New (used) IH 7500 Dump Truck purchase, modification & fix up

[mrmikey]

It could be done for sure, a lot of work not to mention the initial cost of two bodies. I don't think it's a project I'd want to do.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Hey, scars are sexy, and you're doing great work with that truck.

 

[Hay Dude]

Not scars...character .


What about just going with a turn down? If you can get away from a vertical stack it my prevent problems with a cab shield depending on the type and style of body you find.
You're lucky, there's no DPF or SCR to worry about. The newer trucks I was working on had $15-20K of exhaust crap behind the cab and enough structure to support a car bridge holding it up. Not only that, since it was an engineered system you couldn't move a thing from factory...nothing.

You get the frame flanges flattened down some? They don't look as angled up as they were.


Gonna have to watch your drive line angles too

It won’t be too expensive to fab & weld a new pipe. I’m not a big fan of weed burners for my application. Fire in off road scenarios scares the crap outta me and this truck will be off road.
The frame flanges are same as they were. I don’t know how wise it is to beat them down??? I was afraid they would crack at the radius curve where they turn down? So I never tried. I was thinking the dump body would eventually bend them back a bit

So far, I have seen about 1/2 dozen 10’ bodies. If I wanted an aluminum body, I’d have it by now. They are all over the place for 4-6K. I guess they are removed from state trucks-especially the ones with DPF/DEF with early failure engines that they scrap???
Steel 10’ in good shape is not easy, but easier than 12’.
Still haven’t seen any 11’s, except for some low side contractors light duty. Did see a 10’-6”, but too far away.

I still think a 12’ is possible.….if the lift cylinder is in a dog house inside the dump box, is 10” still required from the back of the cab? Would a frame mounted hoist be able to get any closer? I still prefer telescoping.

 

[Hay Dude]

Here’s the plan on the exhaust:

International wants $900 for the piece to the clamp.
That price doesn’t even include the 5” basic stack!!

 

[mrmikey]

I don’t know how wise it is to beat them down??

Nada, I wouldn't, must have been an optical illusion.

I was thinking the dump body would eventually bend them back a bit

Don't think, you're more apt to wear into the body from the sharp edge of the bent up frame flange

If I wanted an aluminum body, I’d have it by now.

Couldn't pay me enough to get an aluminum anything that moves on the road. Once they break they are an extreme pia to fix properly.

….if the lift cylinder is in a dog house inside the dump box, is 10” still required from the back of the cab?

Nope, just leave whatever clearance you feel you need for the 'fudge factor' should something move, a couple of inches

I still prefer telescoping.

Yup.
The scissor type lift puts an unreal amount of strain on anything until it's gets up a bit. Almost like pushing the body apart.
You want to see something strain, look at an older salt spreader body like the one you had with the side dump cylinders almost horizontal when it's trying to reload the spreader chain. The cylinders on some of the brands I had worked on were a 10" diameter cylinder, two of them pushing out on the side dump section of the body almost parrallel to the bottom of the body. They'd work ok brand new, couple or year old rusty body they'd push it apart especially if the operator tried to reload the spreader chain before the salt had been used up. The newer ones are more vertical so it's not as bad.

International wants $900 for the piece to the clamp.

Sheesh, they're really proud of that piece aren't they. For that it should come with free install FFS.

 

[Hay Dude]

Beautiful 10’ Aluminum state truck bodies for 6K.

Would sell for 20K today

 

[mrmikey]

They are nice looking, they're used?. Only good for cotton balls and topsoil IMHO

 

[Hay Dude]

They are nice looking, they're used?. Only good for cotton balls and topsoil IMHO

Yeah I keep thinking the floor & sides could be lined with steel sheet, but then I get my reality check….

Maybe I have to start re-thinking this

The last 12” of frame are pretty bad. Thats the “fulcrum” for the dump bed, right? You want a lot of strength there, right? Is there a way to reinforce the last few feet of frame? I don’t know.

I am not an expert with truck restoration and body installation, but if I can be flexible to a 10,11, or 12’ bed it’s better than spending the money to move axle forward, and loose usable length.

I just don’t know how to reinforce it….

 

[mrmikey]

Only way I can see to reinforce it would be to remove the two rear crossmembers and narrow it up by 1/2" or so. Fab two bent channels 3" x 10" (or whatever leg length would fit inside the frame ) from 1/4" plate, that would run from the tailplate forward to at least midway between the spring hangers or further if you want.
I don't think it would be all that hard to do. Split the crossmembers in two with a recip saw (stagger the cuts), remove the rear spring perch and stop bolts, remove the crossmembers and shorten them up by 1/2" and weld them back together. Slip the bent piece of channel inside the frame, drill the holes and reinstall the crossmember.

