New rules for ethanol in gasoline

[5030]

Something else that a lot of people don't realize and that is Propane don't come from the ground like NG or crude oil and a lot of people heat with Propane (including me). Propane is cracked from crude oil in a catalytic cracker just like diesel or gasoline or other petroleum products are. Unlike gasoline and other petro based products however, propane can be stored in underground caverns which is what they do here and in Sarnia, Ontario. Propane is 100% man made.

 

[jyoutz]

The cornlobby is too strong.

Chuck Grassley

 

[jjeff]

Interesting thread I read maybe on here ethanol is an octane booster to replace MTBE which is bad for groundwater and the environment compared to ethanol? Unfortunately corn based ethanol causes phase separation I know in other countries mostly south America I believe, they use switch grass that's cheaper to grow and produces better results I've read.apologize for not providing a link or source. I do know the major power sports companies seem to be switching to efi systems, even simpler throttle body designs on entry level contraptions to help combat burning down the top end, carb issues, when running ethanol and to better meet EPA and eu regs. Personally I hate ethanol blended fuel (and I don't hate anything besides snakes lol) and from firsthand experience never had as many carburator problems or top end issues on two strokes especially, or other power sports equipment until ethanol became more prevalent. Rants over enlighten me, I feel better lol.

 

[drssg]

so going back to OP, does availability of ethanol free fuel depend on demographic demand in each locale, or is it a matter of state/local regulation, or lobbyists?

I don't know what controls it, but I found this site, which indicates where/if it's sold in your area.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

 

[jyoutz]

Read it in the local rag this morning (AP article) so I had no link as it wasn't on the net to begin with and I didn't look.

If you leave e-gas in a carb without additive for an extended period, it will separate (called phase shift) and the water will most certainly corrode the inside of the carb and clog the jets. Been there and done that more than once. I imagine that an EFI engine is less impacted but something with a carb is.

Why all my small stuff (chainsaws and weed eaters) are now on synthetic fuel). All carbed and all susceptible tp getting gunked up and the chainsaws with their diaphragm carbs especially.

I always use Marine Stabil in the mowers as they sit all winter with full fuel tanks but phase shift is still an issue.

Most small engines don't like e-gas. They will tolerate 10% but 15% could spell death for them. In fact, most newer small engines state that right on the fuel tank or on the gas cap for a reason.

Both of our vehicles are flex fuel which means the fuel delivery components are tolerant of alcohol though I've never used it and it is widely available here.

I get 40 on regular anyway, good enough for me as I don't drive all that much anyway.

Even states in our owners manuals that using E85 will decrease the fuel mileage. I imagine that Fords (my car) and GM (my wife's Suburban) know what they are talking about.

I know on my car it states in the owners manual to run a tank of regular unleaded every 4th tankfull. Why I don't know.

Several years ago, I started buying ethanol free gas for all my small engines. It costs more and is only available in premium grade, but no more gummed up carburetors.

 

[etpm]

Ethanol is nothing more than an Octane Booster.

View attachment 786614

Ethanol may be added to gasoline as "nothing more than an octane booster", I don't know. But it certainly does more that raise octane. Besides attacking some types of plastics and rubbers it also corrodes some aluminum alloys. Unfortunately some small engines carbs are made of aluminum alloys that ethanol corrodes. This corrosion does indeed leave behind "gunk" in passages. I guess it may rely on your definition of gunk whether the corrosion products found in carbs could be called gunk. Nevertheless corrosion products from ethanol exposure can be found in small engine carbs and these products not only tend to clog up passages they also make passages larger while at the same time cause pitting in these passages which can affect the even flow of air and fuel through these passages. So once the gunk is cleaned out of the passages the carbs will not meter fuel the same because the larger passages let more fuel flow through. The pitting of course causes turbulence. I imagine this turbulence would probably have more of an effect on air flow than fuel flow but I don't know.
Eric

 

[etpm]

Interesting thread I read maybe on here ethanol is an octane booster to replace MTBE which is bad for groundwater and the environment compared to ethanol? Unfortunately corn based ethanol causes phase separation I know in other countries mostly south America I believe, they use switch grass that's cheaper to grow and produces better results I've read.apologize for not providing a link or source. I do know the major power sports companies seem to be switching to efi systems, even simpler throttle body designs on entry level contraptions to help combat burning down the top end, carb issues, when running ethanol and to better meet EPA and eu regs. Personally I hate ethanol blended fuel (and I don't hate anything besides snakes lol) and from firsthand experience never had as many carburator problems or top end issues on two strokes especially, or other power sports equipment until ethanol became more prevalent. Rants over enlighten me, I feel better lol.

Ethanol is ethanol, no matter if made from corn, rice, barley, grapes, or synthesized from crude oil. Switch grass may be a cheaper feedstock than corn but the ethanol produced from it is the same chemical as the ethanol produced by any other source. That's why it is specifically called ethanol, and not just alcohol. There are many alcohols and ethanol is just one of them.
Eric

 

[Wagtail]

WOW! You blokes are screwed.

