Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[walhondingMF]

You cannot eliminate hydrocarbons.

how many gallons of lubricants are required for a wind generator?

How do you insulate electric cables with sunbeams?

hydrocarbons are essential and saying “We all do” (want to eliminate hydrocarbons) is a blatantly ridiculous assertion.

I like my hydrocarbons, especially since I am made up of so many.

In context of "we all do" in context of eliminating hydrocarbons as energy production sources, it is not blatantly ridiculous. Anyone that would not want to switch all of our energy over to fusion would be stupid (and if you noticed, that's what I said).
Asserting that anyone would want to eliminate all hydrocarbons in a literal sense is just "blatantly ridiculous."

 

[MossRoad]

And how many FF jobs were lost because of those jobs?

You can’t keep going on spouting off about solar jobs being amazing without understanding it costs jobs on the other end by elimination of the existing FF jobs!

Let's investigate that....

Solar employs 55,000 more people than oil and natural gas ever did at it's peak in the time sample.

(click to enlarge)

 

[MossRoad]

“funny.

The US does not produce any oil.”

Pedantry.


OK fine.

HYDROCARBONS EXTRACTED FEOM WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL BORDERS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Happy?

Always have been happy.

There's a huge difference between US oil (doesn't exist) and oil from within the US (sold to the highest bidder).

 

[Mtsoxfan]

Coal slag can be recycled. Paving aggregate, blasting media, etc. there may even be some materials that can be recovered and made into solar panels…

I won’t understand why solar panels are not recyclable (other than the fact that it would require more energy to recycle those materials than was used in their initial manufacture, which is certainly more energy than they will produce in their service life… )


if we went with breeder reactors, nuclear waste would not be an issue, as the waste would,be reprocessed into fuel on-site. IIRC there was a reactor planned -but cancelled- that was fully self-contained and transported out zero waste as it was all reprocessed within the facility. But the anti-nukey hysteria prevented further progress.

I never understood why Us Naval design reactors were never mass-produced (other than the NIMBY and hysteria) as they are well proven, and Navy veterans would be readily employable to run them.

I'm not sure who started that myth, windmills and solar are no recyclable...
I believe it was 6o Minutes this past Sunday that showcased a company recycling both. Like most recycling, it starts out slow, but it has started and it seemed from the segment, it is very doable...

 

[WM75Guy]

Let's investigate that....

Solar employs 55,000 more people than oil and natural gas ever did at it's peak in the time sample.

(click to enlarge)

View attachment 798623 View attachment 798624

Apples to oranges comparison, an example of selective data mining by an industry to promote its cause, in this case the solar industry. ALL solar industry jobs vs oil & gas EXTRACTION industry. The first table came from the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA). The data from the second table came from the BEA data tables for the Mining sector. You have to go to other sections of the data table, such as the second screenshot for Manufacturing, to get additional data. The third shows Transportation. Add in the midstream jobs (pipelines, transportation, etc.), refinery operations, and transportation & sales of finished products, the number of employees for the oil & gas industry would be much higher.

 

[bnold]

Wait, are we proving points to make solar/wind more attractive? I can employ less people? Need less support businesses and less reliance on the great petroleum logistics network?

 

[bvanek]

So, what is your plan?

It isn't my plan...... it had already been implemented. So anyone can talk about a good plan for America but we need someone to step up and execute it. The process is swampy to say the least but a particular businessman was willing to challenge it head on and did get some meaningful things done despite strong headwinds. Do we really need a charming personally to run our country. It's all about meaningful policy. As for my plan, I'm just an old retired farmer who may not be the smartest but i can assure you I have some wisdom living through plenty of rises and falls along the way. I learned about economics in seventh grade when it wasn't slanted with propaganda. The basics are still true today.


quit printing money to flood the market and supercharge inflation=too much money going after two few goods
educate people and reintroduce civic duty back into schools for better unity and common goals
Don't keep interest rates artificially low then raise them in a crisis.
Corporate buyouts eliminate competition and drive small businesses out. (small business and entrepreneurship has has been the backbone of our nation)
Don't spend money we don't have. When you do have a means to pay it back (like manufacturing a product) Don't raise taxes as all it does is create more inflation.(noting that the main reason for our war against Britain was due to taxation without representation)
when you pass an infrastructure bill use it to fix the broken and outdated ..don't add charging stations along a road that has Potholes (Pete) Don't spend money on fluffy special interest stuff. JOBS! and lots of them and these could be generational given the new technology and advanced systems needed to run them.
get your border secured and protect your citizens.
don't sell out to China.....