 

[Hay Dude]

Only way I can see to reinforce it would be to remove the two rear crossmembers and narrow it up by 1/2" or so. Fab two bent channels 3" x 10" (or whatever leg length would fit inside the frame ) from 1/4" plate, that would run from the tailplate forward to at least midway between the spring hangers or further if you want.
I don't think it would be all that hard to do. Split the crossmembers in two with a recip saw (stagger the cuts), remove the rear spring perch and stop bolts, remove the crossmembers and shorten them up by 1/2" and weld them back together. Slip the bent piece of channel inside the frame, drill the holes and reinstall the crossmember.

Probably a bit cheaper than moving axle, I would think. Gives me back the possibility of 12’ dump.…..
I hate decisions like this.

It is easier (somewhat) to find a 10 than a 12 though.
None are really easy to find. Price of new bodies (steel) is so unbelievably high that used bodies are now expensive and rare.

 

[mrmikey]

Probably a bit cheaper than moving axle, I would think.

I would think if you're doing the all labour yourself (other than bending the plate and shortening the driveshaft obviously), by the time you have to buy the plate and get it bent or send the driveshaft out and get it shortened, moving the axles ahead would be cheaper for out of pocket expenses
Saying that, going with the reinforced tail end and leaving the CA as it is would give you what you really want, (admit it ) the possibility of 12' body, so, thinking like you I'd go the reinforced frame. Another advantage of leaving the frame length as is, you don't have to monkey with a drive train that you know works as far as angles and lengths go.
For material, going on the assumption the frame is 10" deep with a 3" flange you're gonna need two pieces of 1/4" plate 16"± x 6' ? +, and a couple of small pieces to reinforce the cross members where you splice them back together and an hour shearing and bending, so 'bout $150 labour.

Price of new bodies (steel) is so unbelievably high that used bodies are now expensive and rare

I've heard that bodies I had bought for <$22K no more than 2-3 years ago are now going for $32K>. Riduculous.....but as long as people pay the price, that's where they'll stay. The unfortunate thing is a lot of people don't have a choice.

 

[Hay Dude]

I found a beautiful brand new Beau Roc AR450 11’ body with all accessories (lights, hoist, cab shield, plates, etc) for $11,500.
I would probably have another $5,000 in pump, lines and cab controls.

Whew! I need a money printing press.

 

[mrmikey]

I found a beautiful brand new Beau Roc AR450 11’ body with all accessories (lights, hoist, cab shield, plates, etc) for $11,500.

Good on you HD !!, congrats, they make a nice heavy body or they used to 7 or so years ago . Now you can get started on the chassis

Whew! I need a money printing press.

I'd loan you mine but the inks dried up

 

[Hay Dude]

$12,000 for a body and however many more thousands for pump, control tower, etc is probably a fantasy
Back to looking for used bodies.
Man, are they hard to find. Easy to understand why.


Now, do I shorten the truck and wheelbase to address the rust on the end of the frame, or try to reinforce it?

Here’s what I am thinking now: Overlay a piece of inverted “L” on outside of frame on the last 5-6 feet. Enough to capture rear and front hangers. This way I don’t have to cut the cross webs-which looks very time consuming. My rear spring U-bolts look pretty shot anyway, so I was thinking of replacing them, too. The only thing I don’t know is if the spring packs are resting on a pin or not???

Would overlaying only the last 6’ of frame screw-up the way the dump body long sills sit on the frame? Should I just overlay the entire length up to the cab? Overlay the whole frame would cost more, but it would also add strength and a very smooth surface to the look of the frame.

 

[mrmikey]

That'll knock your spring mounts out of whack in the outboard direction, maybe 1/4" won't make much difference but something to keep in mind. I've run into pins in the hanger before, unfortunately I can't remember the brand. See if you can get a look at a new hanger.
It's going to make it a bit wonky ahead of the reinforcement and the body won't be sitting on anything, I don't think it's a method I'd recommend IMHO

Ever considered a subframe for the body? It'll cure three problems, the bent up flange of the frame, the edge of the frame won't be wearing into the body rails and it'll also reinforce the aft end of the frame.
2 x 3 x 1/4" HSS only weights 7 lbs per ft so 24 ft plus a couple of 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle crossmembers will only add 400lbs±. Not to mention you can also incorporate the dump cylinder mount as well as the tipping hinge into it. You could have one good size cheek plate at the rear wrapped around the hinge and bolted full height of the truck frame as far forward as the spring hanger. Another mid way between the spring as I see one hole there already and another at the front by the cylinder mount. Just a thought

 

[dodge man]

Just thinking out loud but how bad is the back of that frame? I’d think it’d be easier to leave it alone or reinforce it rather than mess with shortening the frame and moving the axle.

