First Tractor Purchase - Looking for advice

[daltonhawk]

I’m looking to make my first tractor purchase and I could use a little advice. We have 10 acres which is about half trees, half garden and field, somewhat hilly. Here’s what I’m looking to do with the tractor:

-loading logs on the sawmill
-moving cut beams, lumber stacks etc.
-running a woodchipper (bought a used bearcat 70554 already, requires 25HP PTO
-maintaining 0.25mile driveway, needs grading and some more gravel
-construction projects
-Cutting 2 acre field that’s too rough for lawn mower.
-Skidding logs
-moving firewood
-moving woodchips, mulch, compost etc.

I started thinking that for all the loader work I should look for something with HST but looking at used tractors there’s really nothing that makes sense, all the used HST tractors are almost as much a new and many of them have very weak loaders that won’t pickup much of a log. Then I started looking at a new Kioti CK3510H which has a respectable 1800Lb loader capacity and noticed the same dealer also has a LS MT235E HST with an LL3302 loader rated for 2150Lbs. Next I started looking at the Branson 3015H which has a 2200Lb loader capacity. I probably would have bought the Branson already but nobody near me has one in stock which sent me back to looking at used again and I noticed a low hour MF 135 with an MF 34 loader that’s rated for a whopping 5000Lbs and also a MF 235 with a big loader nearby.

So I’m wondering if one of these old Massy Ferguson machines would be good for my situation or if the 2WD and clutch would be too irritating with all the loader/forklift work I’d like to do (plus no quick attach.) I also don’t have time for another project so whatever I buy needs to spend a lot more time working than being worked on. The compact tractors might get a little tippy with long logs on them but I don’t need to lift them very high so worst cast I’d probably just bump one end of the log against the ground right?

I’d like to spend about 10K cash or 25K financed so I can keep more money in the bank for some building projects. What machine makes the most sense for my situation?

 

[jeff9366]

-loading logs on the sawmill

How much do your logs weigh?


-running a woodchipper (bought a used bearcat 70554 already, requires 25HP PTO)

minimum 25-hp/PTO or maximum 25-hp/PTO?

 

[daltonhawk]

I just ran a calculator on the log I was sawing last night and it came in at 1660Lbs. Some are heavier. I have an old knuckle boom truck I load logs with, but it's pretty slow chaining each log, picking it up with the boom, chaining the beam after it's cut, loading it on the back of the truck, driving over to where I'm keeping them, unloading. I can keep using the truck for the really heavy ones but it would speed things up to be able to move the smaller ones on forks. 2000Lbs seems like it would handle most of them.

Power range for the chipper is 25-45-hp/PTO.

 

[rScotty]

Doing what you are, if I wanted to spend 10 to 15K I think this is a pretty good time to buy used larger equipment.
You are talking about some long, heavy, and tippy logs and building materials. This is a good time for larger.

In particular I would look at a Case 580 backhoe/loader or a John Deere 310 pre-"G" series. The 580 Case has a reputation for being home & rancher friendly, and the JD is probably the world's most popular backhoe/loader. I'd look roughly in the 1995 to 2005 era and under 5000 hrs. That old will usually be manual 4 speed shift combined with a power reverser and a torque converter. Very bulletproof. 2wd of course. Has no emissions and no computer. The problem there is always finding a good one, although even an average one will do your work. Put a thumb on the hoe is a wonderful thing for picking up and placing heavy things accurately.
But I would be very careful not to buy a junker or needing work. Your budget is enough to buy a good honest machine in either of those that is old and tired but still will work for what you need. Old but usable machines are a drag on the selling market today. Most people want new.

It may have a cab, everything should work including heater and batteries for that price. I always expect to replace tires. That's roughly $1000 for 4 if the tire shop does it all. A full fluid and filter change is another $500.
Those machines will lift over 5000 lbs without getting tippy.
The trick is finding a good one like I said. I'd stay away from anything advertised for sale. Instead, I'd go ask at a few shops.
Check you local school district shop, the local utility provider's shop, and maybe some larger churches. All of those tend to have good older machines. I'd stay away from auctions, sales, or been used for road construction. That still leaves lots of good ones. Oh, and ask the shop foreman at your local yellow JD and or Case dealer. They just might know of one.
I do better asking in the shop than asking salesmen.

I did that, and was directed to an old farmer who had an old yellow backhoe loader that the dealer knew about and also knew the old boy didn't use for much. It was easy to arrange a change of ownership.
rScotty

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Power range for the chipper is 25-45-hp/PTO.

My two cents is you ideally want to at least be in the middle of that range. I would not purchase a tractor with the bare minimum PTO hp.

