Really, really dumb question about difference between off road and on road diesel fuel.

[ruffdog]

^^^maybe not all fuels are created equal as far as lubricity goes?

 

[aircommuter]

The dye for Diesel is something they had in Europe over 50 years ago. More diesel cars over there and home heating fuel was the main target. Lots of things we see here were in Europe 20 years before. Like blue lights on cop cars and rising and falling sirens instead of one stationary frequency. As far as I know in California you have to fill out a form to get your money back if you cannot get off road Diesel. Naturally that would be expected in the most tax hungry location on the globe!
Politicians don’t like us reducing the funds that affect their cushy job. But it’s ok if the governor travels around the country when his job is here.
Some cops also just like to do easy work that keeps funds in kitty for their wages and benefits. Kinda like protection rackets.
Meanwhile drunk drivers are running around. But that’s harder work.
Years ago I had a CHP stop me while driving my backhoe on the road and told me I needed to license it for road use, but I knew as long as it was less than 50% on road one could get an SE plate for $10 no annual fee. I did that but they didn’t have plates they send them out so I had the temporary paper in my pocket. Sure enough I saw him coming towards me a few days later and he made a U turn just to pull me over. I showed him my paperwork and told him to go catch a drunk driver instead of hassling the working people. He replied this is part of his job too. I said yes the easy part.

 

[LouNY]

No difference in my area between #2 diesel and #2 fuel oil.

 

[HAR]

My guess is those with obvious construction or farm vehicles are much more likely to get red dye tested than on road semi trucks.
I've never seen it done

I am not sure about your area, but here, whenever there is a State/DOT road check, one of the first things that they do is check diesel fuel and/or filter. You cannot hide the dye. The State/DOT frown on those who do not pay the road taxes that fuel generates.
As for being able to get off road diesel, here my dealer just needed me to sign a form which included my name, address, and equipment make/model.

 

[aircommuter]

I am not sure about your area, but here, whenever there is a State/DOT road check, one of the first things that they do is check diesel fuel and/or filter. You cannot hide the dye. The State/DOT frown on those who do not pay the road taxes that fuel generates.
As for being able to get off road diesel, here my dealer just needed me to sign a form which included my name, address, and equipment make/model.

The nearest place that sells off road Diesel is 40 miles from me.

 

[Indiana haymaker]

Quality-wise, the only difference between on-road and off-road diesel is the red dye. I used to be the one adding the red dye. 250 ml per 8000 gallons of diesel if I remember correctly. The red dye denotes off-road fuel and as such the dyed fuel doesn't have to have the road tax added to it when sold, making it significantly cheaper.

Just don't get caught with dyed diesel in your on-road vehicle. Around here the DOT has been known to stop diesel pickup on the highway and "dip" the fuel tank. If dyed diesel is discovered there is a huge fine and they confiscate the pickup!

Random stops by DOT or police to "dip" your tank is complete illegal. It violates your constitutional rights to illegal search and siesure. You have to be accused of a crime before you or your property can be searched

 

[aircommuter]

Don’t you know how traffic court works? Guilty until proven innocent. Many times you are up against judges who are paid by the same revenues.

 

[ruffdog]

What is the fine for using red on the road?

What is the Fine for Running Off Road Diesel

WI rules on dyed diesel:

https://wfbf.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Dyed-Diesel-Fuel-Doc.pdf

 

[tradosaurus]

I am very supportive of law enforcement. Have flown aerial missions in support of them donating my plane and paying for the fuel. But I have to agree with your statement.

Here was a famous case from our region:

https://thisisreno.com/2021/12/lawsuit-filed-after-nhp-confiscates-mans-life-savings-during-traffic-stop/

3 years later

 

[charlessenf]

The government required them ...

Well, the men an women we elected to Congress and to the US Senate passed law to protect us and created the agency(ies) to administer their law.

The government refused to pass a law to regulate over the counter 'supplements.' So, while you can know the sulfur content in that gallon of regulated fuel, you can't know if there's actually any Genseng in the twenty-four dollar bottle of "Korean Red Ginseng Softgels | Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Standardized to 10."

