Thoughts on 100hp tractor options

[Hay Dude]

I'm definitely open to brands other than Kubota, so welcome the suggestions. You got me looking at Massey (thanks) and I really like the 4710 or 5711, but am obviously wondering about transmission options based on the terrain I have. There is a reason farmers left New England in the mid 1800s and moved to flatter land. Out of my 1500 acres, none of it is flat. I have a few acres that are "sloped", and everything else is steep. And all the "fields" are pretty small so I'm never running in long straight lines, but rather turning a lot and always crossing a fall line.

Having an accessible dealer of course matters, and Massey is within 2 hrs of me. The closest Fendt dealer is 6+ hours away, not surprisingly in an area with flat farm land . I haven't looked at Deere mostly because everyone says they are over priced. And Kubota is near by which makes them a candidate. I need to look harder at Massey if you say there is a CVT in the 100hp range. I only found it in the 6S line (I think I have that right) in higher HP ratings.

This whole endeavor is a bit of a stretch when you look at the costs involved vs my needs, so it may go nowhere. But I want to explore it and really appreciate the advice from people who regularly use these larger tractors.

Your Massey dealer should also be a Fendt dealer since both tractors are owned by AGCO corporation.
Just buy a Kubota CVT. It’s not like you are hard core farming.

 

[Agroasia Tractors UAE]

I currently have Kubota L5740 and am considering adding a 100hp tractor of some sort. I want to be able to run a 15' batwing mower, and need more HP to drive an 84" hydraulic snow blower. The 5740 falls short on HP and weight for these tasks.

One area I'm focusing on is the transmission. The terrain here is very steep and uneven, and the HST in the L5740 has been great for that. But I'm concerned that a "manual" transmission will be a big step backwards. There appear to be two types in current tractors:

Synchronized gears, but clutch-to-shift. They all seem to have a clutch button on the shifter so you can just hold down the clutch button while shifting rathe than use the clutch peddle, but there will still be a pause as you shift. I'm thinking that when going real slow on steep terrain, I will actually have to brake to a stop, shift, then start up again. I'm sure I will get used to whatever, but this sounds less desirable.

Power shift gears where all the clutching is automatic and without loss of drive power, much the way an automatic transmission in a car shifts. This sounds much more desirable for my application.

All of them have foward-neutral-reverse clutchless shifting, often called a shuttle shift.

For range shifting, most require clutching, and perhaps even coming to a stop. But some have clutchless power shifting of ranges too, and even automatic reselection of the primary gear to match speed when you shift ranges. Some have just a single high/low gear range shift that is clutchless, but the individual gears are still clutch-to-shift, and there is typically a second manual shift range control too.

In a perfect world I'd just get powershift everything and I think be quite happy. The problem is that the smaller 100hp range tractors like the Massey 4700 series and the Kubota M4 series are only available with clutch shifting. Massey has a single high/low range power shift, but gears and ranges are otherwise clutch to shift.. I think Kubota is all clutch to shift. To get power shifting you need to move up to the Massey 5700 series or the Kubota M5 series. Both look like great machines, but probably overkill in all other ways for my needs, and of course a good bit more expensive.

Any thoughts on this, including any other thoughts on Massey 4700 vs 5700, and Kubota M4 vs M5 series machines?

When moving up to a 100hp tractor, power shift transmission seems ideal for steep and uneven terrain, especially if you're using a batwing mower or hydraulic snow blower. For precise control without the need to clutch, Massey Ferguson's 5700 series offers a smoother experience with power shift, making it a great choice for handling steep terrain. While the 4700 series and Kubota M4 are solid, upgrading to a full power shift system could provide you the efficiency and ease you're looking for. At Massey ferguson UAE "Brand New 5700 series Tractors in UAE - Massey Ferguson UAE", we specialize in providing top-quality Massey Ferguson tractors to meet the diverse needs of farmers working in all kinds of terrain.

 

[hayden]

Op could be like me. Only choice here is kubota, deere and Massey. Deere construction stuff was horrible so they are out. I have an m5 kubota now. If did it all over again, I would look at Massey real hard.

Yes, like you. I'm pretty sure those are the only farm tractor manufacturers with dealers close enough to consider. Mahindra, LG, and stuff like that is off the table for me. Same with New Holland. I don't want a hit or miss brand. I have really only looked closely (sort of) at Kubota and Massey, and right now I'd definitely pick Massey. If nothing else, not having a DPF and regen is a major plus. Case is an option, and I haven't looked into them at all.

As for budget, as the cost starts to climb over $100k I start thinking I'll just keep doing everything with my L5740. It does it all, just slowly. But really what matters to me is the package deal of cost, performance, and features, and whether that package is worth it to me. It's not just one dimension of cost.

First step for me is identifying what will meet my needs. 100hp (90 ph PTO), give or take will drive the implements. There are a bunch of nice machines in the 70hp range, but I don't think that's enough more than what I already have to be worth the change.