 

[cathy liebchen]

That budget is low so look at machines at least 20 years old

 

[jeff9366]

I’m looking to make my first tractor purchase.

We have 10 acres in Oregon (wet/western? - dry/eastern?) which is somewhat hilly.

I’m wondering if an old Massy Ferguson 135/235 would be good for my situation or if the 2WD and clutch would be too irritating with all the loader/forklift work I’d like to do.

I’d like to spend about 10K cash or 25K financed.

Most first time tractor owner/operators are disagreeably surprised, repeatedly, during the first 200 engine hours of tractor operation.

Tractors do not have front brakes. Moving downhill with 2-WD, when tractor weight is primarily on the front wheels, you sometimes have almost zero wheel braking. You may have to back down steep hills.

4-WD, when engaged, gives a tractor something resembling four wheel brakes.

It is sometimes difficult to fill the FEL bucket with 2-WD.

Virtually all old 2-WD tractors have rear tires filled with liquid for ballast, paired with R1/ag tires. This combination can rut moist soil.

If you decide to proceed with older machines, evaluate rear tires carefully. Replacing rear tires and often corroded rims may increase your purchase cost by 50%. Rear tire replacement time is often the catalyst for old tractor sales.

A great deal was accomplished with those MF135/235s but a great deal of design progress has occurred in the ensuing 50 years.

 

[jaxs]

The 135 and 235 are both great machines but unless you can evaluate condition,you should have an experienced individual look at them with you or pay a mechanic to check them out. I've been around and used both since they were new and they have a good reputation. Gas and diesel models are equally good with diesel lasting 2-3 times as long which trure of most tractors. You will note the Mf 65 in my sig so that tells you something. For durability I much prefer 6 speed geared over Multi Power. Be advised that multi-power doesn't equate to shuttle shift or anything similar. If you will be moving,loading logs for hours at a time I suggest a more modern tractor with shuttle shift or similar. Otherwise the MF geared (3 speed F &1 speed R and Hi/LO stick = 6F&2R) in 1+low has plenty power to push into/under load and shifting to R+hi is plenty fast backing out then 1 or 2 hi will cover ground to when load is dumped. Origional hydraulics are slow when running loader so if they don't have a crank driven pump,budget having one installed.
The earliest Ford I'd recommend is the 4cyl 4000 because everything before had lousy power steering or non and didn't have life pto. The earliest Deere would be a "New Generation" model which in your power range would be 1020/43hp,1520/47hp,2020/59hp.
I have little experience with tractors built overseas but not including those with domestic badges, farmers around me have more Kubota than all others combined.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

farmers around me have more Kubota than all others combined.

Any particular reason why?

 

[mikester]

Buy an old ford 9N 2wd without loader. Use it for two years. Then test drive some new tractors.

You won't need to ask other people what you want at that point.

 

[jeff9366]

Buy an old ford 9N 2wd without loader. Use it for two years.

The compact tractor era began when Henry Ford licensed Harry Ferguson's tractor and Three Point Hitch (TPH) patents in 1939. After 1955, when Ferguson's patents serially expired, the tractor industry consolidated around the Ferguson TPH driven by customer preference.

Improvements in approximate order: Power Steering, "live" then "independent" PTOs, Rollover Protection, 4-WD, R4/industrial tires, Loaders, synchromesh geared transmissions, diesel engines, heavier tractors with Category 2-3-4-5 TPH, Landscaping tractors of <2,000 pounds bare tractor weight, hydrostatic transmissions, shuttle shift gear transmissions, cruise control, Cabs with heat and AC, FELs and FEL attachments with SSQA. And, continuously, shields separating operator from moving parts.

JethroB - 9/24/2021​

True about mechanics and local parts. My 2018 Kubota went to the dealership for a service this week so I put a new battery in the old MF 135 and dragged some brush. Old school was fun for about an hour. Then the stiff two stage clutch straight down clutch and the getting gassed by the under rear axle diesel exhaust began to wear on me. Tough 40-ish HP brute though. I’m ready for my Kubota L4760 to come home.

 

[dodge man]

This is a friends tractor. JD 5310, it’s around 20 years old. It’s a clutch and stick shift. I personally wouldn’t want that system but he is good with it to the point you would swear it’s an HST. The advantage of something like this used is it’s around 60 hp and 2500 pounds of lift capacity.

About loader capacity. Look at the specs carefully. The lift I quoted above is at the pins. Sometimes they list the lift so many inches in front of the pins. In the real world you aren’t lifting at the loader pins but things in the bucket or on forks. Just make sure you know how the loader is speced.

