YM1700 injector timing question

   / YM1700 injector timing question #21  
The “drip tube” coming off #1 cyl should only be about 5 inches long and curved over like a candy cane..
Fuel start flowing and starts to drip and when the drip gets to 1 about every few seconds.. STOP.. that’s port closure, start of delivery..
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #22  
Without going back and reading the whole thread..
WHY r u going thru this.??
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#23  
I've had this tractor for more than 20 years and a few years ago I could no longer get it started. After many new parts including injectors and injector pump the tractor is still very hard to start. Compression seems to be good and it seemed like fuel is getting out of the injectors so I thought I would check the timing.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#24  
The “drip tube” coming off #1 cyl should only be about 5 inches long and curved over like a candy cane..
Fuel start flowing and starts to drip and when the drip gets to 1 about every few seconds.. STOP.. that’s port closure, start of delivery..
Thanks for the description. I hadn't seen anything about what the drip tube should look like.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #25  
The compression seems ok.??
I can understand the injectors seems ok because of the smoke from the exhaust, but how does one check compression without checking the compression.??
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #26  
I can send u a picture of the drip tube if u like..
Send me your phone # in a prvt msg and I’ll text you a pic of it.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#27  
The compression seems ok.??
I can understand the injectors seems ok because of the smoke from the exhaust, but how does one check compression without checking the compression.??
I did compression testing (using a tester I got from Hoyes) on each cylinder and got more than 550 psi in each. I put in new sleeves, pistons, rings, and head.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Here's what I've tried based on thepumpguysc input. The injection timing monitoring tube (photo) has a small flow when the when the engine is before 1 TDC. As the engine is rotated CW, the flow slows and stops. The photo with the red lines shows where I think the timing marks are. I also included a photo from another thread depicting the marks. So I think TDC is the red mark between the 1 and T in my photo and the lower mark is the timing mark. If this is the case and the engine is at the position where fuel flow stopped then I think this shows the timing is late and I would want to remove shims under the injector pump.
 

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   / YM1700 injector timing question #29  
u can tell if ur on the right track by measuring the shims u have now..
Someone had posted a formula between shims and degrees.. I can’t think of it at the moment..
It’s probably been done a gazillion times.. see if u can search: Kubota PFR timing formula..
The process is the same..between ALL small machines running the
PFR style pumps..
Kubota, Yanmar, JD, Kioti, etc..
U can probably find a better way/description on how y to o do it..
U should turn the drip tube down and watch the drips..
 
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   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#30  
It seems like I need to remove more shims than are installed to get the timing correct. I have seen a few similar posts of what to do if removing all the shims does not get the timing to where it is supposed to be, but I didn't see any answers posted. I did put some extra shims in to see that it moved my timing in the wrong way (lagged more than it does with no shims, so farther from the desired timing mark). I think the Yanmar manual I have says each shim moves the timing by a degree.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #31  
For what it is worth, the I&T manual says 1mm (.0039) shim will change timing 1 degree. Based on your thoughts you might consider removing all the shims, crank her up and see what difference you see.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #32  
If ur going to remove ALL the shims, rotate the engine BY HAND a couple of times to MAKE SURE the pump cam isn’t going to bottom out into the pump..
THAT would be bad.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Just to follow up, I had leading and lagging backwards for the injector pump timing. I was able to get pretty close to the injector timing mark with one 0.001" and one 0.0005" shim. This was with the injector pump control rack pushed all the way towards the back of the tractor. I noticed that if I pushed the rack forward, the fuel would flow at pulley locations past (more clockwise) where it would flow when the rack was all the way back. So it seemed important to have the injector pump rack in the same position for the timing checks as different shims were tested.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #34  
I am anxious to hear your conclusion as to whether or not this helped your overall cranking or running.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Just to follow up - it seems like the starting is quite a bit better but still not quick to start. I think there is another issue in that besides being somewhat hard to start, there is a lot of black smoke and it doesn't run for long before it just slows down and stops without load. In putting everything back together I had to remove the head to get a front pre-combustion chamber out of the head that got stuck without bottoming on the copper sealing ring. So I put a new head gasket on and tested compression with the combustion chambers in place and got about 500 psi in each cylinder after several strokes. I have a new fuel bowl and line to the injector pump. I redid the injector to fuel tank fuel return line because I had a bit of leakage there.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #36  
Just to follow up - it seems like the starting is quite a bit better but still not quick to start. I think there is another issue in that besides being somewhat hard to start, there is a lot of black smoke and it doesn't run for long before it just slows down and stops without load. In putting everything back together I had to remove the head to get a front pre-combustion chamber out of the head that got stuck without bottoming on the copper sealing ring. So I put a new head gasket on and tested compression with the combustion chambers in place and got about 500 psi in each cylinder after several strokes. I have a new fuel bowl and line to the injector pump. I redid the injector to fuel tank fuel return line because I had a bit of leakage there.
Goose, I've shared this Do's and Do-Nots with those having the issues you are experiencing.

