Educate me on having cattle

[Torvy]

Technically, you are correct about an open range state. BUT: see an article from Texas A&M AgriLife. " This common law, however, is not the end of the story. Although this law may be applicable in portions of the state, it is certainly not the law for all areas or all roadways in Texas. Two exceptions modify this common law rule for certain areas: stock laws and a statute pertaining to federal and state highways".
I do not want to get into a raging debate here. Just responding because I cannot even imagine NOT having my cattle fenced in! WOW. at least mine would wonder off who knows where. There are times I wish they would.

You are spot on...I didn't want to get into the entire code. I'm on a county road and cows would have a few miles to stray to get to a state/federal highway. I think most, if not all fence, but if they get out, they don't have the liability. Another reason for the post was as a reminder that what is true in one area may not be true in all.

There is a leased piece of land adjacent to us with cattle. They were out and showed up walking around where my house is now going up. Once we are on the property full-time, we will augment his fencing...we will also have a couple of Shepherds that will dissuade them. (or one GSD and another large dog)

 

[OldMcDonald]

Sorry, I had gone with Eddie's comment about keeping 6 cows. 7 head is not the worst size herd to learn on.

There is a calculation for the prime size to sell a steer to maximize price versus upkeep. I don't recall the math. My experience with Hereford steers is that they were quite docile, but I don't have your years of experience. I'd personally want to have the steer butchered and in my freezer as long as it was at a reasonable size. Either way, it was just a thought.

My understanding is he intended to get a chute and other appropriate kit for maintaining cattle on his own place.

I agree with you in general terms about starting small. I was in my 20s when I first kept breeding cows (lots of experience with smaller stock and other species) and started with 4. AI'd them when the times came. Two gates tied at one end with baler twine (no headgate) and simply squeezed them up. No problems and 100% hold to first service for 3 years.

The problem is that this is a rather unique case, and what follows is not aimed at you, but a general comment, so please do not take it personally. Eddie is not the owner of the cattle. That is important for all of us to remember. I do not know how far he has progressed with the required administration of his brother's estate, but whatever he does is fraught with financial danger for him until it is finalised. He has no authority to move, or sell, the cattle, although selling would probably be viewed as being expedient for the welfare benefit of the cattle. His opening post on his thread about his brother's estate was that there is a lot of debt. What if a creditor comes along and wants paid? Perhaps the bull has not been paid for. Or some of the cows.

Assuming the cattle, or some of them are sold. Eddie cannot sell them in his name. He cannot even be re-imbursed for the hard feed and hay he has supplied. All he can do is put in a claim against the estate for these costs, and hope for the best.

We have all been offering him advice on the supposition he ends up buying the cattle from the estate, or from his parents as the next of kin, but there is no guarantee the cattle will be available to him if a creditor wants paid and the cattle have to be sold to pay them.

Maybe it is time for us all to back off on advice until his brother's estate is finalised. That could take a while.

 

[EddieWalker]

I will be selling most of the cattle as soon as possible. The remaining 6 will be part of the estate, which will end up being mine when it's all said and done. Everything that is sold is paid for in my brothers name. I deposit those checks in the same account that is holding his mortgage. This is how his mortgage is being paid. Not having as many mouths to feed will cut down on my expenses. I'm also doing the same thing with his ducks, but that money has been used to pay for feeding the cattle.

I learned a lot today about his cattle. His friend sold him some of them and knows the people he bought the others from. He was impressed by a couple of them, which are going to be the ones I keep. On Thursday I'm going to help him work some animals. Ear tag some calves, give them shots, and check for pregnancy on some cows. I'm also looking forward to working a squeeze chute, which is something I've never done before. He has a pretty good sized operation that should show me how things are done.

I think my biggest obstacle is just being so green, and not knowing anything about cattle.

 

[Hay Dude]

I’m sure your wisdom and God will help guide you through this.
You’re a good guy and I like how you roll.
Best of luck. Keep updating us on progress.

 

[JasperFrank]

I began to hate cattle, just working on my Dad's farm. Those bastards would look for any weakness in fencing. I'd look into those dull empty eyes they have, and completely not care about them aside from the leader Cows/ Steers: Those, were more like pets. These are the Cows/Steers that have been trained to lead the rest around. Bulls are dangerous animals. We had two people killed on our farm due to bulls, and farm hands not knowing that you never stand between a bull and a stationary object.