Fortunately our Aussie ethanol is cane sugar based, but even then we still have the option of paying 1 cent more per litre for 'straight' petrol... which I do pay for my ute, Z-turn and 2-stroke (prior to mixing).

Regarding the Ute, the 'mileage' is significantly better than the (up to 10%) ethanol blend and worth the cost.

 

[California]

WOW! You blokes are screwed.

We have the finest Congress that money can buy ....

 

[Torvy]

Ethanol is ethanol, no matter if made from corn, rice, barley, grapes, or synthesized from crude oil. Switch grass may be a cheaper feedstock than corn but the ethanol produced from it is the same chemical as the ethanol produced by any other source. That's why it is specifically called ethanol, and not just alcohol. There are many alcohols and ethanol is just one of them.
Eric

My oldest did his Master's Thesis on switch grass as a biofuel (ChemE). His project was attempting to make the extraction process more efficient. Ultimately, there was only so much that could be done to make it cost effective, and it wasn't.

 

[cqaigy2]

Using Tru-Fuel but Echo and Stihl also sell their own branded syn fuels. They wouldn't be economical for a tree company but work well for an occasional user like me. Not cheap however. I pay about 40 bucks a gallon at Lowes for the stuff but unlike e-gas, the life in a 2 stroke gas tank is at least 5 years and all my 2 stroke engines run better on it. I have a balky Stihl that is over 40 years old (bought new) that refuses to idle on pump gas, idles just fine on syn fuel.

Weird, my 40 year old Stihl runs fine on pump gas, E10. I've not tried the syn fuel yet but have used non-ethanol. Couldn't tell the difference in either, but maybe the syn gas might run better. Full disclosure on the Stihl, i modded the exhaust and tuned the carb when i first bought it, so that might make it run different. Is there a shelf life on the opened or unopened syn gas?

 

[cqaigy2]

WOW! You blokes are screwed.

Fortunately our Aussie ethanol is cane sugar based, but even then we still have the option of paying 1 cent more per litre for 'straight' petrol... which I do pay for my ute, Z-turn and 2-stroke (prior to mixing).

Regarding the Ute, the 'mileage' is significantly better than the (up to 10%) ethanol blend and worth the cost.

My non scientific swag, showed worse mileage with E85, but better lugging and nice exceleration. Tried non-E one time when i was getting some for my smaller engines to try out, and didn't really notice any difference between the E10 and non-E.

 

[5030]

carburator problems or top end issues on two strokes

Why I switched to syn fuel. Not cheap but the in tank life is at least 5 years and no gumming up the works.

 

[5030]

Weird, my 40 year old Stihl runs fine on pump gas, E10. I've not tried the syn fuel yet but have used non-ethanol. Couldn't tell the difference in either, but maybe the syn gas might run better. Full disclosure on the Stihl, i modded the exhaust and tuned the carb when i first bought it, so that might make it run different. Is there a shelf life on the opened or unopened syn gas?

You have to 'mod' a late model Stihl as Stihl has succumbed to the noise police. I open them all up. 5 years minimum on syn fuel. In the tank or in the can.

My 45 years old 028 would not idle on regular unleaded. Now, it idles fine. Starts easier too.

 

[Jstpssng]

When I lived in Maine, the only ethanol free fuel I could find was at the airports, and most would not sell to you. Where I am in VA, there are several stations that sell E0.

That must have been a while ago. I've been buying ethanol free for my small engines for years. It used to be just small independent stations selling it, but yesterday I noticed one of the big chains is offering what they call "Recreational" gas. Most places it's been 90 octane, my sled takes 91 but it's got a newly designed engine so should be able to handle ethanol.

I keep threatening to run a few tanks through my pickup to see what that does to mileage. It seems like when we went to e-10 it dropped about 10%.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Makes no sense at all.
I posted it because if I can't get gas anymore that's what it'll cost me. Roughly CAN$7 a liter for true fuel where as now buying gas and two stroke oil it's roughly CAN$2 a liter

Cheaper to separate the alcohol from the gas. Use that in your small engines. Pour the 10% you got from your gas can into your auto in hot months.

 

[deserteagle71]

Owner's manual for my new lawn mower specifically states to avoid using any gas with alcohol in it because alcohol will rot any rubber lines and gaskets and corrode aluminum alloy. I'm lucky in that we do have one station selling ethanol-free gas - costs ~ $1 a gallon more than regular gas with alcohol but the octane rating is still the same.

 

[DK35vince]

The fuel cap on my Kawasaki powered zero turn says on it.
"Higher than E10 fuel voids warranty"

 

[jjeff]

One thing Ive done to try and combat ethanol problems especially on older smaller engine junk I acquire with fuel system problems anyway. I try and use viton orings/needles where applicable and I use tygon for fuel lines. Fortunately I can afford to buy non ethanol fuel around me, I still buy and use seafoam liberally.

 

[MossRoad]

I feel left out of the club because I've been using E10 in everything I own since the 80s with no fuel related problems ever. Go figure?