Hydrogen infrastructure

[3930dave]

Anyway. I have completely reversed my thinking, and moved hydrogen from high risk to low risk as a fuel for running vehicles. Certainly has no more risk than running gas or diesel in a vehicle.

I'd say TBN has a (probably much higher than average) good representation of what you just displayed, but I want to say Thanks !

Intellectual curiosity and an open-mind are what topics like this really need....

Fire/explosion...... my favourite is diesel from a risk standpoint, but I might as well just chant the devil's name today......

One gasoline event sticks in my mind.... this happened in Ontario, Canada:

As much as I try to keep Situational Awareness a priority, anticipating a river of fire running down the road I'm on doesn't top my list....

I reference that, not as an anti-carbon fuel zealot (I'm not), but rather in the context of frog in boiling pan of water...... that search I just did on Ytube turned up many gasoline tanker crash - vids. To some extent, it's normalized background today....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

The X factors that combine to make a Musk a household name, only come along once in a very long time.....

IQ, Engineering talent, and a serious aversion to Sleep are just baseline requirements IMO....

Stick-handling/finessing govt regs alone, derails many other contenders......

Marketing - a huge Make/Break factor.

Consider from 200k ft level.... you are going to disrupt the primary motive technology, that's been used for 100+ years......

What will (actually) Sell ?

The electric-grid. In developed countries, most people just take it for granted, spending no more time paying attention to it than they do to breathing. HUGE normalized reliance/acceptance amongst the intended market (for EVs).

Mention Hydrogen to those same masses, what is the reflex ? People of a certain-age will think Hindenburg (I don't know enough young people to poll for their tribal-knowledge on the name....), other people, nothing at all.....

Elon (despite being an uber techy), is mentally agile enough to pay significant attention to that critical Fork in The Road issue.... OR, he's at least smart enough to listen to the people near to him, who are that Marketing savvy......

As much as I like certain aspects of Hydrogen, I can readily see that it is orders of magnitude easier to Market electric-grid plug-in solutions to a (largely technically illiterate) Mass Market today.....

Rgds, D.

 

[ArlyA]

Not following this thread but here is why Hydrogen is a pipe dream.

 

[/pine]

Not following this thread but here is why Hydrogen is a pipe dream.

LoL...search this thread for "smart money"...!

 

[Grumpycat]

Iridium spark plugs are precious.

PV electricity to split water into H2 and O2 would drive a battery EV 3x farther than a fuel cell vehicle.

 

[/pine]

There is research being done on vehicles that use fuel cells to maintain a battery's charge...basically unlimited range...no external charges needed...!

 

[5030]

Not following this thread but here is why Hydrogen is a pipe dream.

Kind of like the no charge batteries when it's frigid out. I won't be here to worry about it anyway. I'll be up there, watching and chuckling.

 

[Grumpycat]

Kind of like the no charge batteries when it's frigid out. I won't be here to worry about it anyway. I'll be up there, watching and chuckling.

Fuel cells don't work cold. Think about making water out of H2 and atmospheric oxygen? Frozen water will not flow. Another consideration is H2 under pressure will drop well below freezing when vented to a pressure that can be used in the fuel cell. LNG vehicles have this same problem, requiring a heater on the expansion valve.

In spite of the hype on the internet lithium batteries do work in the cold, they simply do not release energy as readily. They release well enough to run heaters and therein lies the source of the hyped losses. In use the battery also self-heats as the release of electrical energy is not 100% efficient.

 

[/pine]

Fuel cells don't work cold. Think about making water out of H2 and atmospheric oxygen? Frozen water will not flow. Another consideration is H2 under pressure will drop well below freezing when vented to a pressure that can be used in the fuel cell. LNG vehicles have this same problem, requiring a heater on the expansion valve.

In spite of the hype on the internet lithium batteries do work in the cold, they simply do not release energy as readily. They release well enough to run heaters and therein lies the source of the hyped losses. In use the battery also self-heats as the release of electrical energy is not 100% efficient.

FWIW...
flowing water prevents freezing...

 

[Torvy]

Fuel cells don't work cold. Think about making water out of H2 and atmospheric oxygen? Frozen water will not flow. Another consideration is H2 under pressure will drop well below freezing when vented to a pressure that can be used in the fuel cell. LNG vehicles have this same problem, requiring a heater on the expansion valve.

In spite of the hype on the internet lithium batteries do work in the cold, they simply do not release energy as readily. They release well enough to run heaters and therein lies the source of the hyped losses. In use the battery also self-heats as the release of electrical energy is not 100% efficient.

Or think about listening to the people who know rather than a random naysayer on the internet.

Do Hydrogen Fuel Cells Work in Cold Weather?

If you own a hydrogen-powered car, you might question whether hydrogen fuel cells function properly in cold climates. You’re certainly not the only one curious about this. The performance of fuel cells is greatly influenced by cold conditions. This piece will explore the advantages of hydrogen...

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