How to keep the soot away and ways to prevent having the head warp and crack on these Yanmar engines.

- Do not let the engine idle below 1200rpms for longer than 10mins max at a time. And the time is with 20mins between.

- Do use 10W30 summer and 5W30 winter for engine oil. Do not use the heavy thicker 15W40 as it will holds the heat longer in the engine. Yanmar makes engines to JIS standards, not SAE. So the cooling oil passages are narrower in metric.

- Do keep the air intake filter clean. Clogged filter makes the engine work harder and heat builds up within the engine.

- Do keep the radiator and the screen clean.

- Do check the coolant. Do not use extended life coolants in these vintage machines.

- Do start the tractor slightly above idle.

- Do not race the engine from slow to fast and fast to slow.

- Do slow the engine speed down gradually, idle for 15 seconds then turn the engine off.

Some of these tips are from Deere, some are in the Yanmar USA bulletins and some came from the Yanmar JP website before 2018.

Now, with all of that said, your machine could have an old lazy starter. This happens often with solenoid starters vs. the modern OSGR starters. As the solenoid ages, subject to heat and humidity, the electrical resistance rises. This in turn raises the amp draw from the battery, as the charging circuit is maxed out on the YM series to 35amps, the entire system becomes sluggish. With OSGR starters, this is never the case to bog down like the older solenoid types do.

To help remove the build up of black soot from inside the working combustion of a diesel engine, the use of Seafoam is required. This will work faster than any PowerServe product with better results. Seafoam was originally created just for this purpose, diesel tractors.

Seafoam-tractor.jpg


Let's us help save your machine before troubles become way wore and costly for repairs. The small ounce of preventing and treatment wards off a huge disaster about to happen.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #37  
Just to follow up - it seems like the starting is quite a bit better but still not quick to start. I think there is another issue in that besides being somewhat hard to start, there is a lot of black smoke and it doesn't run for long before it just slows down and stops without load. In putting everything back together I had to remove the head to get a front pre-combustion chamber out of the head that got stuck without bottoming on the copper sealing ring. So I put a new head gasket on and tested compression with the combustion chambers in place and got about 500 psi in each cylinder after several strokes. I have a new fuel bowl and line to the injector pump. I redid the injector to fuel tank fuel return line because I had a bit of leakage there.
Can you clarify this at all? What do you mean by "there is a lot of black smoke", and "it just slows down and stops without load..." ? Is there always black smoke? Just at starting? When working, or idling? When it slows down and stops, is it idling? Working? Medium throttle? Any throttle?

Have you bled your injector pump to injector lines?

All the best,

Peter
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question
  • Thread Starter
#38  
B maverick - thanks for sharing the do and don't list.

Peter- it is smoky from the time I start it while sitting with no load. In the short video Smoky dying tractor this is at medium throttle after running a minute or so. I have bled the pump to injector lines. I am thinking of cracking the injector line to injector connections while running to see if the response is the same for each.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #39  
T


Peter- it is smoky from the time I start it while sitting with no load. In the short video Smoky dying tractor this is at medium throttle after running a minute or so. I have bled the pump to injector lines. I am thinking of cracking the injector line to injector connections while running to see if the response is the same for each.
Good idea.
 
   / YM1700 injector timing question #40  
That's not black smoke to me. That's grey/white smoke, and is a sign of overfueling, coolant leakage, bad injectors, or blown injector timing, and / or compression loss. It looks as if it is both cylinders or injectors, which points me towards the fuel line, or timing, or injectors. I would start by carefully bleeding the whole fuel system.

Engine smoke is a great diagnostic tool. Have a look at YouTube for examples; e.g.

Have you checked your coolant for normal level, and for gas bubbles or oil?

All the best,

Peter
 

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