 

[Spike56]

I began to hate cattle, just working on my Dad's farm. Those bastards would look for any weakness in fencing. I'd look into those dull empty eyes they have, and completely not care about them aside from the leader Cows/ Steers: Those, were more like pets. These are the Cows/Steers that have been trained to lead the rest around. Bulls are dangerous animals. We had two people killed on our farm due to bulls, and farm hands not knowing that you never stand between a bull and a stationary object.

I can agree with your sediment at times. Unfortunately, the only practical way to keep my AG exemption is cattle. The wildlife exemption is really even worse from the aspect of what you must do to continue having it AND it is confusing to navigate all the do's and do not's.
Strange but, I really have never had an issue at all with any bull I have owned. Steers, yes. But once they reach 500-600 lbs... gone if possible. The most problematic time is once they are in the pen and sorting to haul to an auction. You never know which heifer, cow or steer will decide to charge you. This does not happen much, but it only takes one time to ruin your day. Had a compound fracture in my right hand warding off one. Agree also they can be sneaky animals. Mostly STUPID, but at times they seem pretty crafty.

 

[Spike56]

I will be selling most of the cattle as soon as possible. The remaining 6 will be part of the estate, which will end up being mine when it's all said and done. Everything that is sold is paid for in my brothers name. I deposit those checks in the same account that is holding his mortgage. This is how his mortgage is being paid. Not having as many mouths to feed will cut down on my expenses. I'm also doing the same thing with his ducks, but that money has been used to pay for feeding the cattle.

I learned a lot today about his cattle. His friend sold him some of them and knows the people he bought the others from. He was impressed by a couple of them, which are going to be the ones I keep. On Thursday I'm going to help him work some animals. Ear tag some calves, give them shots, and check for pregnancy on some cows. I'm also looking forward to working a squeeze chute, which is something I've never done before. He has a pretty good sized operation that should show me how things are done.

I think my biggest obstacle is just being so green, and not knowing anything about cattle.

Good news for you ! Having someone with a lot of experience... you cannot beat that. For me at least, experiences like you are undertaking, working with someone is terrific, but *can* be misleading. What I mean is, working with someone is great, but I found myself thinking "that went well, I can do that". Then by myself, I realized it was easy because there were (2) of us, and the person had the tools and equipment needed. Guess that is just human nature.
All the best of luck. Guess the good news is, if you keep them and decide they are too much trouble, you can just sell them off.
Many of my personal experiences are about the same - Being Green, wanting to do something, making mistakes, realizing I need to buy / do more than I thought.

 

[Torvy]

Unfortunately, the only practical way to keep my AG exemption is cattle.

For us, it is timber. I know a lot of people on small acreages in the city with 11 head of cattle for that exemption.

 

[newbury]

Bulls are dangerous animals. We had two people killed on our farm due to bulls, and farm hands not knowing that you never stand between a bull and a stationary object.

Bulls are not safe until they are on a dinner plate.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Never had a problem with our Hereford bulls.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I'm not a livestock guy, but have known small cattle operators who managed to make a profit with good pasture and good marketing. Grass fed and pasture/hay finished beef claims a big premium in price over auction prices. We are fortunate enough to have a local USDA inspected slaughterhouse, so halves and quarters can be freezer wrapped and sold directly to customers. I have a neighbor who sells about 40 head a year that way, around the middle of May when the pasture starts to dry out. He's third generation on that land and has established a customer base over the years. He pastures about 1000 acres, 360 that he owns and 640 on an adjacent BLM lease. He has about 100-120 acres of flat ground that he takes one cutting of hay from.

Maintaining miles of fence through rugged country is a job. He runs pack mules to get the materials around and guides hunting trips in season for extra income, so the mules work for a living too.

Another small operator I knew (online) was a woman in the Midwest who had a freezer truck and took beef to the local farmer's market for sale. Her operation was smaller. I don't know how many head she raised, but they were pasture and grain finished. She was profitable, but a divorce ran her out of the business.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Never had a problem with our Hereford bills.

It's the dairy bulls that are dangerous. Holstein bulls kill about 3 dairy farmers a year, on average. Beef bulls are more laid back.

