First Tractor Purchase - Looking for advice

[daltonhawk]

Dalton, I do many of the same tasks you have listed, with an LS MT225e. The only place I feel my tractor comes up short is on big logs, where I run out of lift capacity. For those, I have a log arch, and constructed my sawmill setup in such a way that I can back logs onto the sawmill with the arch.

Looking around, I saw your barn project and that you had the LS so thanks for adding your thoughts. Even though the LS website states that the MT225-235 come with the LL3301 loader, the machines I've seen for sale locally have the LL3302 loader which adds about 500Lbs capacity, not sure if that's something the local dealers are choosing or something LS is doing to keep up with Branson and just haven't gotten around to updating the website. It seems like if you're happy with the size and capability and just wish for a little more loader capacity, this might be a good option for me. It's hard to spot a difference between the loaders so I'm not sure what they're doing to increase the capacity, maybe the cylinders are just slightly larger.

Buying/building a log arch is on my wish list but I built a shed over my mill and it's stationary so I probably won't be able to use it for loading.

 

[jeff9366]

It's hard to spot a difference between the loaders so I'm not sure what they're doing to increase the capacity, maybe the cylinders are just slightly larger.

Or, maybe, steel has been eliminated from the FEL. Lower FEL weight = greater payload, perhaps at the cost of longevity. Loaders with "spec" lift capacity of close to one ton on compact tractors vary in weight from 900 pounds to 1,300 pounds.

Alternatively, the lift height may be reduced by shortening the boom, which increases lift capacity at the expense of lift height AND lightens the FEL.

Or, maybe, the cylinders are just slightly larger. Which means the cylinders take longer to fill, slowing FEL lift.

Research until you drop.

 

[milkman636]

Here’s my advice:

The HST is a game changer for moving and placing things precisely. I’d say the improvement over feathering the clutch of the gear drive and jabbing the brakes is comparable to using a filet knife to clean a fish instead of a machete.

Don’t skimp on loader lift capacity. Do the math on everything you think you’ll need to move. Nothing will be more frustrating than pulling up to something you bought the tractor to move and finding out you can’t do it.

Independent PTO operation is also a huge improvement over the live and transmission driven ones. Making sure it has independent PTO will be doing yourself a favor also.

Quick change on the loader is also important. Being able to switch attachments in a minute vastly increases the versatility and usability of your investment.

Personally I’d steer you towards a 40+hp class machine. There are some good value models in that range that offer a lot of lift and hydraulic capacity.

 

[RjCorazza]

The few times I've maxed out my loader I have been very uncomfortable with the load. My machine is rated at about 1700lbs 500mm forward of the pins to a height of 1.5 m. I would not want to routinely lift that kind of weight.

 

[rbstern]

Looking around, I saw your barn project and that you had the LS so thanks for adding your thoughts. Even though the LS website states that the MT225-235 come with the LL3301 loader, the machines I've seen for sale locally have the LL3302 loader which adds about 500Lbs capacity, not sure if that's something the local dealers are choosing or something LS is doing to keep up with Branson and just haven't gotten around to updating the website. It seems like if you're happy with the size and capability and just wish for a little more loader capacity, this might be a good option for me. It's hard to spot a difference between the loaders so I'm not sure what they're doing to increase the capacity, maybe the cylinders are just slightly larger.

Buying/building a log arch is on my wish list but I built a shed over my mill and it's stationary so I probably won't be able to use it for loading.

That extra 500lbs of capacity would come in handy. If I'm really in a pinch to lift a log, I can take off the bucket and just use short straps on the lift arms. My saw is ground level, which means I only need a log about 1 foot off the ground to get in on the mill. I could probably do 1200 to 1300 pounds in that mode. Creeping around in 1st gear with a log like that, held low, on level ground, is not a problem at all. Carrying it out of the woods is another matter altogether. I have the Woodland Mills HM-122, so I max out at 22" logs, which keeps the weight manageable.

If you are going to use the tractor to feed the mill, you may want to factor a grapple into the mix, at least as part of a long term plan. I hop on and off the tractor a lot for log strap work, which would not be necessary with a grapple.

And get yourself a ballast box, and consider getting your tires ballasted. Low slung weight makes everything feel more stable.

Here's the log arch project thread:

https://tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/log-arch-need-some-suggestions.425380/

 

[Torvy]

Unfortunately, it is a bad time to want an inexpensive, but capable tractor. I'm right there with you.

