Fighting 'Solar Farm' Installation

[turbo36]

And a BMW, KTM, Husaberg, Tesla, Beta, Yamaha, Honda, ...

But you promised the government would fund it for me.

Ford, GM, Dodge, they all got some kind of a bail out during the great recession.

 

[walhondingMF]

All of the surrounding states with wind farms weren’t affected by the cold weather. Even in Wyoming the windmills operate in cold weather. The wind facilities in Texas weren’t properly equipped for cold weather. The same reason why many of the Texas natural gas plants were inoperable. They didn’t winterize the facilities.

I wonder why Texas needs to winterize anything now...

 

[jyoutz]

I wonder why Texas needs to winterize anything now...

What do you mean?

 

[deezler]

Ford, GM, Dodge, they all got some kind of a bail out during the great recession.

Just to be pedantic, No, Ford did not receive a federal bail out. GM and Chrysler (Daimler) did.

 

[bnold]

Ok, I did my conversion wrong. BUT, a 7500 system under idea conditions will put out 10,000KWH max per year. These numbers are based on what the panel manufactures themselves say. They base this on ideal conditions 5 hours or so a day so there is room for error up and down. You're saying that in less than ideal conditions you are doing that? I'm asking...

Not sure where you are getting this. There are most definitely differences in panel and inverter manufacturers, efficiencies and degradation over time.

My system is way less than ideal because it is roof mounted. Not a perfect angle, not a perfect direction and some shade from tall oaks at certain times. Nonetheless, 20MWh over 12months on a 15kw system (15kw panels and 15kw inverter, I’d prefer a bit more on the panel side to make up for inefficiencies and increase area under production curve, but just don’t have the room on that roof, 42 panels east up half of my 40x50 shop roof pretty completely).

 

[TIMMYDUCK]

Low production day over at the solar farm with all this fog .

 

[WM75Guy]

It is a matter of semantics. Yes, Ford did not receive a loan or "bailout" from TARP from its start in 2008 to when payouts stopped in 2010. But Ford did receive government assistance with a $5 billion Dept of Energy loan in 2009 to help retool plants to make more energy-efficient cars. Ford also asked Congress for a $9 billion line of credit in case it needed it but did not draw funds from it. Ford lobbied for TARP to help out GM and Chrysler, as their 80% shared supply chain would have suffered if GM and Chrysler failed, so indirectly Ford benefited from TARP.

Same with solar. The solar industry has benefited from the government programs that provide tax benefits from installing a solar system at your house. But it didn't directly receive funds. Same with property tax relief for putting in solar farms. They don't receive money, they just don't have to pay as much, if any, property tax. Some solar companies have received government funds, like Solyndra, which was a disaster.

Ford Motor Co. Does U-turn on Bailouts - FactCheck.org

A Ford TV ad slams competitors for accepting bailout funds, even though the company’s CEO lobbied for the bill. The company — the only one of the Big Three not to receive a bailout — feared a collapse of GM and Chrysler at the time would have hurt suppliers and, in turn, Ford itself. Ford Chief...

www.factcheck.org

https://home.treasury.gov/data/troubled-assets-relief-program

 

[turbo36]

Just to be pedantic, No, Ford did not receive a federal bail out. GM and Chrysler (Daimler) did.

Actually they did, just not as much as Chrysler/whatever and GM. They claimed they only excepted bail out money Internet for to help the others. Kind of like being forced to grab the bag of money someone is handing you ha ha. And by the way, I am not afford hater. I have driven Ford trucks and cars for the last 30 some years, I just like to keep the record straight.

Bush bails out U.S. automakers, Dec. 19, 2008

Without federal aid, GM and Chrysler warned, they faced bankruptcy and the loss of 1 million jobs.

www.politico.com

 

[turbo36]

Low production day over at the solar farm with all this fog .

It’s also a low production day in the field that the great looking dog is standing in.

 

[Hay Dude]

How hypocritical it is to buy Chinese products mined with diesel fuel and coal power, built sometimes by slave labor, then shipped to the USA in smoke belching ships for 6,000 miles?

I crack up at Chinese made solar panels and batteries (or anything else) being labeled as “green”.
They are about as “green” as a nugget of bituminous coal and about as ethically made as a plantation making cotton in the civil war south.

