around here. I had a 48" Woods rotary mower mounted on my old Deere 855 MFWD, again similar size and weight to today's Deere 2025R.

I'll have to look into getting one second hand, perhaps I'm not familiar with the market or where to find them, but the options for a used one look slim.
Youtube: "Good Works Tractors". It's hard not to like that guy, and at least a few years back, his videos were a great help in thinking through these newbie issues and questions.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #18  
Here are a couple of lower priced options:
I agree those smaller tractors are reasonable choices for her tasks. And those dealers are at least in her state.

Original poster - put your location, or nearest big city, in your profile and perhaps someone can suggest a shop within driving distance that will support you.
 
   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #19  
For your budget:

Tractor and Loader
1728531195539.png

Pallet forks to move logs, brush, etc. $900
1728530494994.png

(when you say moving wood, are you talking logs or firewood)
4' Rotary Cutter (rough cut mower) for mowing brush and meadows $1,600
1728530718179.png

5' rear blade for road maintenance and snow removal $500
1728530602399.png

4' tiller or 4 1/2' disc for gardening, working the soil $2,000
1728530330171.png
or $1,200
1728530276601.png
 
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   / Questions about potential purchase, not sure where to start #20  
The first things I would buy are the tractor & loader, rough cut mower and rear blade.
 

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