Next is the transmission. Several years ago I started a thread asking what the biggest tractor is with HST, thinking maybe I could go bigger and still have an HST. The answer was that I pretty much already have that, so it stopped there.
Now I'm more seriously exploring these other transmissions to see if they might do the trick.

Next in the decision process for me is the cost to get what I think will meet my needs, and whether it's worth it to me. Used is definitely an option, but I'd be worried about getting someone else's problem child since any trade-in was traded in for a reason....

 

[Hay Dude]

Hydrostatic and CVT have only a few similarities. CVT tractors still look almost identical to a geared tractor all the way back to the transmission. No pumps at the wheel-ends.

Case-IH and New Holland have a new adaptation of the CVT they claim is even better than the original CVT design.

I’m partial to the Fendt CVT design, which is what is used in Massey, Challenger, AGCO and of course, Fendt. Challenger and AGCO tractors are discontinued and I am a happy man for it. It gives me a chance to afford modern CVT tractors essentially the same as a Massey, with a Fendt drivetrain, for a lower price.

I could go the next 10 years in Challenger or AGCO tractors and be perfectly happy.

 

[LouNY]

Are you only looking at new? or used also?
From what little I have seen and used the CVT/IVT transmissions the AGCO product line seems the most intuitive to operate.
Tractor house has a good search and e3asy to tune search parameters,
Pardon Our Interruption
A screen shot of a search;

Unfortunately (at least to me) many of the listed tractors are JD.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Yes, like you. I'm pretty sure those are the only farm tractor manufacturers with dealers close enough to consider. Mahindra, LG, and stuff like that is off the table for me. Same with New Holland. I don't want a hit or miss brand. I have really only looked closely (sort of) at Kubota and Massey, and right now I'd definitely pick Massey. If nothing else, not having a DPF and regen is a major plus. Case is an option, and I haven't looked into them at all.

As for budget, as the cost starts to climb over $100k I start thinking I'll just keep doing everything with my L5740. It does it all, just slowly. But really what matters to me is the package deal of cost, performance, and features, and whether that package is worth it to me. It's not just one dimension of cost.

First step for me is identifying what will meet my needs. 100hp (90 ph PTO), give or take will drive the implements. There are a bunch of nice machines in the 70hp range, but I don't think that's enough more than what I already have to be worth the change.

Next is the transmission. Several years ago I started a thread asking what the biggest tractor is with HST, thinking maybe I could go bigger and still have an HST. The answer was that I pretty much already have that, so it stopped there.
Now I'm more seriously exploring these other transmissions to see if they might do the trick.

Next in the decision process for me is the cost to get what I think will meet my needs, and whether it's worth it to me. Used is definitely an option, but I'd be worried about getting someone else's problem child since any trade-in was traded in for a reason....

JD has had a 4075R with HST for about a year now, if you can get by with that small of a tractor that has 75HP, you can now also have 75hp with an HST. Should be a step up from your L5740 I would think.

 

[ZJ_HR]

There’s Fendt Vario …and others
JD’s IVT is just “Imitation of Variable Transmission” :lol:

 

[Hay Dude]

I have been advised to steer clear of the “older” Case-IH CVT’s. The Fendt CVT’s usually will go 10,000 hrs with proper care in the under 200HP range. The larger 300HP will sometimes go 7500 hours if they’re used hard.

I bought my MT655E with a new/reman CVT installed about 500 hours before a I bought it.

If the OP has money to spend, I’d consider a Fendt for absolute premium luxury and tractor operating joy. Or drop down to a massey/CNH product.

Much of tractor buying decisions are dealer support in their unique area. For service in my area, we are lucky to have all brands represented. My state’s (PA) #1 business is still agriculture, so we have a lot of AG brands to choose from.

Here’s a neat little Fendt 100HP CVT

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Rustyiron]

Have you considered fixing the rough areas to avoid speed/gear changes?
And remember that the tire size difference between your tractor and a 100hp really smooths things out. Having front tires the size of your current rears.....

 

[Hay Dude]

Have you considered fixing the rough areas to avoid speed/gear changes?
And remember that the tire size difference between your tractor and a 100hp really smooths things out. Having front tires the size of your current rears.....

And the proper tire inflation.

 

[LouNY]

I have been advised to steer clear of the “older” Case-IH CVT’s. The Fendt CVT’s usually will go 10,000 hrs with proper care in the under 200HP range. The larger 300HP will sometimes go 7500 hours if they’re used hard.

I bought my MT655E with a new/reman CVT installed about 500 hours before a I bought it.

If the OP has money to spend, I’d consider a Fendt for absolute premium luxury and tractor operating joy. Or drop down to a massey/CNH product.

Much of tractor buying decisions are dealer support in their unique area. For service in my area, we are lucky to have all brands represented. My state’s (PA) #1 business is still agriculture, so we have a lot of AG brands to choose from.

Here’s a neat little Fendt 100HP CVT

Pardon Our Interruption

Nice looking tractor, I am surprised that it doesn't have the economy speeds in the pto especially the 540E.