 

[jcman]

This is another example of NIMBY when we really need to do more Yes In My Back Yard (YIMBY) if the world is going to solve the current climate crisis. In Thurston County Washington I was on a committee that was reviewing how to rezone arable lands so that they remain farmable. We looked at buying out development rights, transferring development rights and other options. Biggest problem was how does the county pay for the changes so it doesn't become "taking of property without fair payment"? Perhaps it would behoove a person in this situation to negotiate some of the benefits of solar so their electric bill is either reduced or eliminated. I have a covered arena with a 32 X 144 foot south facing half which would be perfect for a solar project. Problem is the power company will only reimburse me for the electricity that I use and won't buy the surplus at wholesale rates. Cuts off their noses despite their face IMO.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Why are we moving in this direction? Right now the electric grid is fine. The idea is getting away from fossil fuels but no one looks at the big picture and considers every aspect. Here are a few things to consider:
Efficiency. What's the most efficient way to produce electricity? It's hydroelectric at 85-90%.
Solar is not that efficient.
Enrichment. Do we want to enrich China...a communist enemy?
Environment. We want to get away from fossil fuels because of pollution while cutting 1000's acres trees and manufacturing panels which uses how much petroleum? That in itself creates how much pollution and CO2?
Add to all this all associated materials: inverters, transformers, sub stations, transmission lines...list goes on and on.
Spending $billions-$trillions for a cleaner planet. Really? Who believes that?
It's complete insanity.

 

[Hay Dude]

Check out this article about a large lithium deposit in Wyoming. New Wyoming Lithium Deposit could Meet all U.S. Demand | OilPrice.com.

Encouraging. Now would be the time to do it. The greens will trash anything to get their Lithium. Anything. Even China.

I just hope it’s not a piece of land the Chinese bought!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hay Dude]

Why are we moving in this direction? Right now the electric grid is fine. The idea is getting away from fossil fuels but no one looks at the big picture and considers every aspect. Here are a few things to consider:
Efficiency. What's the most efficient way to produce electricity? It's hydroelectric at 85-90%.
Solar is not that efficient.
Enrichment. Do we want to enrich China...a communist enemy?
Environment. We want to get away from fossil fuels because of pollution while cutting 1000's acres trees and manufacturing panels which uses how much petroleum? That in itself creates how much pollution and CO2?
Add to all this all associated materials: inverters, transformers, sub stations, transmission lines...list goes on and on.
Spending $billions-$trillions for a cleaner planet. Really? Who believes that?
It's complete insanity.

They whistle past the graveyard on all that stuff. Most solar panels, assembles, transformers, wiring and electrical infrastructure is made offshore, where it could be made in countries that want us destroyed, then shipped here thousands of miles on smoke belching ships.

That’s so sensible. So ethical. So “green”….

 

[bvanek]

Green energy is a scam and taking up large tracks of rural land for solar panels and windmills by using short term incentives is absolutely insane. People that buy into this have been duped and before they realize what hits them it will be too late. (the inevitable cost of this cart before the horse strategy will be astronomically huge).....We can't afford it PERIOD! Yes the global entries promoting this hoax will make billions of course. China will be the main benefactor, all at the expense of rural and middle class Americans.

CO2 is a non-toxic gas that only comprises about .003 to .007 % of our atmosphere. It is a necessary element for sustaining life and there is more natural C02 entering our atmosphere than man made emissions about 98.5 to 1.5 ratio.......satellite imagery shows a planet much greener in the past 100 years. The real science is not reaching the public. The earth has warmed 1.2 degrees in the last 250 years....yes there is climate change but man's contribution is minimal and 30 trillion solar panels and wind farms won't put a dent in C02 levels but certainly will modify our landscape to look more like man's folly.

Lets take this for what it is; a dumbed downed society that thinks C02 is responsible for climate change. If you take note of the science without an agenda you will find that rising C02 levels haven't made the planet warmer......it's the other way around .....rising temps releases much more natural C02 from the oceans, permafrost releasing methane, and dry land masses .......it's called the "carbon cycle" and it's why plants grow and why our atmosphere can sustain all forms of life. Don't confuse C02 levels with air and water polution. (Coal plants and toxic waste) mostly from China and other countries who won't be bothered by the same emission standards that is being dumped on politically tainted governments, sponsored by big corporate money, measured out for the welfare of a selected few.

