Echo 590 or the X Series?

[WinterDeere]

I will have to disagree. Both the farmboss and the rancher are clamshell cases and not easily split rebuildable unlike the Echo. I also find the Echo's to be better built than the cheap line of Stihl or Husky...

Good points. Echo sort of fills a nice gap between the cheap Farmboss/Rancher and the pro lines from Stihl/Husq. It was unfair of me to imply they're equivalent with regard to serviceability.

And I can run a 20" bar on my Husqvarna 550XP MKII all day in hardwoods without it skipping a beat. It's a beast of a saw! My Stihl 261 will also run a 20" blade as will my Echo 590. But typically when I need 20" I am using my Husqvarna 562XP and she's a screamer. a 50" saw isn't an ideal place for a 20" bar but some saws like the 550+XP doesn't bat an eye to it....

I'm not sure what to say to this, other than there are many variables in setup, wood, and expectations. I run full chisel chain (Stihl RS or equivalent) and set my depth gauges around .031", which takes some power to pull. I'm cutting mostly red oak, and a lot of logs large enough that the nose on my 20" bar is fully buried. I've never put that combo on any saw of any brand under 65cc and not been disappointed with how gentle I have to play it to avoid bogging. Yes, it will cut, but my God... annoyingly slow by comparison to a properly-matched motor/bar configuration.

Ignoring my little top handle, the combos I'm running today are 19" on 65cc and 28" on 85cc. Both full-comp 3/8" full-chisel RS on roller nose bars, standard 60/30/10 sharpening angles, but with depth gauges set down at .031" (factory is .026"). They pull hard and cut fast.

If I were to try to run a 20" bar on a 45-50cc saw, I think I'd set the depth gauges up around .020". That would prevent bogging, but it's going to cut 30% slower, taking a smaller bite with each tooth. Most people never adjust their depth gauges, which could explain most of the difference in experience/expectations.

 

[4570Man]

I will have to disagree. Both the farmboss and the rancher are clamshell cases and not easily split rebuildable unlike the Echo. I also find the Echo's to be better built than the cheap line of Stihl or Husky...

And I can run a 20" bar on my Husqvarna 550XP MKII all day in hardwoods without it skipping a beat. It's a beast of a saw! My Stihl 261 will also run a 20" blade as will my Echo 590. But typically when I need 20" I am using my Husqvarna 562XP and she's a screamer. a 50" saw isn't an ideal place for a 20" bar but some saws like the 550+XP doesn't bat an eye to it....

I run a 16” bar on both of my 50cc saws but if I it was the only saw I had I’d slap a 20” on it and use it. A sharp 20” would out cut a dull 16”.

 

[WinterDeere]

It's also worth looking separately at things like repairability and design lifetime, versus useability and performance. Many analogies can be made to cars, but simply put, many users may not care if the chainsaw has a split case that can be easily repaired.

 

[xyz123]

A more appropriate comparison for Echo would be the Stihl Farm Boss or the Husqvarna Rancher series. Of course Stihl and Husqvarna pro saws are going to be more expensive than Echo, what would you expect?

Here's a more useful comparison:

Stihl MS-250 Farm Boss: $399 MSRP
Husqvarna 455 Rancher: $599 MSRP

Aside from that, a 20" bar on a 45 or 50cc saw is somewhere between hopeful and stupid. Just because the oiler can support a 20" bar, doesn't mean the engine can actually pull it with the nose buried in hardwood under any reasonable pressure. Max bar length spec is a function only of what the oiler can support, not engine horsepower.

Cutting east coast hardwoods, you're going to be very disappointed trying to run a 20" bar on a 45 - 50cc saw. The guys cutting pine and fir in the PNW get away with that, but not us. Stick to 65cc or above, if you need to run a 20" bar with nose fully buried in oak or hickory.

Not even in the same league with those PLASTIC cases. I only compare MAG cased saws in same market.

We are talking 50cc MAG cased saws. Not 45cc and 56cc PLASTIC cased saws.


Those plastic saws you drop down to the lower grade echo plastic saws that are even cheaper.

I only did 20" because homeowner buyers always go for the most bar length.

Me 50cc saws I like 16" even though my echo came with 18". It came in as a trade in.

20"- 24" for me is 65cc-80cc class. But stay with 20 if able. Running 20" on my 67cc right now.