 

[bigtiller]

I began to hate cattle, just working on my Dad's farm. Those bastards would look for any weakness in fencing. I'd look into those dull empty eyes they have, and completely not care about them aside from the leader Cows/ Steers: Those, were more like pets. These are the Cows/Steers that have been trained to lead the rest around. Bulls are dangerous animals. We had two people killed on our farm due to bulls, and farm hands not knowing that you never stand between a bull and a stationary object.

I have never been around any size of cattle ranch but I know bulls are temperamental at best. But why should I "never stand between a bull and a stationary object"?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I have never been around any size of cattle ranch but I know bulls are temperamental at best. But why should I "never stand between a bull and a stationary object"?

Hydrostatic shock. Your organs will squirt out of every orifice.

 

[LouNY]

It's the dairy bulls that are dangerous. Holstein bulls kill about 3 dairy farmers a year, on average. Beef bulls are more laid back.

Oh heck every large critter is dangerous. I've been around livestock all my life. I have know a couple of people who got killed by livestock.
One was a bull that was a pet, guy was cleaning his pen and the bull swung his head back to see him and get some attention and crushed him against the stall wall. One was a beef cow with a calve that had gotten hung in some fence, he got the calf loose the calf started bleating and the cow attacked him he died a couple days later. Another was a man walking behind a horse that got kicked and died.
Oh almost forgot had a neigbor 5-7 years ago got killed by a young heifer, she was being herded and made a break for a gap were he was standing and rammed him into the gate he was standinging in front of, Just a yearling Holstien heifer.

I certainly wouldn't say that Holstien bulls are more aggressive then an Angus bull.
And neither of them is as aggresive as an Angus cow with a new calf.

I have even see some Holstien cows that you wouldn't turn your back on after they calve, while most of them will let you walk up to it, pick it up and carry it with the cow just following.
The Angus beefers on the farm now will be on top of you if you try and handle a calf.

 

[OldMcDonald]

I think my biggest obstacle is just being so green, and not knowing anything about cattle.

Knowing that you do not know things is the best starting point. I am sure your life experiences will get you there quicker than most folks. I do note you are doing the right thing regarding the estate. I reckoned you would be, but some following this thread might not have been aware of the situatio

I certainly wouldn't say that Holstien bulls are more aggressive then an Angus bull.
And neither of them is as aggresive as an Angus cow with a new calf.

I was once on a horse that was felled by a Holstein bull. I thought he was coming back for me!

Having said that, I am not personally aware of anyone killed or even attacked by a bull, but I knew of two men killed by Hereford cows. I have always been told, and believe it, that cows of any breed are more dangerous than bulls of any breed, especially if they have a calf. Never get between a cow and its calf. Whenever possible I used to work pairs in the yards on horseback when in Australia - big yards. In the UK with quieter cattle and small yards it was usually possible to do the work on foot, but only me in the yard.

 

[MossRoad]

I knew a girl in high school who's parents had a farm. They had a bull. It came over to the fence and she rubbed and scratched it's nose. Really docile. She said if I went in the pen in with it that it would kill me. She said it only hated men. Her dad, uncles, brother... but she and her mom could handle it no problems.

I looked at it and it gave me the side-eye.... point taken.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

It's the dairy bulls that are dangerous. Holstein bulls kill about 3 dairy farmers a year, on average. Beef bulls are more laid back.

Dairy bulls? Got horned into a manure pit by a holstein bull. Never knew they where more agressive than beef bulls.
The joke was, he was trying to make me look and smell bad.

 

[JasperFrank]

Eddiewalker, just be glad you didn't get any of these.
They are the entire reason why the ancient Romans created Hadrian's Wall.

 

[oosik]

I have lived for 42+ years in the middle of ranchers with cattle. One large rancher on my north - another on my south. There is NO WAY I would wish to have anything to do with raising cattle. Not at my age - 80.

From what I've seen it's a never ending job. 24/7/365. Fencing - feeding - rearing - vet services - weather concerns - unexpected costs - grazing concerns. It is a constant job with so very many pit falls.

Around here it's a family business. Passed down from father to son - etc. VERY FEW go directly into ranching as an initial business venture.

The two ranching families on my North and South are, probably, good examples. The cattle ranch on the North has been passed down thru, at least, four generations of the same family. One of the sons is now taking over this operation.

The rancher on the south has INSISTED that his son graduate college and take up some other form of occupation. He does not want his son to take up ranching and follow in his foot steps.