Once you get the basics taken care of and the debt under control then you can mount up and ride to the horizon...

add; some physics engineers have stated that protecting the grid can be done pretty easily and around 5 billion. Gee we sent 115 billion to Ukraine already. Go figure.

 

[Hay Dude]

Jesus this has happened in pretty much every industry for as long as industry has existed! Every time a job is automated, someone loses a job. Coal miners in Ohio and Penn have lost jobs, but NG has created many in turn. People that made buggies lost jobs when the car was created. How about the guy that made wooden buckets when the metal bucket was made. You claim that people want good, long term jobs, but then complain about the type. Pipeline work is temporary work, but a factory (regardless of what it makes) lasts a lot longer.

What’s with the “Jesus” in the start of your replies? Try to show some respect.

 

[Hay Dude]

Corporate America runs the government. They elect and appoint representatives to influence their cause....For the last several decades China and the global elites have a huge presence in how we run our country. So essentially we are already state run.
The last administration was taking steps to return power to the people and in the process preserve what has built strong economies around the world. there was no adverse effects on our local pollution levels. So depending on who's in charge we can be energy independent as a nation. That is, one geared towards serving it's people as intended.

Any business is in it for profit and often the consumer gets gouged in the process. However that was generally not the case for this brief moment in time 2017-2020......the dollar got stronger, peoples wages were up, stock market went up, inflation down, trade deficits reduced, etc. Essentially a thriving economy and the fossil fuels industries finally had the inside track on producing and drilling domestically.....The leases were stopped .....and regulations applied instantly in 2021. incentives removed away from fossil fuels and into wind and solar. (they don't want nuclear either)

No matter how you wish to spin it, the bottom dropped out. Some wind and solar promoters in here are on board with natural gas but war was declared on all fossil fuels and natural gas exploration and fracking was also on the chopping block....You see it's not about a systematic progress to cleaner energy, its about eliminating choices under authoritarian measures......The "deep state" if you will

Remember replacing fossil fuels might be inevitable....But not without enormous cost. The US is 32 trillion in debt and counting, essentially we are bankrupting ourselves. If the world switches off the US dollar we will collapse. We are in no position to a "cart before the horse" green energy advancement The "green new deal" is a socialist platform that will only be affordable and then controlled by a selected few at the top of the world stage. I do believe wind and solar will play a minor role on a small scale, perhaps in local areas, but we have a national grid that is not in place and falling apart...... nor is it protected from sabotage such as EMP's that China and our other adversaries have capabilities to knock out.

I say we wise up......

THIS ^^^^^

 

[edgarrian]

Because the effects of increased greenhouse gases are not instant, just like the potential impacts of reducing them. Original models predicted a roughly 30 year delay. It took 30 years for the hole in the ozone to start closing, but 30 years after banning CFCs, it is getting smaller.

And on the topic of the whales dying where there are wind turbines, that fake news story has been debunked. There was no evidence that wind farms had an impact on the whales. There is evidence that sonar probing methods, which are used for wind turbine sites AND off shore oil drilling both may have an impact.

So whales are dying and its been debunked but drilling may have an effect on them. I guess when the whales swim by the drilling platforms. They wait to die until they are near the offshore turbines. Hilarious. Your bias is astounding. 30 years of models can't predict anything. I keep hearing from your side that we are on the verge of climate catastrophe. Yet we are still launching rockets into space. (many of the left dont care or do the greenies) and those pesky volcanic eruptions that happen every year should put us over the edge. It never does. The failed predictions of every 10 years we must do something has come and gone since the 60s and 70s.

At least you didnt disagree about negative home values b/c of solar and wind turbines. Which is a no brainer.