 

[Hay Dude]

I run a 20” bar on a 261C 50cc saw and it saves me from having to bend over further than a 16” bar to buck anything laying on the ground.
50+ year old people still working outside 8+ hours a day appreciate any/all tactical advantages they can get to keep working.

I get that the recommended bar length is 16-18”, but 50% of what I cut around here is pine anyway, so it works for my situation. I had little problem cutting poplar, too.

 

[xyz123]

I understand that for lot of people myself and with the bending over and the back etc etc. I am way deep into your 50+ age deal too.

But still do short bars. I even put 12" on my top handles instead of 16" like most do.

I'm just that guy that was always the big block in a vega. Even ran short bars on ported 66's 84's etc etc.
Was just fun cutting rounds licky split so quick.

 

[Hay Dude]

I understand that for lot of people myself and with the bending over and the back etc etc. I am way deep into your 50+ age deal too.

But still do short bars. I even put 12" on my top handles instead of 16" like most do.

I'm just that guy that was always the big block in a vega. Even ran short bars on ported 66's 84's etc etc.
Was just fun cutting rounds licky split so quick.


View attachment 828587

I hear ya. If I was doing firewood, I would be running shorter bars, too.

So much equipment use/style is situational. I am more of the mentality to squeeze every ounce of utility out of every dollar-hence the longest bar.

Its also known as being self employed.

 

[WinterDeere]

I run a 20” bar on a 261C 50cc saw and it saves me from having to bend over further than a 16” bar to buck anything laying on the ground.
50+ year old people still working outside 8+ hours a day appreciate any/all tactical advantages they can get to keep working.

Ever see the bow type bars that guys used to run down south? They'd be useless for a lot of what I do, but I believe the marketing behind them was almost entirely aimed at your situation, cutting logs on the ground from a standing position.



Talk about a large kickback zone! Of course, any kickback force would be far less violet, due to reduced angular velocity around a larger radius. More of a "pushback" feel than the usual snap-action behavior you get off the upper quadrant of a small bar tip.

 

[Hay Dude]

I have seen that before. Dedicated saw that Looks dangerous and takes a lot of storage space.

 

[EddieWalker]

I didn't know about that either until about a year into chainsaw ownership with my Echo CS 490.

This is the greaser I use for the roller nose.

I just ordered the Oregon Greaser from Amazon. It should be here Friday. Thanks!!!!

 

[xyz123]

Local friend put 2 bows on some saws I sold him for same reason. Not bending over.

Husky was stock and 026 was ported.


I tell you what running the 371 372 saws even stock with a bow is scary as heck. To me bows belong on slower older saws.

 

[WinterDeere]

I totally get the reasoning behind the design of the bow you show mounted on the Husqvarna, I've seen them used before, and they have their place.

But what's the purpose of the bow shape you show on that 026 PRO? Looks like it's combining the worst features of both types of bar design.

 

[4570Man]

I totally get the reasoning behind the design of the bow you show mounted on the Husqvarna, I've seen them used before, and they have their place.

But what's the purpose of the bow shape you show on that 026 PRO? Looks like it's combining the worst features of both types of bar design.

I thought a bow saw was for brush clearing? I’ve never actually had one. Why would you want one on a 327xp?

 

[5030]

The 590 Timber Bear is a full crankcase alloy block just like the bigger Echo's are. Had mine out today working on a dead (dying) apple tree and it started second pull (been sitting for a month) with Echo Red Armor in it and Menards bar oil. Ran it for a while just to exercise it a bit and switched to my ancient Stihl 028 which is (I looked at the build date, it's 45 years old) and still screams and pulls a 20" bar (greaseable nose of course with full chipper chain (no skip tooth for me) but I keep my loops sharp always and set the rakers ai 0.020. I guess if I needed a bigger saw, I have to 075 and the 090 on the shelf, drained of gas and oil that I could use. Problem is, at 73 years old, I'd have to have someone start them. Even with the compression releases I cannot pull them over anymore. Besides, the bars are huge. The 75 has a 4 foot bar on it and the 90 has a 5 footer 2 man. Bought them both new when I bought the 028. I often think about selling them both and then I forget about it. When I pass, my wife can give them away. Last time I had the muffler off the 028 to clean the spark arrestor screen I took a hard look at the piston and no marks anywhere. Took a wood stick and cleaned out the exhaust port too.