 

[rbstern]

Dalton, I do many of the same tasks you have listed, with an LS MT225e. The only place I feel my tractor comes up short is on big logs, where I run out of lift capacity. For those, I have a log arch, and constructed my sawmill setup in such a way that I can back logs onto the sawmill with the arch.

Here's my take, feature wise:

4WD: Must have. Makes the tractor capable of far more work, particularly with the box blade for grading; I have a 0.6 mile gravel driveway. In slippery conditions, a 4WD tractor will keep working where a 2WD tractor can't get traction. Helps with skidding, too.

Manual vs. HST transmission: I have gotten used to the manual (synchro shift style) on mine, do not mind doing loader work with it at all. HST would be nice at times, but I prefer not giving up the horsepower to HST. There are a couple of very specific applications where HST is close to a requirement, such as stump grinding.

PTO HP: I use a BX42 clone for chipping. I've never stalled the LS using the chipper up to it's max capacity. I have broken shear pins. Larger chipper, I'd want more PTO HP.

Chassis size/weight. The bigger the better. I bought the MT225e with the frame mounted backhoe, which adds about 1500lbs of very low CG, well distributed weight. Tractor is incredibly stable with it mounted. Similar results can be accomplished with a 3pt ballast box.

The downside to bigger chassis is maneuverability in the woods. My first tractor was a 2WD Yanmar 2210, no FEL. Still have it and use it for a lot of things. It's much more nimble in the woods than the LS. Sometimes, if conditions demand/permit, I skid logs with it.

 

[sea2summit]

Routinely lifting a 1,600 lbs log I would want a whole lot of tractor. You have the actual lift weight but you also have odd lateral forces when the tractor tips from one side to the other. Honestly if that's a primary job you'd probably be better off with a skid steer, if it's only occasional then just take it really slow with a tractor.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

I have some guidelines that make purchase decisions easier for me.

• Don’t finance toys or hobbies.
• Don’t buy anything until I have proven I can’t accomplish the things I want to with what I already have.
• Don’t buy what I can rent
• A dollar spent today is a dollar that you can’t spend tomorrow. As long as the money is still in your pocket you still have options.
• If I have any difficulting figuring out what to buy then it’s not time to buy yet

 

[jeff9366]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single specification.​

Kioti CK3510 Dimensions​

Kioti CK3510 Weight
Gear ROPS :	2679 lbs 1215 kg
Hydro ROPS :	2734 lbs 1240 kg
Hydro Cab :	3307 lbs 1500 kg

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	65.7 inches 166 cm
Length:	120.9 inches 307 cm
Width:	55.1 inches 139 cm (R1)

Too light to lift 1,800 pounds or more safely.

LS MT235E Dimensions​

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	69 inches 175 cm
Length:	121 inches 307 cm
Width:	54 inches 137 cm
Height (ROPS):	88 inches 223 cm
Shuttle Weight:	2866 lbs 1300 kg
Hydro Weight:	2870 lbs 1301 kg

Too light to lift 1,800 pounds or more safely.

Branson 3015H Dimensions​

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	65.8 inches 167 cm
Length:	118 inches 299 cm
Width:	57 inches 144 cm
Height (ROPS):	94 inches 238 cm
Weight:	3014 lbs 1367 kg
Ground clearance:	12 inches 30 cm

Too light to lift 1,800 pounds or more safely.
Best weight and width of the inadequate three.

 

[rbstern]

Kioti CK3510 Dimensions​

Kioti CK3510 Weight
Gear ROPS :	2679 lbs 1215 kg
Hydro ROPS :	2734 lbs 1240 kg
Hydro Cab :	3307 lbs 1500 kg

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	65.7 inches 166 cm
Length:	120.9 inches 307 cm
Width:	55.1 inches 139 cm (R1)

Too light to lift 1,660 pounds or more safely.

Too simplistic an answer. The specifics of a particular task are important.

If he's got good ballast, and he's only lifting well balanced loads, not high off the ground, to move at low speeds, he would be fine. That's typical for moving logs around a sawmill, assuming the sawmill is not on a trailer.

No, he wouldn't want to be hoisting a heavy log like that above the CG of the tractor.

 

[3gunr]

I have a MF 255 with a loader and it can lift a lot of weight but it is very hard on those front spindles 2 wd tractors were not meant for heavy loads hanging out front, 40 to 50 hp 4x4 will suffice.

 

[daltonhawk]

Thank you everyone for the input. It's given me a lot to think about. I would be afraid to lift the rated capacity to full height on any of these compact tractors, especially a 20+ foot log, but I don't think I'll need to lift them more than a few feet.

I did find a Branson 3615H available in state which would stretch my budget but also up the loader capacity to 2700Lbs.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Best Kubota & Other Tractors For Small Farm - Justagric

Here is some general info on farm tractors.