As more and more folks describe general interactions between themselves or 'us' and our government and individuals negatively, they feed into a dark and fearful consequence for our children. No outsider can conquer America, we simply wouldn't stand for it.

But we are, as Khrushchev once said, susceptible to destroying ourselves - I think he predicted it in an interaction with Richard Nixon when I was a kid practicing what to do 'in case of nuclear attack' from the USSR.

 

[aircommuter]

Many if not most elected officials are elected by huge campaign funds, lies and misinformation from them and large corporations, unions, and other billionaires. The voting public is largely uninformed, gullible and thinks electricity comes from the outlet in their wall.

 

[deserteagle71]

The voting public is largely uninformed, gullible and thinks electricity comes from the outlet in their wall.

And all food comes from the grocery store...who needs farmers?

 

[DieselBound]

For me off-road even WITH tax is cheaper. And this includes delivery.

 

[kneedeep]

Now I will admit, I don't know a darn thing about diesel fuels. Never touched a diesel motor, much less owned one before I bought my tractor several months ago. A friend of mine told me to use the off road diesel, since it is significantly cheaper, and basically the same as the on road stuff you would buy for passenger vehicles except for the colored dye to mark the off road stuff.

Then the other day another friend tells me that I shouldn't be using the off road diesel in my tractor, because there are significant deficiencies in the off road stuff, particularly lubrication of engine parts, that are detrimental to the engine.

So, who is correct?

And I sure do hope that there isn't going to be 50 percent saying one, and the other 50 percent saying the other is correct. :/

Red dyed diesel hasn't had road tax applied to the cost.

There is no difference in fuel quality between taxed and untaxed fuel.
When I could get enough fuel to work all weekend in a couple of 5 gal cans, I bought diesel where ever I could get it.
Once I got a second tractor, I hauled fuel in a 55 gal drum because I could unload it with FEL.
Now I use about 200 gals/year and 100 gal transport tank paid for itself in savings after the 2nd year.
Your Mileage May Vary!

 

[4570Man]

Random stops by DOT or police to "dip" your tank is complete illegal. It violates your constitutional rights to illegal search and siesure. You have to be accused of a crime before you or your property can be searched

Actually they don’t need a warrant or probable cause to search you for tax evasion. And any rights you thought you had are gone the second you put commercial tags on a vehicle. The can search those anywhere for any reason.

 

[aircommuter]

Is that one of those unwritten laws?

 

[4570Man]

Is that one of those unwritten laws?

I guess but the IRS hasn’t ever asked permission to audit anyones books.

 

[aircommuter]

I guess but the IRS hasn’t ever asked permission to audit anyones books.

Searching a truck is not a scheduled audit. The search requires a warrant.

 

[USMC43]

A commercial truck they do not need anything, it in the federal DOT laws.

A private truck they can still search if they have probable cause to search the inside areas and the Supreme Courts have reaffirmed this. The outside of the truck including the tank do not need a warrant or probable cause. There is no expectation of privacy on the outside of the vehicle

If it’s locked , such as a bed mounted toolbox they would need a warrant. A commercial vehicle locked tank is codified and is a 1000 dollar fine for refusing to allow access. I am not sure about private vehicles

 

[Rock Crawler]

I don't know if the two are chemically identical, but I've been using it in my tractors for over 40 years now and haven't had any issues.

Ultra low sulfur fuels are required for most newer tractors. ULS fuel was required for on road use well before the same requirement was applied to home heating oil. Now, almost all fuels, clear or red, are ULS, according to my heating oil supplier.

For me in Western PA, I buy my red fuel from a place that sells diesel/Home Heating oil out of a single pump. When you go in to the counter, you can state off-road diesel or state home heating oil, and you are written up and charged according to your words. The girl once asked me if I meant "home heating oil" when I stated that I got 40 gallons of diesel, I was confused, so she explained. I save over a $1 a gallon saying home heating oil. There are still some taxes applied to off-road in PA that are not applied to home heating oil. Since the oil itself is the same underground tank and same fuel pump, the only difference is how it is written up and taxed. Based on that, I have only bought home heating since 2018.