Follow the money. Climate hysteria will be 10 times more toxic to our environment. Can we just pause and reflect on the economic collapse we are now experiencing because of instant forced compliance.....no science supports this action it is all about control..

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

A complete lack of logical rational thought.
Recently I was considering buying a Bobcat wheeled skid steer. The forks I could unload large bundles of hay and bucket for a couple excavation projects. My wife said whatever I want to do is fine...but how about getting frame & forks for the tractor I already have and pay my excavator friend & neighbor for the two projects. After all, the Bobcat is yet another piece of equipment to maintenance and then invest that money!
So forks are on order...made in USA.
If people would only look at things not react on impulse but reason things out.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Green energy is a scam and taking up large tracks of rural land for solar panels and windmills by using short term incentives is absolutely insane. People that buy into this have been duped and before they realize what hits them it will be too late. (the inevitable cost of this cart before the horse strategy will be astronomically huge).....We can't afford it PERIOD! Yes the global entries promoting this hoax will make billions of course. China will be the main benefactor, all at the expense of rural and middle class Americans.

CO2 is a non-toxic gas that only comprises about .003 to .007 % of our atmosphere. It is a necessary element for sustaining life and there is more natural C02 entering our atmosphere than man made emissions about 98.5 to 1.5 ratio.......satellite imagery shows a planet much greener in the past 100 years. The real science is not reaching the public. The earth has warmed 1.2 degrees in the last 250 years....yes there is climate change but man's contribution is minimal and 30 trillion solar panels and wind farms won't put a dent in C02 levels but certainly will modify our landscape to look more like man's folly.

Lets take this for what it is; a dumbed downed society that thinks C02 is responsible for climate change. If you take note of the science without an agenda you will find that rising C02 levels haven't made the planet warmer......it's the other way around .....rising temps releases much more natural C02 from the oceans, permafrost releasing methane, and dry land masses .......it's called the "carbon cycle" and it's why plants grow and why our atmosphere can sustain all forms of life. Don't confuse C02 levels with air and water solution. (Coal plants and toxic waste) mostly from China and other countries who won't be bothered by the same emission standards that is being dumped on politically tainted governments, sponsored by big corporate money, measured out for the welfare of a selected few.

Follow the money. Climate hysteria will be 10 times more toxic to our environment. Can we just pause and reflect on the economic collapse we are now experiencing because of instant forced compliance.....no science supports this action it is all about control..

Very well said.

 

[OzarkChris]

This is another example of NIMBY when we really need to do more Yes In My Back Yard (YIMBY) if the world is going to solve the current climate crisis. In Thurston County Washington I was on a committee that was reviewing how to rezone arable lands so that they remain farmable. We looked at buying out development rights, transferring development rights and other options. Biggest problem was how does the county pay for the changes so it doesn't become "taking of property without fair payment"? Perhaps it would behoove a person in this situation to negotiate some of the benefits of solar so their electric bill is either reduced or eliminated. I have a covered arena with a 32 X 144 foot south facing half which would be perfect for a solar project. Problem is the power company will only reimburse me for the electricity that I use and won't buy the surplus at wholesale rates. Cuts off their noses despite their face IMO.

As I mentioned earlier in this post, I put up a not so large solar system (16.5KW system) that is almost enough for the house (2400ft2) to come close to breaking even. That system has 40 panels (4x8') taking up ~1200ft2 (80 x 16') in one of my little meadows - I would probably need 4 more panels to cover 100% usage (96 x 16') but elec company will only allow 90% of highest month usage. This being said, I would venture to say regardless of their house orientation that A) Most big city folks don't have that much property on their lot after putting a house up and B) Most don't have houses that either have large enough roofs or roofs that can support that kind of weight (or both) and C) I still primarily use wood for my heating. I would guess that without the wood my electric bill would be much higher than it is now making the solar array much larger too!

So where do these commercial "Solar Generators" get put? Another big question is what kind of backup generator is necessary for night time use? Batteries surely won't suffice currently. I agree that battery technology has come a long way in the past 20 or so years but still, for an electric company to totally rely on "green energy" for its customers, you would probably be looking at $Millions if not $100's of millions for the batteries which will Also take up an exorbitant amount of space (and the batteries will have to be replaced every few years - causing even more toxic stuff needing places to be stored).