Please educate me about ultra low sulfur diesel

[etpm]

Almost two years ago I bought a 1980 or 1981 Yanmar YM2310 diesel engined tractor. The tractor starts and runs great. Since i bought it I have put about 80 hours on it. This tractor is my first diesel engined anything. Per the advice from TBN I do use a fuel additive that is supposed to increase the cetane and lubricity of the fuel. My tractor did start easier after I added the stuff, but it had not been started for two years before I added it and I continue to add it so I don't know if it is still doing any good.
I am curious though about just how bad ultra low sulfur diesel fuel is. I read stuff here on a regular basis where people are complaining about ULSD fuel. How they blame ULSD fuel for the problems their engine is having.
It reminds me of when the change to no lead gasoline happened. I know that lead in gasoline raised the octane rating and cushioned exhaust valves to some extent and there were for sale products that were supposed to ameleriorate the effects of unleaded gasoline. But I never used any of these products on my old engines. I used to restore antique outboard engines and I always used regular gas in them. I also restored small 4 stroke engines and they all ran great using unleaded gas. My 1939 Ford 9N has always run great using low octane unleaded gas.
So I don't understand when folks here complain about ultra low sulfur diesel. Some folks complain about their particular state having ULSD and it is causing them problems and if only they lived somewhere else they wouldn't have the problems. I thought all states used ULSD.
Anyway, as far as I know, here in WA State all we have available for on the road diesel is ULSD and I use on the road diesel. And I while don't know how much of a difference the tiny amount of additive I use does I can't imagine it makes the difference between a good running engine and an engine that is hard to start and runs poorly.
Is ULSD really the reason for lots of poorly running diesel engines?
Thanks,
Eric

 

[jyoutz]

Almost two years ago I bought a 1980 or 1981 Yanmar YM2310 diesel engined tractor. The tractor starts and runs great. Since i bought it I have put about 80 hours on it. This tractor is my first diesel engined anything. Per the advice from TBN I do use a fuel additive that is supposed to increase the cetane and lubricity of the fuel. My tractor did start easier after I added the stuff, but it had not been started for two years before I added it and I continue to add it so I don't know if it is still doing any good.
I am curious though about just how bad ultra low sulfur diesel fuel is. I read stuff here on a regular basis where people are complaining about ULSD fuel. How they blame ULSD fuel for the problems their engine is having.
It reminds me of when the change to no lead gasoline happened. I know that lead in gasoline raised the octane rating and cushioned exhaust valves to some extent and there were for sale products that were supposed to ameleriorate the effects of unleaded gasoline. But I never used any of these products on my old engines. I used to restore antique outboard engines and I always used regular gas in them. I also restored small 4 stroke engines and they all ran great using unleaded gas. My 1939 Ford 9N has always run great using low octane unleaded gas.
So I don't understand when folks here complain about ultra low sulfur diesel. Some folks complain about their particular state having ULSD and it is causing them problems and if only they lived somewhere else they wouldn't have the problems. I thought all states used ULSD.
Anyway, as far as I know, here in WA State all we have available for on the road diesel is ULSD and I use on the road diesel. And I while don't know how much of a difference the tiny amount of additive I use does I can't imagine it makes the difference between a good running engine and an engine that is hard to start and runs poorly.
Is ULSD really the reason for lots of poorly running diesel engines?
Thanks,
Eric

Modern diesel engines are designed for using ULS diesel. I don’t put additives in my truck tank, but I do use the additives in the fuel tank for tractor fuel. Because that tank of fuel isn’t used as fast as the fuel in the truck.

 

[deserteagle71]

Modern diesel engines are designed for using ULS diesel. I don’t put additives in my truck tank, but I do use the additives in the fuel tank for tractor fuel. Because that tank of fuel isn’t used as fast as the fuel in the truck.

Correct. However, OP is using a 42 year old tractor, long before the advent of ULSD. My John Deere is 60 years old. The sulfur in the pre-ULSD diesel acted as a lubricant so now I make sure to use an additive that increases the lubricity of the ULSD. It may not be necessary for the [AFFILIATE=1, nofollow=true, newwindow=true, title="Kubota"]Kubota[/AFFILIATE] but I want to make sure the old John Deere is happy with its diet!

 

[Monster5601]

So I don't understand when folks here complain about ultra low sulfur diesel. Some folks complain about their particular state having ULSD and it is causing them problems and if only they lived somewhere else they wouldn't have the problems. I thought all states used ULSD.

I don't recall any post of a problem running ULSD fuel. I picked up a 2022 RAM ECODiesel and was somewhat surprised to see this in the manual;

"Under normal conditions the diesel fuel filter should be replaced every 20,000 miles (32,000 km) (every other oil change). If the vehicle is being used in severe operating conditions, or in certain geographical areas of the country (Pennsylvania, New York, Ohio, Maryland, West Virginia, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, Missouri and Nebraska) due to fuel cleanliness issues, it’s recommended to replace the fuel filter every 10,000 miles (16,000 km)."

This suggests that diesel fuel in various parts of the US has differences.

 

[mikester]

So I don't understand when folks here complain about ultra low sulfur diesel.

NIMBY
It is impossible to have 100% agreement on anything and someone will always complain about something. A percentage of that group will fabricate bizarre conspiracy theories to support their claims and be militant in their beliefs.

 

[Tinhack]

As indicated above.

 

[Wolfy]

Many people "have heard" of injection pump issues in old diesels using ULSD but I doubt they are true. I run it in my 1973 Ford backhoe and my father runs in his 1973 Ford dump truck with a 8V71 Detroit with zero issues.