 

[hayden]

I have been advised to steer clear of the “older” Case-IH CVT’s. The Fendt CVT’s usually will go 10,000 hrs with proper care in the under 200HP range. The larger 300HP will sometimes go 7500 hours if they’re used hard.

I bought my MT655E with a new/reman CVT installed about 500 hours before a I bought it.

If the OP has money to spend, I’d consider a Fendt for absolute premium luxury and tractor operating joy. Or drop down to a massey/CNH product.

Much of tractor buying decisions are dealer support in their unique area. For service in my area, we are lucky to have all brands represented. My state’s (PA) #1 business is still agriculture, so we have a lot of AG brands to choose from.

Here’s a neat little Fendt 100HP CVT

Pardon Our Interruption

I'm checking out Fendt. Looks fantastic, including the Vario transmission. However cost looks to be about twice what an equivalent size Massey costs. But I'll keep looking. If nothing else, it's fun checking out all these different tractors.

 

[hayden]

Have you considered fixing the rough areas to avoid speed/gear changes?
And remember that the tire size difference between your tractor and a 100hp really smooths things out. Having front tires the size of your current rears.....

I have done that in a variety of areas, and continue to do so. But there are a lot of limitations since the soil is typically quite thin, and solid rock below.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm checking out Fendt. Looks fantastic, including the Vario transmission. However cost looks to be about twice what an equivalent size Massey costs. But I'll keep looking. If nothing else, it's fun checking out all these different tractors.

The Massey will have the same transmission, rear axle and braking system as the Fendt. So did the discontinued Challenger & AGCO brand tractors.

Thats why I buy them!

 

[hayden]

The Massey will have the same transmission, rear axle and braking system as the Fendt. So did the discontinued Challenger & AGCO brand tractors.

Thats why I buy them!

I was unclear in my comparison. The “equivalent” Massey that I’m considering would be a 4710 with a clutch-to-shift transmission. For me it’s a question of how much more I’d be willing to pay for a fancier transmission, be it a full power shift on all gears, or a CVT. Both the Fendt 211 and the Massey 4710 meet my needs from a HP and size perspective, but I think a power shift or CVT would be easier to drive on my terrain. But that’s not worth around $80k extra to me.

 

[Hay Dude]

I didn’t know it was $80,000 more for a CVT option.

The entire transmission replaced (parts & labor) for a CVT in a Massey is $25,000. I’m wondering if you got some funky sales figures.

Don’t forget that New Holland and Case-IH also have smaller CVT tractors. My local NH dealer had a very nice looking smaller New Holland with their new version of the CVT which is supposed to be an upgrade to their typical CVT.

Good luck

 

[hayden]

I didn’t know it was $80,000 more for a CVT option.

The entire transmission replaced (parts & labor) for a CVT in a Massey is $25,000. I’m wondering if you got some funky sales figures.

Don’t forget that New Holland and Case-IH also have smaller CVT tractors. My local NH dealer had a very nice looking smaller New Holland with their new version of the CVT which is supposed to be an upgrade to their typical CVT.

Good luck

A Fendt 211 on MachineTrader seems to be in the $170k range, lightly used, and a Massey 4710 is around $80k, both with loaders. Those are rough numbers, but tell the story. You would know better than me, but it looks like there is a lot more in the Fendt than just a CVT. As you have said, it's a real premium tractor, so you get a lot more than just a CVT for the extra $80k. It's just that for me, then only thing I really care about is the CVT.

BTW, I have been reading and watching explanations of how a CVT works. It's pretty cool. I wonder how the manufacturing cost compares to a full powershift. Both have a lot of complexity to them, and hence cost, so probably why they don't show up until more expensive tractors.

 

[Hay Dude]

A Fendt 211 on MachineTrader seems to be in the $170k range, lightly used, and a Massey 4710 is around $80k, both with loaders. Those are rough numbers, but tell the story. You would know better than me, but it looks like there is a lot more in the Fendt than just a CVT. As you have said, it's a real premium tractor, so you get a lot more than just a CVT for the extra $80k. It's just that for me, then only thing I really care about is the CVT.

BTW, I have been reading and watching explanations of how a CVT works. It's pretty cool. I wonder how the manufacturing cost compares to a full powershift. Both have a lot of complexity to them, and hence cost, so probably why they don't show up until more expensive tractors.

Those are not comparable tractors. Not just quality/features but size and capability.
Powershift tractor transmissions can be more expensive to repair than a CVT in many cases

 

[hayden]

Those are not comparable tractors. Not just quality/features but size and capability.
Powershift tractor transmissions can be more expensive to repair than a CVT in many cases

HP is about the same. Weight is about the same. Wheel base is about the same. So I would think size and capabilities are about the same, though features are quite different.

Actually, looking closer it's kind of between the 4700 and 5700 series in weight and wheelbase. But either will meet my needs in terms of size, weight, and HP.

 

[LouNY]

Are you looking at 100 engine hp or 100 pto hp,
Many of the newer tractors with 100 engine Hp you are down to the 70's for pto Hp.