I actually have trouble starting the 590. It has really good compression, thank the Lord it has a compression release. of course I did fiddle with it a bit, I cannot keep my mitts of any saw, but nothing radical, just the muffler baffle and pulled the limiter caps. Echo likes to market their saws running a bit on the rich side and it has a Red Beard velocity stack and foam air filter on it as well. Not my first Echo either. Had a top handle Stihl professional arborist saw (700 bucks) that I ran over with the truck and squished it and I wasn't about to drop another 700 so I bought a Echo Top handle CS and typical me, I fiddled with it as well, Did the muffler. All the CS saws have a cat in the muffler but you can buy from an Echo dealer or Saw It Again, a non cat muffler so I did that and pulled the limiter caps and modded the top muffler baffle plate too. It runs pretty good, don't have quite the grunt the Stihl had but a sharp loop makes all the difference and it really light too. Lighter than the Stihl was. Nice saw for under 400 bucks. it is a clamshell however and not a Strato either.

I again will say the 028 runs better on the Red Armor 50-1 pre mix fuel than on the weasel pee ethanol with Stihl bottled oil in it. Idles better, and gets right up on the throttle instantly and no more draining fuel and drying out the carb and intake when I don't use it for months

Been a good saw all this time. It's only on it's second sparkplug too and the original greaseable roller nose Stihl bar as well. Of course all my saws lead a pampered life in the air conditioned and heated shop.

Would I ever buy another Stihl again. Nope. Far as I'm concerned Echo builds a high quality saw at a much better price point.

 

[5030]

I thought a bow saw was for brush clearing? I’ve never actually had one. Why would you want one on a 327xp?

Back when I owned and operated a tree removal company, I had one on a Poulan and I kept it maybe 2 months are sold it. I didn't like it at all and candidly didn't like the powerhead either. That Poulan was prone to vapor lock and I didn't have the time to be dealing with it so I got rid of it. Fine for bucking logs but that is about it and they can be dangerous too.

 

[4570Man]

I run a 20” bar on a 261C 50cc saw and it saves me from having to bend over further than a 16” bar to buck anything laying on the ground.
50+ year old people still working outside 8+ hours a day appreciate any/all tactical advantages they can get to keep working.

I get that the recommended bar length is 16-18”, but 50% of what I cut around here is pine anyway, so it works for my situation. I had little problem cutting poplar, too.

I like short bars on a saw. The first thing I did to my 261 was put a 16” bar on it. I run 20s on my 372 and 500i. I have a 28” and a 30” for those saws but I never use them unless absolutely necessary.

 

[5030]

Longer the bar, the heavier the saw. My 75 and 90 are tanks. I'm that way with hunting rifles too. I want a medium to long range bolt rifle that isn't over 7.7 pounds loaded and I have one but it was not a cheap date either. Total bill was almost 7 grand.

 

[4570Man]

Longer the bar, the heavier the saw. My 75 and 90 are tanks. I'm that way with hunting rifles too. I want a medium to long range bolt rifle that isn't over 7.7 pounds loaded and I have one but it was not a cheap date either. Total bill was almost 7 grand.

Not only is it heavy a long bar that sticks through the material you’re cutting by 12” or more makes an accidental ground strike way more likely.

 

[WinterDeere]

I thought a bow saw was for brush clearing?

I've always seen them used for bucking logs on the ground from a standing position. Specifically the ones with the spur type dog on the lower edge, used as a fulcrum, like this:



Versus having to squat to safely use a standard bar:



Or even worse... bending:



I've never seen them used for clearing brush.

I’ve never actually had one. Why would you want one on a 327xp?

I wouldn't.

 

[4570Man]

I've always seen them used for bucking logs on the ground from a standing position. Specifically the ones with the spur type dog on the lower edge, used as a fulcrum, like this:

View attachment 828762

Versus having to squat to safely use a standard bar:

View attachment 828763

Or even worse... bending:

View attachment 828764

I've never seen them used for clearing brush.



I wouldn't.

I took a few minutes to watch them on YouTube. I can see the appeal for cutting smaller diameter firewood on the ground but the vast majority of the users were sticking them in the dirt to finish the cut. My mini excavator fixed the bending over problem and the sticking the saw in the dirt problem. It seems like a bow bar on saw with the power of a 372 would want to run off the log into your legs and be a death machine. Even with a small saw I imagine the injury rate would be considerably higher on a number used basis.