 

[mo1]

The sulfur in diesel fuel did give some lubrication to the fuel system. However, there are lubricity tests in the ASTM D975 diesel fuel standard and the fuel companies simply add lubricity additives if needed to their ULSD so it passes the standard. As far as I am aware, the lubricity standards did not change with the ULSD switchover, so if the older higher-sulfur fuels were fine, so is ULSD. Also note that the amount of sulfur in off-road diesel fuel had already been decreasing significantly prior to ULSD, before 1993 off-road diesel could have up to about 30,000 parts per million (3%) sulfur, this was decreased to <3000 ppm in 1993, <500 ppm in 2006, and 15 ppm ULSD in 2010.

ULSD has been mandated for off-road diesel fuel since 2010. Off-road diesel since then has only differed from road diesel in that there's a red dye and no road tax for the off road stuff. If we were going to see a rash of engine failures due to ULSD, we should have seen it already. If anything, I'd expect that older engines may actually last longer running ULSD as the much lower sulfuric acid levels in the engine oil leads to longer oil life as depletion of acid neutralizers in the oil was one major limit on diesel engine oil life in the past.

 

[Tinhack]

companies simply add lubricity additives if needed to their ULSD so it passes the standard

I guarantee they are not doing that for free. That's one of the reasons diesel costs more now days.

 

[Blue Mule]

Modern diesel injection systems operate at extremely high pressures, and the lack of lubricity in ULSD fuel is why pumps grenade all the time. It's why all three major pickup truck makers in this country have gone through extensive recalls on the injection systems and they've spent fortunes to retrofit trucks with better pumps that can handle the ULSD fuel.

Conversely, older diesel systems would run on almost anything. They're lower pressure systems that are not finnicky at all.

Therefore, an old tractor would accept ULSD easily with no additive. But on a new tractor or truck I would make sure to use a quality additive. Hot Shots brand makes stuff that actually works.

 

[Avenger]

I've never heard of people having issues, well, people in person anyway. The internet is full of people's experiences weather they are true and accurate or not.

On a different thread I talked about getting my childhood tractor back. Its a late 60's early 70's IH 656. Growing up on the farm, we had an inground fuel tank with a very old gas pump. We would get bulk fuel delivered to that tank. That is until the tank developed a leak. Then we put a big tank up on a stand and used gravity to fill the tractors. That tank is still there, and still fills the tractors on the farm.

At some point between 1970 and today, the fuel company switched from simple dyed diesel to ultra low sulfur. Still being delivered. As far as I know, all the tractors, including the 656, run on it without additives or enhancements to the tractors. Now, the 656 has another issue not related to fuel, and has not ran since late fall 2022, BUT I am confident that it will run, and continue to run, on ULSD for many many years to come.

I only treat my diesel for gelling. Nothing more.

 

[MHarryE]

I help my nephew on his dairy farm. He has added some newer tractors, but most are old Internationals, before Case bought them out in their 1984 bankruptcy. So let’s say 8 tractors 100 HP and up. He has 5 tractors 2000 to 2013. All run the same ULSD. Zero FIP problems during the 12 years I’ve worked with him. Only fuel additive he adds is Schaeffer’s Diesel Treat 2000 during the winter to prevent gelling of his #1 winter diesel. That’s because like this morning when it was -31, the cattle still need to be fed. So it’s quite a test fleet, a lot of hours.

 

[sd455dan]

Many people "have heard" of injection pump issues in old diesels using ULSD but I doubt they are true. I run it in my 1973 Ford backhoe and my father runs in his 1973 Ford dump truck with a 8V71 Detroit with zero issues.

I do know that some of the Ford tractor operator manuals specifically warn against using ULSD .
My 550 TLB for sure.
EDIT what i posted above is incorrect.

I always dump in a bit of 2 stroke oil and usually a bit of Howes into every 5 gallon can on my tractors.

 

[jyoutz]

I do know that some of the Ford tractor operator manuals specifically warn against using ULSD .
My 550 TLB for sure.
I always dump in a bit of 2 stroke oil and usually a bit of Howes into every 5 gallon can on my tractors.

I think that Ford quit making tractors long before ULSD, so how could the manuals address this?

 

[lman]

I do know that some of the Ford tractor operator manuals specifically warn against using ULSD .
My 550 TLB for sure.
I always dump in a bit of 2 stroke oil and usually a bit of Howes into every 5 gallon can on my tractors.

I would like to see your manual from 1975 that states not to use ULSD that was not available at that time.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

I think bosch is blaming ULSD for the CP4 failures

Some injection pumps are engine oil lubricated or purely fuel lubricated. Iirc VE vs P7100

 

[sd455dan]

I would like to see your manual from 1975 that states not to use ULSD that was not available at that time.

I do not believe I said 1975? I did say 550. So possibly 1978.
Manual is not where I thought it was.
As soon as I locate it, will post what the reference is in the operators manual.

 

[Cougsfan]

My 1957 TO35 has been using ULSD steadily since it came out with no additives or issues. And this tractor gets a lot of hours put on it. I think if an older tractor has problems, some people look for something to blame when the problem is really that it is just wearing out like all things do.

 

[alexpops]

Optilube XPD and syn 2 stroke added to everything diesel I own.

 

[NoTrespassing]

I'm concerned that the "powers that be" will run out of adjectives to describe how little sulfur our next generation of fuel has in it. Am I the only one with this concern? What happens when we go from 15 ppm to 5 ppm? Maybe SULSD where the first S stands for Super? (tongue firmly in cheek)

Kevin