A couple of things:
are you a capable mechanic? If not, you may want to sell some plasma and boost your budget a bit to get a new tractor.

The lift height at the pins problem only matters if you are trying to pick up something with a known weight. (And don't understand basic physics) It is a red herring used by people who favor brands with lower lift capacities to downplay their disadvantage. The reason it is used is to get a consistent point for comparison (and to make the numbers sound bigger).

Branson, Kioti and LS all make capable machines. Due the math on your trees and lift jobs. I want a loader than can easily lift my common loads.

In an inflationary period, there is no problem with financing as your asset will effectively appreciate due to rising prices. Of course, this assumes that your income is not cut off due to pending recession. Better to have your money working for you than shrinking in the bank due to inflation.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

It's hard to spot a difference between the loaders so I'm not sure what they're doing to increase the capacity, maybe the cylinders are just slightly larger.

Or, maybe, steel has been eliminated from the FEL. Lower FEL weight = greater payload, perhaps at the cost of longevity. Loaders with "spec" lift capacity of close to one ton on compact tractors vary in weight from 900 pounds to 1,300 pounds.

Alternatively, the lift height may be reduced by shortening the boom, which increases lift capacity at the expense of lift height AND lightens the FEL.

Or, maybe, the cylinders are just slightly larger. Which means the cylinders take longer to fill, slowing FEL lift.

Research until you drop.

What you and Neil are saying is the consumer needs to research this implement like they would any other. It's not as simple as just looking at lift capacity numbers alone.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

In an inflationary period, there is no problem with financing as your asset will effectively appreciate due to rising prices.

Unless the finance costs are stupid high. Then when the market turns the other way you lose.

 

[9035768HM]

Buy bigger than you think you’ll need

 

[WVH1977]

It is good you are doing diligent research and asking questions but I think you overthinking the loader capacity. The compact range loader capacity is only going to be so much before you have to step up to a utility size tractor. The differences of loader capacity on some of these machines at the same HP is not going to be life changing. If you are really concerned about lifting power then maybe an older Mid-80's to 90's, 50 to 75 HP utility tractor.

Think of it like this, if you where going to be pulling 10,000 pounds 5 days a week would you want a F-150 that has the max tow rating of 10,000 pounds or step up to the F-250 Super Duty that is designed for that purpose (just guessing at towing numbers here). These specs are MAX specs they are putting in these brochures. Keep that in mind. It is there to get your attention.

Also, if you base everything on loader capacity you might end up with a machine you don't like. You need to look at the machine as a whole. I have 40HP New Holland TC40 and can pick up 14 ft long, 14 to 18 inch diameter oak logs and move them around. I don't raise them up high but 3 to 4 ft off the ground. I think my loader is rated for 1800 lbs. but it feels plenty strong for most things I do but it is limited.

I would be more concerned about getting a good grapple bucket or forks if you plan on a lot of log moving/sawmilling. Make sure you have a bucket with hydraulic remote or get one installed right away. 4x4 would also be on the top of my list.

 

[jeff9366]

Buy bigger heavier than you think you’ll need.

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Buy bigger heavier than you think you’ll need.

I have a negating corollary to that rule. “First time buyers almost always think they need more tractor than they really need”

 

[sea2summit]

First time buyers will always by the tractor they think they need within their abilities, and I bet 99.5% of the time that's not the optimal tractor for them. Sometimes it's what you don't know, sometimes it's a new task, sometimes it's local dealers, ability to transport it with their current vehicle/trailer combo, weight, hp, attachments....But I bet the most common is budget.

 

[3gunr]

Budget now for sure , Tractor prices here are as much as 5to7 thousand more than two yrs ago, My buddy and i have same Hp tractors of similar size but his will lift and move way more weight than mine .We have tested them side by side on several projects and i was very surprised at what his could do.If you can afford it buy bigger,

 

[rScotty]

View attachment 744826
This is a friends tractor. JD 5310, it’s around 20 years old. It’s a clutch and stick shift. I personally wouldn’t want that system but he is good with it to the point you would swear it’s an HST. The advantage of something like this used is it’s around 60 hp and 2500 pounds of lift capacity.