 

[Hay Dude]

That'll knock your spring mounts out of whack in the outboard direction, maybe 1/4" won't make much difference but something to keep in mind. I've run into pins in the hanger before, unfortunately I can't remember the brand. See if you can get a look at a new hanger.
It's going to make it a bit wonky ahead of the reinforcement and the body won't be sitting on anything, I don't think it's a method I'd recommend IMHO

Ever considered a subframe for the body? It'll cure three problems, the bent up flange of the frame, the edge of the frame won't be wearing into the body rails and it'll also reinforce the aft end of the frame.
2 x 3 x 1/4" HSS only weights 7 lbs per ft so 24 ft plus a couple of 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle crossmembers will only add 400lbs±. Not to mention you can also incorporate the dump cylinder mount as well as the tipping hinge into it. You could have one good size cheek plate at the rear wrapped around the hinge and bolted full height of the truck frame as far forward as the spring hanger. Another mid way between the spring as I see one hole there already and another at the front by the cylinder mount. Just a thought

I’m not following everything you say, but do you mean buying a dumptruck bed with a subframe?
Wouldn’t that mean a scissor hoist instead of a tele hoist?

Don‘t have a problem with that type of hoist, but always thought they were inferior.

I don’t understand fully the rest of what you speak of with the cheek plate….
Will adding a typical pintle plate help strengthen? I think so, but wanted to mention I plan on doing that too

 

[mrmikey]

Drew this up in a hurry, 'scuse the crudeness .
The truck frame will actually extend under the tipping hinge, I just never drew it. The dump cylinder mount will be at the front from side to side.

Don‘t have a problem with that type of hoist, but always thought they were inferior.

As do I, the inferior part that is

I’m not following everything you say, but do you mean buying a dumptruck bed with a subframe?

You could but I doubt if you'd get one exactly what you want, make one...after all, it's just a rectangular frame made from rectangular HSS and a couple bits of angle.

Will adding a typical pintle plate help strengthen? I think so, but wanted to mention I plan on doing that too

Mehhhh, can't see how. You could weld the tailplate to the underside of the tipping hinge angle (which is already welded to the HSS and the rear mount plate) the one with the four± bolts

T

 

[Hay Dude]

Ok, so if I buy a used or new bed with a Tele hoist, can this subframe still be utilized? Or would the cylinder be too short since the bed is now sitting on a sub frame? Or are you suggesting mounting the telescoping cylinder cradle up on the subframe, too?

I like the rear fish plate. That would help “patch” the bad spot perfectly, but the problem is, the rear plate is where the rear spring hanger is.

The 6 bolt holes for the patch could be mated up with the 6 bolt holes already in the spring hanger and the frame.

 

[mrmikey]

I found a couple of old pics I had taken of a tailplate, two 1/2" NPT couplings either side for trailer air, center hole for electrical, bottom holes for a 50T air cushion pintle hitch and of course the D rings. If it's in your budget, the air cushion pintle saves a lot of banging, not cheap tho.
I've got the drawings I had made for subframes but unfortunately I no longer use nor have the software they were created in.

Ok, so if I buy a used or new bed with a Tele hoist, can this subframe still be utilized?

Sure, all you're effectively doing is moving the frame up 3", just treat it like the truck frame. Not saying there' isn't going to be some customizing but I can't see why it wouldn't be minimal.

I like the rear fish plate. That would help “patch” the bad spot perfectly, but the problem is, the rear plate is where the rear spring hanger is.

As long as it's not paper thin and Swiss cheese, the subframe should bridge the bad area. The subframe is running front to back, so with the dump body dumping, the rear of the frame is partially in compression. Yes there is still some vertical load but the subframe will help spread it out.

The 6 bolt holes for the patch could be mated up with the 6 bolt holes already in the spring hanger and the frame.

Ideally yes that would be the cats ass but I don't think much of the idea of moving the hangers out the thickness of the plates.
You think they'll be able to be moved out with no problem with anything clashing?