Should limited hyd. top link range be biased to longer or shorter?

[braccet]

Hi all, new Kioti CK2620SE Cab tractor owner here! Hope my title made sense. I didn't know if this was better for this forum or the hydraulics forum, but since it's more of a general question on length (I have the hydraulics part figured out), figured I'd put it here.

Basically, the situation is that my stock top link goes from 18" to 30" in length. Hydraulic top links are available in two sizes that I can easily find: 18-26 and 21-32. So the question is, should I bias my pick towards the shorter end of the OEM range or the longer end?

Currently I actually have the 18-26 freshly installed on my tractor. I attached a photo showing it fully extended on my Woodmaxx flail mower. You can see that at full extension, the top pin is not very far beyond the bottom pins (2-3"?). And you can see that when fully retracted, it would be quite a bit behind them.

I'd like a bit more tilt out of my flail mower for when it's muddy so the skids don't dig in constantly, but before I swap, just wanted to check to make sure I'm not sacrificing some other implement by losing 3" of max "inward" tilt. The flail mower is the only implement I have so far. Box blade is next. Do you typically need more "outward" tilt than "inward" tilt on a box blade?

Are there any other 3 point implements out there that require a lot of inward tilt? Just trying to cover my bases.

Thanks!

 

[pmsmechanic]

I have a quick-tach on my tractor and I drilled a second hole so I could either have it "short" or "long". Most of the time I'm in the "short" position. YMMV

 

[jjeff]

Stroke matters, if your handy you can modify where the top link pins to the implement to get the desired pitch or angle you want if the stroke is to short or the cylinder retracted is to much.

 

[WinterDeere]

Why not just test each of your current implements with the existing screw-type top link, to determine the range of lengths you need, and then center the available travel of the new one upon that range? I think that's what I did, back when I chose mine, not trusting the OEM or dealer really put such effort into selecting the original.

 

[braccet]

Why not just test each of your current implements with the existing screw-type top link, to determine the range of lengths you need, and then center the available travel of the new one upon that range? I think that's what I did, back when I chose mine, not trusting the OEM or dealer really put such effort into selecting the original.

That's my issue, I don't have implements yet, only the flail mower. I'm asking for advice from the more experienced folks here

Does a box blade generally need more "forward" tilt than "rearward" tilt? I've tried, but cannot seem to find head-on images of box blades mounted and angled at the appropriate limits.

 

[WinterDeere]

Any possibility to hold off on buying the top link, until you have your implements, or do you need to choose it now?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I think that you will find that the 18"-26" unit will serve you better.
I typically provide an 18"-25" unit with my top & tilt sets.

 

[scootr]

That's my issue, I don't have implements yet, only the flail mower. I'm asking for advice from the more experienced folks here

Does a box blade generally need more "forward" tilt than "rearward" tilt? I've tried, but cannot seem to find head-on images of box blades mounted and angled at the appropriate limits.

Box blade operation uses more downward tilt than upward.

 

[braccet]

Box blade operation uses more downward tilt than upward.

Thank you sir. By "downward", do you mean tilted like my photo, or the opposite way?

 

[braccet]

I think that you will find that the 18"-26" unit will serve you better.
I typically provide an 18"-25" unit with my top & tilt sets.

Would have loved top and tilt but my tractor only has two rear valves, and I need one for the hydraulic shift on my mower! Maybe some day I'll add the electronic diverter ($$$) to get 3.

 

[jjeff]

Why not just test each of your current implements with the existing screw-type top link, to determine the range of lengths you need, and then center the available travel of the new one upon that range? I think that's what I did, back when I chose mine, not trusting the OEM or dealer really put such effort into selecting the original.

Problems arose for me when acquiring new ground engaging implements, anyways in my experiences with hydraulic top links i wish i would have paid a few extra dollars and got a larger stroke keeping in mind retracted length.

 

[WinterDeere]

Problems arose for me when acquiring new ground engaging implements, anyways in my experiences with hydraulic top links i wish i would have paid a few extra dollars and got a larger stroke keeping in mind retracted length.

Agreed, the primary problem being that larger stroke usually comes with longer retracted length.

I was able to find one that was pretty close to the full range of my OEM top link, but I do remember confirming it against the range required for the implements I owned, as well.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Agreed, the primary problem being that larger stroke usually comes with longer retracted length.