About loader capacity. Look at the specs carefully. The lift I quoted above is at the pins. Sometimes they list the lift so many inches in front of the pins. In the real world you aren’t lifting at the loader pins but things in the bucket or on forks. Just make sure you know how the loader is speced.

Dalton, this was back on message #12. If I was doing the work you are describing this is EXACTLY the kind of tractor I'd be looking for and hoping to find. Not beat up, 4wd, JD, powerful, manual tranny & clutch, and 20 years old. Look at that heavy front drive axle... & it even has decent tires. Smallish loader, but heavy 3pt lift. My guess is it will go for somewhere at the top of your dollar range.
rSoctty

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Budget now for sure , Tractor prices here are as much as 5to7 thousand more than two yrs ago, My buddy and i have same Hp tractors of similar size but his will lift and move way more weight than mine .We have tested them side by side on several projects and i was very surprised at what his could do.If you can afford it buy bigger,

My tractor mechanic is doing a deep dive on our Massey Ferguson 265 the wife's Dad bought new in 1976. Compared to our Ford 3000 and 3600 this tractor is massive more of a work horse in part due to it's weight.

The tractor is not mint but only has 1500 actual hours. I was discussing with him the cost of this deep dive with the view it will me staying in the family.

He said when he finishes with no internal engine or transmission work or new paint he could find a buyer at $15,000. Blew my mind because that is at least 2x what it sold for new.

 

[rScotty]

So without the "deep dive" how did it work at 1500 hours and what would be your estimate of a selling price?

 

[etpm]

Doing what you are, if I wanted to spend 10 to 15K I think this is a pretty good time to buy used larger equipment.
You are talking about some long, heavy, and tippy logs and building materials. This is a good time for larger.

In particular I would look at a Case 580 backhoe/loader or a John Deere 310 pre-"G" series. The 580 Case has a reputation for being home & rancher friendly, and the JD is probably the world's most popular backhoe/loader. I'd look roughly in the 1995 to 2005 era and under 5000 hrs. That old will usually be manual 4 speed shift combined with a power reverser and a torque converter. Very bulletproof. 2wd of course. Has no emissions and no computer. The problem there is always finding a good one, although even an average one will do your work. Put a thumb on the hoe is a wonderful thing for picking up and placing heavy things accurately.
But I would be very careful not to buy a junker or needing work. Your budget is enough to buy a good honest machine in either of those that is old and tired but still will work for what you need. Old but usable machines are a drag on the selling market today. Most people want new.

It may have a cab, everything should work including heater and batteries for that price. I always expect to replace tires. That's roughly $1000 for 4 if the tire shop does it all. A full fluid and filter change is another $500.
Those machines will lift over 5000 lbs without getting tippy.
The trick is finding a good one like I said. I'd stay away from anything advertised for sale. Instead, I'd go ask at a few shops.
Check you local school district shop, the local utility provider's shop, and maybe some larger churches. All of those tend to have good older machines. I'd stay away from auctions, sales, or been used for road construction. That still leaves lots of good ones. Oh, and ask the shop foreman at your local yellow JD and or Case dealer. They just might know of one.
I do better asking in the shop than asking salesmen.

I did that, and was directed to an old farmer who had an old yellow backhoe loader that the dealer knew about and also knew the old boy didn't use for much. It was easy to arrange a change of ownership.
rScotty

I have a Case 580 CK backhoe/loader from the mid 70s. Even though it was beat up when I bought it I have used it for tons of stuff. One great feature is the Shuttle Shift. This allows going from forward to reverse and back again without using the clutch. I cannot stress enough how useful this feature is. I also have a Yanmar YM2310. It has the Power Shift feature which is similar to the Shuttle Shift in that it doesn't require using the clutch to go from forward to reverse and back again. It also allows shifting to 3 forward speeds without clutching. The main 5 speed tranny feeds the Power Shift, so there are 15 forward speeds and 5 reverse speeds. Any tractor you get should have some sort of way to go from forward to reverse and back without stepping on the clutch.
Eric

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Besides front end shimmy, diesel flowing out of injection pump and the right rear wheel locking up if the right brake was tapped it was Okay for a $5000 tractor.

 

[5030]

I have a negating corollary to that rule. “First time buyers almost always think they need more tractor than they really need”

Just the opposite holds true for me. When you buy a weenie tractor, it will always be a weenie tractor. I always by larger than what I need. That way I'm never plagued by the weenie syndrome.