Understanding Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing and CDL requirements

[K5lwq]

If I ever get a ticket for not having a CDL this thread will be defense exhibit A. After me reading 181 post of people trying to understand the law I am surely going to get the case dismissed.

 

[MTGreen]

Both in Arizona and Montana when you do a title transfer on any trailer, the DMV/MVD clerk asks you what weight you want the trailer titled/registered as. I currently have 2 10k trailers and several single axle trailers so I've never needed to derate one, but I've been told it's common for 14-16k trailers to be registered as 10k in both states because of this very issue. Don't have any personal experience with title transfers in any other states nor am I at all certain it would get you out of a ticket -however it would potentially give you a platform to argue from

 

[4570Man]

One of these trucks and trailers requires a CDL and one of them doesn’t. One of them is also far more capable of stopping the load it’s hauling.

 

[jjeff]

Pic two needs some air helper springs lol. Question, I always
apparently falsely assumed the weigh master or the police would go by the actual gross combined weight of truck and trailer and not the gcwr or gross combined weight rating? If they were to ticket you for not having a CDL? Example would be let's say your gcwr is 40k (CDL territory) but your actual weight with the load your hauling weighs in at under 26k less than CDL territory. There are quite a few older equipment trailers used non commercialy out there where the gwr tags aren't on the trailer anymore.

 

[Hay Dude]

Pic two needs some air helper springs lol. Question, I always
apparently falsely assumed the weigh master or the police would go by the actual gross combined weight of truck and trailer and not the gcwr or gross combined weight rating? If they were to ticket you for not having a CDL? Example would be let's say your gcwr is 40k (CDL territory) but your actual weight with the load your hauling weighs in at under 26k less than CDL territory. There are quite a few older equipment trailers used non commercialy out there where the gwr tags aren't on the trailer anymore.

Remember, you buy what weight rating you want, thats your GCWR. In PA we have a window sticker that shows weight class. That quickly ID’s your registered gross combined weight rating.
If you get pulled over with a truck and trailer and they suspect a weight issue, they will scale your individual axles, coming up with a weight for each one. That is to see if any axles are overloaded. Then they add them all together to see if you are over on your GCWR.
There’s several ways they can get you.
You can be over on an individual axle, over on a registered GCWR or over on a GVWR.
Then there’s the myriad of things they can find wrong with truck or trailer (lights, tires, brakes, leaks, missing parts, missing documents, decals, IFTA stickers, etc.)

 

[Hay Dude]

Maybe this will help.

The red circle is what you are citing......

The green line is the flow you would take for a 26k truck and a 10k trailer

View attachment 793698

I think this is so easy to understand. I don’t know why people continue to not understand
It’s like they want to make trouble for themselves?

 

[Hay Dude]

The problem is that the law isn't entirely clear and thus some of this is up to the cop & judge. We can make the best stab at it though...
Also note that CA is likely not the only exception. Most of the states just echo the federal regulations, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple other exceptions out there.

*GCWR, not GVWR.

What’s specifically not clear?

Like let’s try it this way:
Post your scenario. Then we can say if you need a CDL, or don’t need a CDL. Maybe that will work (except in bizarre states with their own crazy regs)

 

[MGP4506]

The problem is that the law isn't entirely clear and thus some of this is up to the cop & judge. We can make the best stab at it though...
Also note that CA is likely not the only exception. Most of the states just echo the federal regulations, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple other exceptions out there.

*GCWR, not GVWR.

Go to www.fmcsa.dot.gov. Go to the regulations section. You can look at the license class groups. Also, I believe just about every state DMV has a CDL flow chart. If not I am sure, you can google one. If you follow the flow chart and don't skip a step, you can't go wrong. And no the police and courts don't make it up.

 

[4570Man]

Pic two needs some air helper springs lol. Question, I always
apparently falsely assumed the weigh master or the police would go by the actual gross combined weight of truck and trailer and not the gcwr or gross combined weight rating? If they were to ticket you for not having a CDL? Example would be let's say your gcwr is 40k (CDL territory) but your actual weight with the load your hauling weighs in at under 26k less than CDL territory. There are quite a few older equipment trailers used non commercialy out there where the gwr tags aren't on the trailer anymore.

I could back the skid steer up a foot but the rock hound was previously on the back of the trailer. I used to believe that they went by actual weight but that’s apparently wrong. My current believe is if I hooked the 14k trailer that’s on the white truck to my dually with a GVW of 12,500 it would require a CDL. The dump truck pulling that trailer is rated to 53,000 pounds. The actual weight with just one skid steer is still beyond 26k so there’s no question about that one needing a CDL which I have. If I’m hauling that yellow trailer I usually put both skid steers or one skid steer and my mini excavator on it.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I could back the skid steer up a foot but the rock hound was previously on the back of the trailer. I used to believe that they went by actual weight but that’s apparently wrong. My current believe is if I hooked the 14k trailer that’s on the white truck to my dually with a GVW of 12,500 it would require a CDL. The dump truck pulling that trailer is rated to 53,000 pounds. The actual weight with just one skid steer is still beyond 26k so there’s no question about that one needing a CDL which I have. If I’m hauling that yellow trailer I usually put both skid steers or one skid steer and my mini excavator on it.

Pretty much if you hook a dually 1 ton pickup to a 14k rated trailer, If the pickup was made in the last 10 years, you need a CDL, even empty…

I think this has been solved properly by the states that allow you to register your truck and trailer at a specific weight. That way you can be safely under the limit of the truck/trailer and still not need a CDL. I would then register my 1 ton for 9900 and my trailer for 16000 and never haul above those numbers and not need a cdl and be 80% of the specs of the truck/trailer