I was able to find one that was pretty close to the full range of my OEM top link, but I do remember confirming it against the range required for the implements I owned, as well.

The issue with basing your operating range on the OEM manual top link is that about 50% of the top links provided by the OEM are WRONG. There are tractor manufacturers that provide top links that provide zero to maybe at best 1" of forward tilt with some of their models. Now if a person were to get a new top link based solely on what the OEM top link provides, well then they are going to most likely end up disatisfied with the implement performance.

I have found that if a person does what this link suggests and uses the asked for dimension as the mid stroke of the new top link, they will get very close to what would typically be considered the optimum overall working length.

 

[braccet]

The issue with basing your operating range on the OEM manual top link is that about 50% of the top links provided by the OEM are WRONG. There are tractor manufacturers that provide top links that provide zero to maybe at best 1" of forward tilt with some of their models. Now if a person were to get a new top link based solely on what the OEM top link provides, well then they are going to most likely end up disatisfied with the implement performance.

I have found that if a person does what this link suggests and uses the asked for dimension as the mid stroke of the new top link, they will get very close to what would typically be considered the optimum overall working length.

That's a great idea, I just jumped the gun and got the link before the box blade! My flail mower is maybe not the best analogy as it has a slotted top hole.

Trying to figure it out while I can still swap the link, if necessary. But I'm glad you have some experience with the Kioti CKs and most seem to be satisfied with the shorter one

 

[MtnViewRanch]

That's a great idea, I just jumped the gun and got the link before the box blade! My flail mower is maybe not the best analogy as it has a slotted top hole.

Trying to figure it out while I can still swap the link, if necessary. But I'm glad you have some experience with the Kioti CKs and most seem to be satisfied with the shorter one

Maybe I just can't see it, but you do not have to use the top slot, just use it where it is pinned in the picture.
I'm not sure that I would even want the mower moving forward or backward on its own anyway.
Think about what the mower actually does if-when it tilts backward and if you actually want the mower to move in that way.
I think that you think there is an issue when there isn't, just my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that there WILL be issues using the box blade if you go with a longer stroke top link.

Good luck with your decisions.

 

[braccet]

Maybe I just can't see it, but you do not have to use the top slot, just use it where it is pinned in the picture.
I'm not sure that I would even want the mower moving forward or backward on its own anyway.
Think about what the mower actually does if-when it tilts backward and if you actually want the mower to move in that way.
I think that you think there is an issue when there isn't, just my opinion.
I'm pretty sure that there WILL be issues using the box blade if you go with a longer stroke top link.

Good luck with your decisions.

Thanks again. Unfortunately both locations where I can attach the top link to the mower are slotted on the mower. They claim they slot them for "float", but I thought a 3 point hitch was floating by nature anyway (when all the way down).

 

[super55]

I have both sizes. If you something like Pats Easy Hitch which I do on one of my tractors the larger size works better and is almost a necessity. If you are doing standard type hook up with the lift arms then the smaller size will work.

 

[JCoastie]

2 pages already, wow. I installed some Pat's EZ Hitch adapters, at the same time I installed a hydraulic top link. I measured and the Pats moved the pins back 4 inches, so I bought a longer top link than my stock one. I found that is isn't a 1:1 ratio regarding the top link, and I could barely pick up my landscape rack high enough to clear things, so I sold the new longer hydraulic top link and ordered one with the same stroke as the stock manual one. 2 years later, no issues. So for me, stock length, or slightly shorter would be fine.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks again. Unfortunately both locations where I can attach the top link to the mower are slotted on the mower. They claim they slot them for "float", but I thought a 3 point hitch was floating by nature anyway (when all the way down).

Your 3pt hitch will always float up unless in the fully raised position. Having the position control lever in the fully lowered position allows the hitch to go as low as it can is all.

All the slot does is allow the mower to rock forward or backwards. How much depends on how you have the top link adjusted when the implement is down on the ground. This is a relatively minor amount of up-down movement compared to raising the draft arms.

I have both sizes. If you something like Pats Easy Hitch which I do on one of my tractors the larger size works better and is almost a necessity. If you are doing standard type hook up with the lift arms then the smaller size will work.

Yes, Pats QH adds 3 3/4" to the draft arm length, so a longer top link would typically be needed.

 

[scootr]

For Pats I simply made up a (removeable) mount extension at the tractor and a PTO quick coupler to make up the difference.